To everyone who is angry with the establishment or political correctness

BlueBirdMB

Please read if you have a chance: http://www.theblaze.com/contributions/dear-trump-fan-so-you-want-someone-to-tell-it-like-it-is-ok-here-you-go/

BlueBirdMB

Folks, I AM angry.  I am so angry that I am willing to set my anger aside to see and think clearly for the sake of our country.  I pray that you will do so as well. 

vlagrl29

How did it get to this point where people are fed up with both sides and have almost given up hope like my mom who says they are all just trying to make us all on an equal level of poor.  There are more independents now than I think there ever has been.

short+sassy

vlagrl29 said:

How did it get to this point where people are fed up with both sides and have almost given up hope like my mom who says they are all just trying to make us all on an equal level of poor.  There are more independents now than I think there ever has been.

I always find it interesting that, specifically in regards to this board, we have regular posters who range from pretty liberal to pretty conservative...but we are all united in our fear, disgust, and dislike of Trump.  That says volumes to me in just how bad he is.

I do like that the article gave a nod to Judge Judy for president.  They may have said it tongue in cheek, but I'd jump on her bandwagon.  She's awesome and I admire her.  Not even from her show, though I like it, but I've also read her books and seen footage of her on the bench before she was the famous "Judge Judy".  She is just hard tacks and common sense.

I suspect she is also way, way too smart to ever get involved in a major political office.

MommyLiberty5013

Dang wow dang. It perfectly states how I feel. Can we all post this to our FBs now?!???!??!?

snp605

vlagrl29 said:

How did it get to this point where people are fed up with both sides and have almost given up hope like my mom who says they are all just trying to make us all on an equal level of poor.  There are more independents now than I think there ever has been.

This is probably where I fall right now. I don't love Trump. I am however sick of political correctness and how it has completely stalled out any sort of progress we can make on things that matter. I AM sick of the criticisms of Trump and his philandering or off hand comments or whatever social faux pas he has made that day. It's not because I don't believe they happened but because it doesn't matter in the current climate. I don't think Government is the one responsible for fixing every social "ill" that comes along. My definition of harassment or discrimination or aggression might be totally different than someone else's. I don't look to the government to tell me where to step next especially in my personal life. All of this stuff about dirty tricks and staffers who were wrongdoing all of the candidates is so much of a snooze fest. Why are we talking about who offended a rich female journalist or if some random thing they said is borderline racist or who is trying to impose their religion on us or how someone couldn't get something done because of this or that sitting president. None of that is at all is in any way as urgent an issue as our crushing tax system or failing healthcare initiative or a focused gameplan on combatting terrorisim. Quite frankly, you could screw 20 interns on the Resolute Desk and thumb your nose at the bible on national tv but if I thought you get our tax situation to where it doesn't suck the life and innovation out of business and you keep a firm grip on the terrorists that want to annihilate me and my kids I could probably hold my nose and vote for you for president.

The thing Trump really has going for him is that at least I can't say that he's been in office already and not done anything but things that would promote himself on my taxpayer dime like the rest of the field. I won't be voting for Trump because he seems like a douchebag who, even when he is being politically incorrect, doesn't even seem to believe his own words. Right now, short of the libertarian candidate turning out to be a  secret communist pedophile, they will probably get my vote.

MommyLiberty5013

Yeah. I put it on my FB.

nkjacobsma

snp605 said:

vlagrl29 said:

How did it get to this point where people are fed up with both sides and have almost given up hope like my mom who says they are all just trying to make us all on an equal level of poor.  There are more independents now than I think there ever has been.

This is probably where I fall right now. I don't love Trump. I am however sick of political correctness and how it has completely stalled out any sort of progress we can make on things that matter. I AM sick of the criticisms of Trump and his philandering or off hand comments or whatever social faux pas he has made that day. It's not because I don't believe they happened but because it doesn't matter in the current climate. I don't think Government is the one responsible for fixing every social "ill" that comes along. My definition of harassment or discrimination or aggression might be totally different than someone else's. I don't look to the government to tell me where to step next especially in my personal life. All of this stuff about dirty tricks and staffers who were wrongdoing all of the candidates is so much of a snooze fest. Why are we talking about who offended a rich female journalist or if some random thing they said is borderline racist or who is trying to impose their religion on us or how someone couldn't get something done because of this or that sitting president. None of that is at all is in any way as urgent an issue as our crushing tax system or failing healthcare initiative or a focused gameplan on combatting terrorisim. Quite frankly, you could screw 20 interns on the Resolute Desk and thumb your nose at the bible on national tv but if I thought you get our tax situation to where it doesn't suck the life and innovation out of business and you keep a firm grip on the terrorists that want to annihilate me and my kids I could probably hold my nose and vote for you for president.

