Killing the grass (weeds) and starting over?

MrsHughesNC

Hi everyone...This is my first post on this board. I'm hoping you can help!

So our lawn, once nice, is now completely overtaken by weeds... dandelion, clover, that tall, wheat-y looking grass (not sure what it's called), you name it. There is very little grass at this point, really.

At this point I wonder if the best approach wouldn't be to kill it all, re-seed, and start over this fall.

Is this a good or bad idea? And what is the best method to go about it? Our yard is small-- less than .25 acres.

TIA!

pattymctatty

We had major crabgrass this year. I pulled them up by hand and re-seeded the bare areas. Now I will over seed the rest of the lawn and fertilize in a few weeks, just before the first frost.

This spring I just bought some dandelion killer that you attach to your hose. That worked well. I haven't had any dandelions this summer after that first awful batch.

I don't like using chemicals since we have a dog, but sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do...

Good luck!!!!

dirtyred

Most of the stuff you describe (except the dandelions) are annual weeds that will die during winter.  Overseeding this fall and then putting down a pre-emergent in the spring will do wonders for weed control next year.

~NB~

It's certainly feasible to apply an herbicide and start over on a small lawn.

Glyphosate works on any green plant tissue it touches, but doesn't have any soil activity and is nontoxic to people and pets. What you buy in the store (Roundup) is very dilute, so you may need to do more than one treatment. After everything browns out, you can till, rake, and put down seed or sod.

Alisha_A

~NB~:

It's certainly feasible to apply an herbicide and start over on a small lawn.

Glyphosate works on any green plant tissue it touches, but doesn't have any soil activity and is nontoxic to people and pets. What you buy in the store (Roundup) is very dilute, so you may need to do more than one treatment. After everything browns out, you can till, rake, and put down seed or sod.

Uh, do you work for Monsanto?

Non-toxic??? You've got to be kidding.

It is toxic. To us, our pets, wildlife, and soil microbes.

To the OP, I'm getting rid of my grass using layer/lasagna gardening/sheet mulching -- whatever you want to call it! But I'm not redoing grass. Grass is hard to maintain especially without chemicals, it doesn't retain water much and has to be mowed. Forget it!

~NB~

Alisha_A:

Uh, do you work for Monsanto? Uh, you know that I do not.

It is toxic. To us, our pets, wildlife, and soil microbes.

EPA classified as nontoxic when used according to MSDS for the described application. Nobody is ingesting it, inhaling it, or spraying it long distances. It's not ongoing use. It's not a farm or a forested area or a bird sanctuary or a wetland. It's a very small lawn. In light of these criteria, it is feasible IMO.

You know me well enough to know that if I believe someone is about to do something bad, risky, harmful, or dumb I would say so (as gently as possible). Studies showing toxic effects with this chemical may not have any bearing for this question- the conditions won't be duplicated, and may not be comparable. I certainly care about cumulative toxic effects of horticultural chemicals, and spend a lot of time poring over relevant research. Summarizing it, writing reports about it, and giving sworn testimony about it is a big part of my job. I'm not an alarmist; I'm pragmatic about science, and the difference between use and misuse is usually human error. Even water is "toxic" if you drink too much too fast.

Alisha_A

But it becomes cumulative, because everyone justifies there use as, oh, just this small area, just in spring, just when the weeds are bad, just now to redo the landscaping. It really isn't an isolated event.

Have you seen the studies on the various metabolites of pesticides/herbicides in children's urine? Even children raised in organic homes (their own gardens, and I believe their diets) had them.

Dogs raised in homes that use Roundup are 4x more likely to get lymphoma.

I just cannot agree that its harmless, and beyond that, its certainly not beneficial. There are safe, organic ways to kill off grass that actually improve your soil. If your grass isn't good, you probably don't have good soil.

~NB~

Alisha_A:

But it becomes cumulative (need data), because everyone justifies there use (need data) as, oh, just this small area (need data), just in spring (need data), just when the weeds are bad (need data), just now to redo the landscaping (need data). It really isn't an isolated event. I can't promise that this person will ever use lawn chemicals, nor can I speak to likelihood or frequency of subsequent use or subsequent behaviors after initial use, but I would be interested in looking into it.

Have you seen the studies on the various metabolites of pesticides/herbicides in children's urine? Yes, I've seen some. To what study are you referring? Even children raised in organic homes (their own gardens, and I believe their diets) had them. Was the study you're speaking of able to pinpoint the source conclusively?

Dogs raised in homes that use Roundup are 4x more likely to get lymphoma. Homes don't use Roundup, people do; the critical factor is HOW they use Roundup. How much? How frequently? Over what time span? What time of day, under what weather conditions (temperature, wind speed, humidity)? And what methodology was used in the analysis? All these factors must be strickly controlled and accurately measured to evaluate validity of data.

I just cannot agree that its harmless (did someone say it was harmless?), and beyond that, its certainly not beneficial (that depends who you ask). There are safe, organic ways to kill off grass that actually improve your soil. If your grass isn't good, you probably don't have good soil.

"Organic" and "safe" are not interchangeable, but what treatment are you talking about? Good soil grows good grass, but it also grows big, healthy weeds. There is no such thing as "Roundup addiction" to my knowledge; I have never heard of one use causing more use or leading to an uncontrollable habit. We can't castigate somebody for poisoning kids and dogs because they once sprayed Roundup... or once thought about it.

I understand people have strong feelings about these things, and I respect that; but emotion can never enter into my work. It must be clinical, verifiable, and objective or it won't hold up in court.