For those who tithe...

smerka

I'm not a Christian so I don't know about this tithing situation. I watched a Life or Debt with a pastor who has been living with his inlaws for two years because of financial issues. They owned a house but were renting it out. The guy was tithing based on the amount of rent they were receiving ($2500) not on the profit ($300). So my question is Do you tithe on your gross or your net? Do you (or would you) continue to tithe in times of financial crisis like job loss, medical issues, etc? I'm just curious.

labro

My ILs tithe based on their net I think, and they tithe regardless of their financial situation. They say they always feel like they are doing "better" financially when they tithed compared to the instances where they stopped during some extreme financial distress. It sounds bunk to me but I try to respect their decision to do so.

My sister on the other hand tithes directly out of her paycheck. I think she has something set up where it's an automatic deduction straight to an account for her church, so I assume she does so based on her gross income. As far as I know, she's never stopped tithing either. When she wasn't working (and thus the auto deduction wasn't happening), she'd tithe in cash with what she had.

hoffse

Tithing isn't something that all Christians do.  I'm Catholic and have no obligation or pressure to tithe. 

I've mentioned this before on these boards, but I pull 990's for organizations that we donate to.  That's the annual tax return for exempt entities, where they have to disclose how their funds are used.  Churches aren't required to file 990's, and IMO that's how you end up with the Joel Osteens of the world whose churches have enough money to buy the Houston Rocket's stadium and spend nearly $100M renovating it.... but they still don't pay taxes.  Obviously that's an extreme example, but still.

Even if I was "supposed" to tithe, I don't think I would.  It's way too easy to lie on an internal budget sheet.  Lying to the IRS feels more serious, and that's why we only donate to organizations that have to file 990's.  

**Stepping off my soapbox**

That being said, most of the people I work with tithe.  I live in Alabama, after all.  Everybody I know who does it tithes based on net income.  I find that kind of odd, because pretty much every other financial measure is based on gross income (retirement, debt-to-income ratios, etc.).  The modern definition of a tithe is 10% of annual earnings taken as a tax for the church.  It seems to me that this definition requires you to measure it based on gross income.  But nobody has ever asked me.

Tithing comes from the old testament, and our modern twist on it isn't exactly what was intended.  Historically, wealth was largely tied up in agriculture, so a tithe would include offerings of crops, animals, and other worldly goods.  It wasn't just cash.  

als1982

We give to our church but only to support their back snack program that provides weekend and after school meals to kids and their faith works program, that provides meals at area homeless shelters and other direct care to those in need. However, those are some of our smaller donations. I'm a big proponent of United Way, plus we have a decent pledge to an organization where I serve on the board. We/I also go to at least one breakfast, lunch or gala fundraisers a month and like to give at least $50 when we or I attend those.

vlagrl35

I wish we could tithe more but right now we can't.  We tithe to the yoga church we go to.  They say you should tithe to those that spiritually feed you - It doesn't necessarily have to be a church.  I believe its gross income but not totally sure.

vlagrl35

labro said:

My ILs tithe based on their net I think, and they tithe regardless of their financial situation. They say they always feel like they are doing "better" financially when they tithed compared to the instances where they stopped during some extreme financial distress. It sounds bunk to me but I try to respect their decision to do so.

My sister on the other hand tithes directly out of her paycheck. I think she has something set up where it's an automatic deduction straight to an account for her church, so I assume she does so based on her gross income. As far as I know, she's never stopped tithing either. When she wasn't working (and thus the auto deduction wasn't happening), she'd tithe in cash with what she had.

That's what one of our yoga teachers does too.  She says back in 2009 she was in a very stressful financial situation and didn't know where her next check was coming from but she still tithed.  As she kept doing that her needs kept being met.  She says its a key part to having financial peace.  

Xstatic3333

I don't tithe, but I saw that episode and that dude was seriously detached from reality. I hope he gets it together for his family's sake.

MommyLiberty5013

DH and I have both tithed since graduating from college and being self-sustaining (earning our own income versus using our parents' money). It has always been 10% at least of the gross income we each earn. In times when we are not earning an income, we do not tithe. When we receive money as gifts from family (like for example my grandfather gave us $13,000 a few years ago) we tithed off that. We enjoy tithing and we continue to do it no matter the other expenses or life situations. So, as long as we're are earning income, we will tithe no matter how tough life gets.

We are not obligated to tithe or give anything at all. But, we believe, based on Scripture, that God appreciates a cheerful giver, "Each of you should give what you have decided in your heart to give, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver" 2 Corinthians 9:7. In our faith walks, we try to do what we're called to do and be.

Furthermore, we do believe that we can not serve God and wealth. "No one can serve two masters. Either you will hate the one and love the other, or you will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and money" (Matthew 6:24). This Scripture isn't saying wealth is bad or that we shouldn't have it, it is saying that money has power over people and it's easy to be devoted to things that are powerful. So, we have to be wise about money and not let it manipulate or control our lives. One way we do that is to tithe. If we give money up for the sake of others and the Church, then it is a way for us to control IT versus it controlling us.