The thing Trump really has going for him is that at least I can't say that he's been in office already and not done anything but things that would promote himself on my taxpayer dime like the rest of the field. I won't be voting for Trump because he seems like a douchebag who, even when he is being politically incorrect, doesn't even seem to believe his own words. Right now, short of the libertarian candidate turning out to be a  secret communist pedophile, they will probably get my vote.

I had just read this article before coming on here. I think that how a presidential candidate conducts himself publically and privately is important. I do want a POTUS who has generally good values across the board. He/she doesn't have to be a Christian, but if a candidate is up there saying racist things, performing sleezy campaign tactics, and throws lots of fits over everything, he/she will probably be a racist, sleezy candidates who throws fits whenever he doesn't get his way. I want a President to conduct himself/herself with grace, dignity, and honesty. 

MommyLiberty5013

nkjacobsma said:

snp605 said:

vlagrl29 said:

How did it get to this point where people are fed up with both sides and have almost given up hope like my mom who says they are all just trying to make us all on an equal level of poor.  There are more independents now than I think there ever has been.

This is probably where I fall right now. I don't love Trump. I am however sick of political correctness and how it has completely stalled out any sort of progress we can make on things that matter. I AM sick of the criticisms of Trump and his philandering or off hand comments or whatever social faux pas he has made that day. It's not because I don't believe they happened but because it doesn't matter in the current climate. I don't think Government is the one responsible for fixing every social "ill" that comes along. My definition of harassment or discrimination or aggression might be totally different than someone else's. I don't look to the government to tell me where to step next especially in my personal life. All of this stuff about dirty tricks and staffers who were wrongdoing all of the candidates is so much of a snooze fest. Why are we talking about who offended a rich female journalist or if some random thing they said is borderline racist or who is trying to impose their religion on us or how someone couldn't get something done because of this or that sitting president. None of that is at all is in any way as urgent an issue as our crushing tax system or failing healthcare initiative or a focused gameplan on combatting terrorisim. Quite frankly, you could screw 20 interns on the Resolute Desk and thumb your nose at the bible on national tv but if I thought you get our tax situation to where it doesn't suck the life and innovation out of business and you keep a firm grip on the terrorists that want to annihilate me and my kids I could probably hold my nose and vote for you for president.

The thing Trump really has going for him is that at least I can't say that he's been in office already and not done anything but things that would promote himself on my taxpayer dime like the rest of the field. I won't be voting for Trump because he seems like a douchebag who, even when he is being politically incorrect, doesn't even seem to believe his own words. Right now, short of the libertarian candidate turning out to be a  secret communist pedophile, they will probably get my vote.

I had just read this article before coming on here. I think that how a presidential candidate conducts himself publically and privately is important. I do want a POTUS who has generally good values across the board. He/she doesn't have to be a Christian, but if a candidate is up there saying racist things, performing sleezy campaign tactics, and throws lots of fits over everything, he/she will probably be a racist, sleezy candidates who throws fits whenever he doesn't get his way. I want a President to conduct himself/herself with grace, dignity, and honesty. 

Bolded. You're so correct. I think there's something to respecting the office of POTUS. I mean the actual Oval Office, but also the position and not doing things to disgrace the office, the People's House and also the actual position of the Presidency. It matters.

snp605

I'd like all of those things too. However, they aren't my most pressing issue. You could be a refined southern gentleman who has never told a lie in their life, but if the rest of your actual policies for the running of the country don't make sound financial and security sense or you have been completely ineffective at stopping the things clogging up the wheels then I'm going to put all of that aside when I'm considering who to vote for. That would really come in to play only if I was deciding between two otherwise completely palatable candidates.

I mean if you look through history some of our most revered presidents have been pretty lousy human beings in their personal lives. Jefferson with his slaves and illegitmate babies, Washington asked only to be compensated for his expenses as president then used government money to throw lavish parties and buy only the best of the best in riding gear, personal luxuries and even slaves (he was also known to be particularly ruthless in the pursuit and punishment of runaway slaves), Kennedy slept with several other young women in the White House, Teddy Roosevelt was behind the occupation of the  Phillipines in which over 200,000 filipinos were killed and he highly encouraged an early form of waterboarding stating that the filithiest water that could be found was to be used, etc.

