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hybrid plants
Alisha_A:
That's one of the main reasons I plant heirlooms. It was cool getting to explain to my gardening buddy about seeds. She, like most gardeners, didn't know you can't save seeds and keep planting from commercial (unstable) hybrids, because they are so cheap its easier to just buy new ones every year. But the longterm implications of that are freaky.
I read this in another post and it reminded me of a question I have. MH and I have been planting a garden and I've been telling him this same thing about hybrid seeds. But, my question is, how do I know if the produce I buy is a hybrid? Is it safe to assume that anything from the grocery store is?
We bought quite a few heirloom plants from a local farm and I'm definitely saving the seeds we get from that produce. But MH planted a papaya tree from the seed of a papaya from the grocery store - he's really excited about it, but I wonder if it was a hybrid and the fruit will be no good. I'd hate for him to go to all this trouble (he has lots of other seeds from grocery store fruit in pots in our backyard) if they will all turn out poorly.
Re: hybrid plants
I'm unconvinced hybrids are the devil. Heirloom produce is good - if it grows. Hybrids have been bred to be more productive and disease resistant than the original parent plants. My heirloom tomatoes all failed this summer. My mutant hybrids grew like monsters. I was glad to actually get some fruit.
As to fruit, you'd have to research each one and see what the norm is.
Even roses - my rosebush died so I cut it back to roots. It grew again. I don't know if it's what was originally there, as they often splice less hardy varieties onto stronger rooted plants. Either way, I have a rose now. Hybrid seeds usually grow, they just have less predictable characteristics.
Its not that I think hybrid seeds are 'the devil', its just that I do not like the idea of all home gardens being full of food plants that do not reproduce well. Yes, they do grow, but they almost invariably revert to a much poorer plant.
There are stable vintage and heirloom hybrids that have been .... well I don't know the proper horticultural term, but they are hybrids that will grow 'true'.
I really don't consider myself an alarmist. I do not believe there is some great catastrophe coming in which we're going to all have to live off our gardens and whatnot. But I think its absolutely crazy to just keep on allowing a few companies to control all our food supply, and to reduce variety.
A bonus on stable hybrids is that if you grow them and save the seeds from your best fruits, next year the plants from that will do even better. Saving seeds from an unstable hybrid means you generally get a really crappy plant.
The mass-marketed hybrids are usually made for just that, the mass-market. More unique varieties are often better suited to your home. While there are some short season tomatoes for instance on the mass-market side, they are pretty boring and not so great. On the other hand in the heirloom and vintage seeds there are TONS tomatoes that I can grow here. There are almost no melons in the mass-market that work for our short seasons, but a lot in heirloom and vintage. And that brings up another benefit IMO, the variety. There are so many fun melons, peas, beans, tomatoes, and so on in vintage and heirloom, I think it'd be really sad if we didn't have these around. Our markets here have a lot of melons that many people in the country probably never see, but still there are even more I can do from seed.
www.cherrygal.com is one company I like, another www.heirloomseeds.com
As for the papaya seed, sure, grow it, why not? But I wouldn't count on it producing well. I really don't know a lot about papayas and if it would be an unstable hybrid, but most papayas are also genetically modified, so it may not sprout, but no harm in giving it a shot. Its not like if you plant an unstable hybrid you're doing your garden harm. I have a friend that I garden with and planted a bunch of her old seeds. But its more fun for me to get different varieties, especially ones that taste better and grow better in my area, and ones I can save as they perform well in my garden.
our papaya tree is about 4 feet tall now, so it is growing, I'm just kind of wondering if we'll actually get any decent fruit out of it. it'd be a shame to devote years to a tree that isn't going to produce. Although, I just googled it and it looks like we should expect fruit the first year, so maybe it won't be so bad. If this one turns out bad we can always try a different kind next year.
that's interesting about the squash plants. I did just dry out some butternut squash seeds - it'll be interesting to see what we end up with when we plant them. I'm not as worried about things like this though, it was more the time and space investment in a tree that made me a little apprehensive.
ETA: apprehensive probably isn't the right word here. I'm not worried about it ruining our yard, we're just trying to plant quite a few trees on our property and of course I want them to be successful!
My Ovulation Chart
Oh I think it'd be fun if some of my plants crossed! That's not the issue. I kinda feel like you missed the point.
My problem with commercial hybrids is they are owned by the few major big ag companies.
If no one ever planted anything else, it is possible we could end up with just a few varieties of food plants, all owned by a few companies (who also own most other parts of our food supply). And while no, again, I don't think in a few months we're suddenly going to be in some post-apocalyptic society begging for seeds, I just think its crazy to keep going further in this direction.
As usual, I'm with Alisha on this. While I don't see anything wrong with using hybrid seeds (my hybrid tomatoes did very well this year), I just don't think it's sustainable to be dependent on seed companies. The number of seed companies gets smaller and smaller every year as big companies buy up the small companies. Monsanto is the largest seed company in the world
Over time, those big companies are deciding what kinds of produce grows in this world, and vintage and heirloom varieties are lost to the edible landscape forever. The big seed companies also set the price for seeds, so that drives farmers to choose hybrid varieties that may not be as flavorful as other types. I also don't think the world is going to implode and we won't be able to get hybrid seeds anymore, but I also think it's an important skill for every gardener to know how to collect and plant their own seeds. It ensures natural selection still functions in your garden, saves money, and keeps money from Big Ag all at the same time. We chose mostly heirloom seeds this year, because if they've grown well in VA for generations then I think they'll do well for us, too. I have a bunch of varieties that Thomas Jefferson planted 
ETA: Yes, I think it's safe to assume anything from the grocery store not explictly labeled as an heirloom is a hybrid. Trust me, grocery stores like WF and Farmer's Markets charge a premium for heirloom produce because it takes more effort and time to grow. I wouldn't chuck your DH's potted plants though. I'm sure they'll be fine.