The last reason we tithe is because it's how the church and its work is sustained. To give 10% is not a random idea. The Old Testament Hebrews were called to give 10% of their earnings, crops, livestock, etc. to the Temple to take care of the Temple but to also care for the Levites/priests. The Levites earned no income and as the religious leaders, they relied on the help from the other Tribes of Israel for their sustenance. It was a way for a community to be built and grow. Personally, I would not feel comfortable relying on and using the resources of a church or a pastor and not contribute to its/his livelihood. It seems very selfish to me.

DH and I also give above 10% to other organizations namely, Gospel for Asia. We see that there is so much need in the world and consider ourselves blessed beyond measure to live in the USA and have so much wealth compared to the rest of the world. When kids are starving in India and Nepal, it's hard for us to not help out. It means we go without some things (like automatic doors on our minivan {first world problem}), new clothing all the time, and brand new furniture {we get what we need on Craigslist}).

If the economy doesn't collapse, DH and I will be multi-millionaires by retirement...our desire is to give it away and live simply, helping others, and demonstrating a simplistic life for our kids.

AprilZ81

We give to the church, but not a full 10%.

We budget a monthly amount to give and will sometimes give more to special events where there is a need and we have some extra money.

When I lost my job we had to cut back but we didn't totally eliminate it.

julieanne912

Question for you all though.... if you were in a situation like this family, ie they had no home (they lived with her parents along with their 4 kids), and they weren't even managing to save enough every month for a security deposit, do you think they should have kept tithing 10%, including 10% on rental income (the $2500 before they paid the mortgage, not the $300 they made)?  

als1982

julieanne912 said:

Question for you all though.... if you were in a situation like this family, ie they had no home (they lived with her parents along with their 4 kids), and they weren't even managing to save enough every month for a security deposit, do you think they should have kept tithing 10%, including 10% on rental income (the $2500 before they paid the mortgage, not the $300 they made)?  

I don't think her parents should have let them live with them, but that's a completely different issue.

vlagrl35

julieanne912 said:

Question for you all though.... if you were in a situation like this family, ie they had no home (they lived with her parents along with their 4 kids), and they weren't even managing to save enough every month for a security deposit, do you think they should have kept tithing 10%, including 10% on rental income (the $2500 before they paid the mortgage, not the $300 they made)?  

depends - do you know about average what they make a month?  Why are they living with her parents?  That sounds dreadful.

brij2006

We tithe off our net, not our gross. We do the 10%.

We will always tithe.  Even with a job loss, we will tithe.  Our church is very important to us, and so is tithing.  We don't want to see its doors shut and feel like we could have done something different.

We also set aside X amount every month for additional giving within the church.  So if there's a special project or a special offering for a different organization, then we have money in a pot to give to those as well. 

julieanne912

vlagrl35 said:

julieanne912 said:

Question for you all though.... if you were in a situation like this family, ie they had no home (they lived with her parents along with their 4 kids), and they weren't even managing to save enough every month for a security deposit, do you think they should have kept tithing 10%, including 10% on rental income (the $2500 before they paid the mortgage, not the $300 they made)?  

depends - do you know about average what they make a month?  Why are they living with her parents?  That sounds dreadful.

I can't recall exact numbers but I think their annual income was in the 70-80k range.  He was a pastor and she didn't work, even though she admitted she missed working, but her husband didn't want her to work.  So, hypothetically, enough to save up for a deposit and first month's rent somewhere.  They did live in the San Diego area where I know is expensive.  Basically, he was completely delusional and seemed only interested in what he wanted to do, and sacrificed his family as a result.

But yeah, the parents were just letting them get away with it.  I think the mom was to blame, the dad seemed pretty fed up with it all.  

short+sassy

julieanne912 said:

Question for you all though.... if you were in a situation like this family, ie they had no home (they lived with her parents along with their 4 kids), and they weren't even managing to save enough every month for a security deposit, do you think they should have kept tithing 10%, including 10% on rental income (the $2500 before they paid the mortgage, not the $300 they made)?  

With a typical job, I could see a good argument either way for tithing on either the gross or the net.

But I see the situation above as TOTALLY different and nuts.  The profit they make as opposed to their very real expenses is already such a small percentage.  And, if those expense for the house don't include items like "future vacancy" and "maintenance/repairs", they are already losing money on that house even before they tithe.

But, bottom line, people can give whatever money they want to whatever organization they want.  As such, each individual person can set their own rules for what they think is fair in terms of tithing.

With all that said, I'm curious if the people in this episode were contributing to their parent's household.  If not, that "tithing" from the rental property should go to their parents.  For their work in supporting the homeless.   

csuave

I didn't see the episode so I can't comment on the specific situation.  

I generally give 10% of my gross income, probably a little more to a combination of church and charity.  H does not for his income.  This is one of the reasons why we have his/hers/and ours accounts. Although we do some charitable donations and membership buying out of our combined account.

When I was starting out I think I was closer to 10% on net income.  Then I started making more and at the same time I made a conscious effort to be more generous and less tight with money in that sense.

It is hard to say if I would still do 10% in tough times.  I don't believe I can really know a situation until I have to experience it.  But I would like to think that I would because I think it provides a discipline to managing money and giving up things that are not really needs so that more (and more good) can be done with what little money there is.