None of this exonerates Trump of his loutish behavior but I can see why some people are willing to ignore it. Unfortunately for Carson he let the bully get the lion's share of the attention which unfortunately also reflects poorly on Carson himself. He'd have to hold his own at the table of national affairs against the similar likes of Putin and Kim Jong-Un.

BlueBirdMB

@snp605 while you can never know positively if a politician has moral clarity, you can certainly know if a politician lacks moral clarity. I am not talking about social issues here, I am talking about the willingness and ability to see and do right verses wrong. To me this is why all of trump's behavior matters. It shows a complete dearth of moral clarity. I think his behavior and actions also show a lack of understanding of the core values and principles of this country, most dangerously the limitations of power of government. Every one of his positions suggest he does not believe in or comprehend the limitations of the executive branch- something that sits at the foundation of many of our complaints about our government

MommyLiberty5013

BlueBirdMB said:

@snp605 while you can never know positively if a politician has moral clarity, you can certainly know if a politician lacks moral clarity. I am not talking about social issues here, I am talking about the willingness and ability to see and do right verses wrong. To me this is why all of trump's behavior matters. It shows a complete dearth of moral clarity. I think his behavior and actions also show a lack of understanding of the core values and principles of this country, most dangerously the limitations of power of government. Every one of his positions suggest he does not believe in or comprehend the limitations of the executive branch- something that sits at the foundation of many of our complaints about our government

Bolded. Plus, Trump's ideology is one of WIN vs. LOSE and little else. He had better win or he pouts. And, for the loser(s) he isn't exactly kind and gracious about it. An ability to compromise does not exist with him. Caveat: I don't think people should compromise away their fundamental beliefs; however, good leaders see the give and take and understand that s/he won't always get 100% of what they want 100% of the time. This has been a failure of Obama as well. I think Trump is an opposite pendulum swing to Obama's 8 years.

nkjacobsma

Have you guys tried typing in your address bar "loser.com"?

^And yes. I believe that the people who want Trump just want their version of Obama. They don't have a problem with him abusing his executive powers, they just want their guy doing the abusing instead.

BlueBirdMB

MommyLiberty5013 said:

BlueBirdMB said:

@snp605 while you can never know positively if a politician has moral clarity, you can certainly know if a politician lacks moral clarity. I am not talking about social issues here, I am talking about the willingness and ability to see and do right verses wrong. To me this is why all of trump's behavior matters. It shows a complete dearth of moral clarity. I think his behavior and actions also show a lack of understanding of the core values and principles of this country, most dangerously the limitations of power of government. Every one of his positions suggest he does not believe in or comprehend the limitations of the executive branch- something that sits at the foundation of many of our complaints about our government

Bolded. Plus, Trump's ideology is one of WIN vs. LOSE and little else. He had better win or he pouts. And, for the loser(s) he isn't exactly kind and gracious about it. An ability to compromise does not exist with him. Caveat: I don't think people should compromise away their fundamental beliefs; however, good leaders see the give and take and understand that s/he won't always get 100% of what they want 100% of the time. This has been a failure of Obama as well. I think Trump is an opposite pendulum swing to Obama's 8 years.

I couldn't agree more with all of this.  As for the bolded, the pendulum is swinging, but the result will be very much the same at the end of the day.

BlueBirdMB

nkjacobsma said:

Have you guys tried typing in your address bar "loser.com"?

^And yes. I believe that the people who want Trump just want their version of Obama. They don't have a problem with him abusing his executive powers, they just want their guy doing the abusing instead.

BAHAHAHAHA!!!!  Omg how did you come across that???

nkjacobsma

BlueBirdMB said:

nkjacobsma said:

Have you guys tried typing in your address bar "loser.com"?

^And yes. I believe that the people who want Trump just want their version of Obama. They don't have a problem with him abusing his executive powers, they just want their guy doing the abusing instead.

BAHAHAHAHA!!!!  Omg how did you come across that???

It showed up right after he lost the Iowa caucuses. I saw it online somewhere.

snp605

nkjacobsma said:

Have you guys tried typing in your address bar "loser.com"?

^And yes. I believe that the people who want Trump just want their version of Obama. They don't have a problem with him abusing his executive powers, they just want their guy doing the abusing instead.

This is pretty accurate and as a good a reason as I have heard to explain why it is such a bad idea to vote for him. I wish the establishment had seen the handwriting on the wall and put up someone less entrenched and supported more of the viable outside candidates like Carson. They are so worried about keeping close ranks so that when their own elections come up that they have their backing that they sell their souls to keep the party line. I think there is a segment of the above bold population who would have considered anyone critical of the current group (either side) and willing to break completely from the current rhetoric and soundbites.

smerka

I am probably going to regret asking this, but what executive powers has Obama abused?

BlueBirdMB

smerka said:

I am probably going to regret asking this, but what executive powers has Obama abused?

It's true that most presidents have used executive orders near the quantity that Obama has, but the past two presidents have legislated through the use of executive order.  Executive orders were not created for the purpose of legislation.  GW did this, but Obama has certainly taken it quite a few steps further.  Legislation is suppose to be written and passed by Congress, with the presidents only authority being to either sign or veto the legislation.  That is what creates the balance of power.

smerka

Can you give examples? I know Obama has done a lot fewer executive orders, and I thought the ones he did were because Congress can't seem to get anything done because they are too busy trying (and failing) to repeal Obamacare.

BlueBirdMB

smerka said:

Can you give examples? I know Obama has done a lot fewer executive orders, and I thought the ones he did were because Congress can't seem to get anything done because they are too busy trying (and failing) to repeal Obamacare.

His first series of super controversial orders were about illegal immigration granting illegals not only amnesty, but also access to government programs.  This was while the Dems held the house.  However, he signed plenty of orders before this that were legislative while the Dems controlled by houses.

Most recently there were all the executive orders on gun control, of course.  It's been an never ending stream of such orders.

Honestly, just google "Obama's executive orders".  Almost all of them are actual legislation and almost none of them are time pressing matters- the original intention of executive orders.  Also google, "Obama's presidential memoranda".  These are executive orders by another name and he has signed them at an alarming rate.  If you add these together with his official executive orders, he has signed the most amount of orders of any president.  

I'm a little shocked you think Obama was forced in to this type of action because Congress was "too busy trying to repeal Obamacare".  Congress while it was controlled by Dems and then by Reps, has done far more than trying to repeal Obamacare.  That is a gross exaggeration.  Is it true that since Obama lost control of both houses that there hasn't been much accomplished?  Yes.  Because there has been a completely stalemate, not because one side was utterly consumed with one task.  I blame the stalemate on the complete lack of leadership.  Most presidents have lost control of Congress by their second term and yet, they played freakin' ball.  Clinton, for example, had a Republican controlled Congress his entire second term and yet, they got a ton of shit done.  He played ball.  Obama refuses to even meet with members of Congress.  It's the most absurd mess I have ever seen.

I'm not going to say that Obama is the only president to use these types of orders, although he has signed the most when you add up presidential memoranda's and executive orders.  We've been down this slippery path for a long time.  Obama just took it to a new level.  

Which is why it's so important to elect a president who respects the limitations of the executive branch.  We can't keep this shit up or it's going to get scary.

smerka

They have voted 60 times in five years. Last month they finally got enough votes to send a bill to the President's desk which will be promptly vetoed if it hasn't already. I found the executive orders on the WhiteHouse website and I didn't see any on immigration. Mostly closing offices for Christmas, pay rates, and other boring stuff. I will look again.

BlueBirdMB

smerka said:

They have voted 60 times in five years. Last month they finally got enough votes to send a bill to the President's desk which will be promptly vetoed if it hasn't already. I found the executive orders on the WhiteHouse website and I didn't see any on immigration. Mostly closing offices for Christmas, pay rates, and other boring stuff. I will look again.

I'm not sure what you are looking at.  His immigration executive orders in 2013 dominated the news cycle for months.  You don't remember that?  When I googled his executive orders, that was the very first thing to pop up.

They've also voted on many other issues as well.  And as a citizen who has been profoundly negatively effected by the ACA, I think they aren't trying hard enough on that issue.  They were voted into office and that was a primary reason.  But I digress, to think that all they do is sit around and talk about how to take down Obama's signature legislation, is absurd.  I don't think Obama just sits around figuring out how to push his liberal agenda.  I understand that there is far more to government then that. 

BlueBirdMB

I can't comprehend how someone can't agree that using executive authority for even a single bit of legislation is a gross over reaching of authority.  I'm not blaming Obama for this- it's a trend that has gotten out of hand and needs to be stopped.  There is a very deep, profound, and powerful reason why we have separation of powers and the concept of executive order (or presidential memoranda) was not meant to abuse this.

vlagrl29

His latest executive order was talked about today - closing guantanimo bay - what?

Some of the inmates there have already been moved to the Leavenworth KS prison which is a 30 minute drive from our house.

vlagrl29

BlueBirdMB said:

smerka said:

They have voted 60 times in five years. Last month they finally got enough votes to send a bill to the President's desk which will be promptly vetoed if it hasn't already. I found the executive orders on the WhiteHouse website and I didn't see any on immigration. Mostly closing offices for Christmas, pay rates, and other boring stuff. I will look again.

I'm not sure what you are looking at.  His immigration executive orders in 2013 dominated the news cycle for months.  You don't remember that?  When I googled his executive orders, that was the very first thing to pop up.

They've also voted on many other issues as well.  And as a citizen who has been profoundly negatively effected by the ACA, I think they aren't trying hard enough on that issue.  They were voted into office and that was a primary reason.  But I digress, to think that all they do is sit around and talk about how to take down Obama's signature legislation, is absurd.  I don't think Obama just sits around figuring out how to push his liberal agenda.  I understand that there is far more to government then that. 

Yes it was all over the news that year.  I honestly couldn't believe they were even talking about that.

snp605

smerka said:

Can you give examples? I know Obama has done a lot fewer executive orders, and I thought the ones he did were because Congress can't seem to get anything done because they are too busy trying (and failing) to repeal Obamacare.

I kind of can't wrap my head around this justification. Short of failing to respond to something like a Declaration of War or total collapse of the stockmarket, Congress should take the time they need to work something out even if it stalemates. It is not the job of the president to do their job for them if he doesn't like how it is going or how long it is taking. If they don't get anything done, then WE as voters get a chance to throw them all out every 2 and 6 years. Yes, it will suck during that time but that's what happens when we focus so much on presidential elections and aren't more careful about congressional and state level elections. l'll bet dollars to donuts I could ask 10 people today I come across who our senators and congressmen are here and they wouldn't be able to name even 1.  It's insane to think we can keep doing the things we currently do and are ever going to get different results.

smerka

BlueBirdMB said:

I can't comprehend how someone can't agree that using executive authority for even a single bit of legislation is a gross over reaching of authority.  I'm not blaming Obama for this- it's a trend that has gotten out of hand and needs to be stopped.  There is a very deep, profound, and powerful reason why we have separation of powers and the concept of executive order (or presidential memoranda) was not meant to abuse this.

I think I would feel much differently if I disagreed with the EOs/Memorandums. The immigration one is going to go before the Supreme Court and will probably get shot down because of a 4-4 tie because of the Scalia vacancy. If they haven't yet, I'm sure the NRA is doing everything they can to get the gun ones overturned. One of the EOs was to provide federal funding to study gun violence - what can be done to stop it, why it is happening, etc. The NRA has been staunchly opposed to this which is why Congress has defunded any federal studies.

snp605

what is the point of having Congress if a president can just essentially write and pass their own legislation? What happens when you DON'T agree with what that president is doing?

BlueBirdMB

snp605 said:

what is the point of having Congress if a president can just essentially write and pass their own legislation? What happens when you DON'T agree with what that president is doing?

Exactly! Whether you agree or not isn't the point. We sit and say that it doesn't matter that much who the president is because he isn't a king, but if we elect a president who sees no use for congress then he might as well be a king.

BlueBirdMB

snp605 said:

smerka said:

Can you give examples? I know Obama has done a lot fewer executive orders, and I thought the ones he did were because Congress can't seem to get anything done because they are too busy trying (and failing) to repeal Obamacare.

I kind of can't wrap my head around this justification. Short of failing to respond to something like a Declaration of War or total collapse of the stockmarket, Congress should take the time they need to work something out even if it stalemates. It is not the job of the president to do their job for them if he doesn't like how it is going or how long it is taking. If they don't get anything done, then WE as voters get a chance to throw them all out every 2 and 6 years. Yes, it will suck during that time but that's what happens when we focus so much on presidential elections and aren't more careful about congressional and state level elections. l'll bet dollars to donuts I could ask 10 people today I come across who our senators and congressmen are here and they wouldn't be able to name even 1.  It's insane to think we can keep doing the things we currently do and are ever going to get different results.

Oh jeez you are probably right. I bet most people here don't know our senators or congressmen. It should matter just as much as a president.