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Father-in-Law from HELL!
Please help...my father-in-law is awful. Neither of us care for each other, however I'm the only one willing to admit this. My husband and father-in-law would rather play make believe and pretend we all like one another.
Now, my husband and I grew up in completely different households. My family was a democracy, where everyone (even us as children/teenagers) had a voice and opinion. In my house growing up, even though there were disagreements my parents treated us with respect, treated each other with respect and no one's insecurities or flaws were preyed upon. In contrast, my husband grew up in a family where his father was a dictator. It was my father-in-law's way for the highway. My husband, two siblings and mom had no say, no opinion, no vote. My husband and his siblings were made fun of, teased, embarrassed for any mistake, flaw or insecurity by my father-in-law.
My father-in-law has never said or made any comment directly to me, but he has made numerous comments to my husband. A few examples...
1) During our wedding planning process a comment from my father-in-law to my husband - "I'm worried she has too much say in the decision making process."
2) A few friends of mine, and my husband's brother and wife are vegetitarins and my father-in-law's comment when discussing menu options for our wedding - "We can put all the weirdos at one table, with a sign on the centerpiece that says DON'T EAT THE FLOWERS."
I could go on and on, but you get the idea. My best description of him is an educated Archie Bunker. Racist, judgmental, sexist, arrogant, mean, manipulative, condescending, calculated, but educated none the less.
My husband lacks the skill of being objective about his family, especially about his father. I will not say my family is perfect, but I will be the first one to admit their faults and the stuff they do that drives me crazy.
My dislike for my father-in-law goes beyond the fact that we have different views and opinions. I truly, deep down do not think he is a good person. He treats my husband like he is 10 years old, and tries to interject his opinion into our relationship and decisions. It is insulting to me, and the fact that my husband doesn't stick up for me, or himself makes me lose a lot of respect for him. He refuses to see his father's behavior for what it is.
I'm indifferent to my father-in-law's opinion of me, but it does bother my husband. I tolerate my father-in-law's snide comments, and digs directed at me, and I refuse to engage in a verbal battle with him. However, I have been married for less than a year, and I obviously can't see into the future, but I don't want to be around someone who treats my husband like an imbasole and who doesn't like me. Eventually, I will reach my threshold of what I can tolerate, and I will no longer subject myself to being in his presence.
Which leads to a bigger question...children. I am closer on the spectrum of not wanting children, but my husband is leaning closer to the other end, where he wants kids. We talked about this subject before we got married, and neither of us were in a rush, neither of us were totally against it, but neither of us were dead set on having kids either. Since that conversation (about 10 months ago) my perspective on the subject hasn't changed, but my husband's has. What is really putting the nail in the coffin for me not wanting children, is the fact that I would be forced to continually deal with my father-in-law. My husband may be fine with his father's behavior, and I can tolerate it up to a certain point, but I know myself well enough, that when it would come to our children I would have no tolerance for his rude, judgmental, racist, ignorant behavior.
I don't know what to do. Every time my husband and I discuss his father we end up fighting. I will never think his father is a good person, and the less I have to be around him the better. Please help me...I'm struggling.
Re: Father-in-Law from HELL!
Your FIL has been like this since the begining of your relationship with your H. What made you think that he or the way your H handles him would change after i do?
The fact that you wouldnt want children because of him is really a huge statement. You say your H lets his father run the show, but so are you.
Actually i think it is a very good idea NOT to have kids. This relationship does not sound strong enough to be able to handle children.
Your FIL is not the problem, your husband is.
Have you told your husband that the fact that he lets his father treat you badly is making you question whether you want kids, and whether you want to stay in the marriage?
My husband knows everything. He knows I think his father is an arrogant, vindictive, dictator. I've told him it bothers me that he doesn't stick up for me or himself, and that knowing I would have to deal with my FIL on a more regular basis if we had kids makes me not want to have them even more.
My husband's response is..."My father has been like this his entire life, and I just deal with it. He isn't going to change, and starting a conflict with him will not help."
I suppose I just want my husband to recognize and have some awareness of how his father's behavior has affected him and the rest of his family.
I haven't let my father-in-law call the shots in my life, and that is why he dislikes me so much. For instance, his parents wanted to me to scale down all the "fluff" at our wedding so they could invite more people, which I didn't. They decided to have a surprise 30th bday party for my husband the night before my bridal shower (that 95 guests were coming too, along with 12 of my out of town friends) and tell me 3 days before hand; I did not attend the surprise party. Our niece's baptism was scheduled on the same day as a friend of mine's baby shower, in which I had already discussed with my SIL and due to her in-law's schedule had to have the baptism on the same day. My husband knew his sister was ok with me not coming, and he told me to go ahead and buy the plane ticket to go to my friend's baby shower. When my father-in-law found out he wanted me to change my flight and not go to the babyshower. I didn't go to the baptism, and of course he was not happy.
I'm never going to make decisions just to keep him happy, therefore this is why I am certain eventually he and I will reach a point where we can not tolerate each other.
Nowhere in your post do I see any evidence that your H has consistently taken your side. That's a bigger problem than your FIL.
He's a racist and rude and judgemental? Seems as though the both of you need to cut this guy out of your lives, pronto.
Eh, all the examples you have given show that your FIL is annoying, but I'm not seeing how he is the evil person that you claim he is.
So he thinks you are weird because you are a vegetarian.
So he thinks he should have been allowed a bigger guest list for your wedding/
So he thinks you should have prioritized a baptism over a baby shower (which I actually agree with him on this one).
As far as the surprise party - was this something they had been planning for months but purposefully waited until the last minute to tell you about? Or was it thrown together last minute? Quite frankly, I don't understand why you couldn't attend a party just because it was the night before your bridal shower.
We live out of town from where my shower and wedding were held. My husband and I were driving in on the day they planned the party. My shower had been planned 8 months in advance and this surprise party wasn't mentioned to me until the Tuesday before my shower.
I had five friends driving in from out of town, and were staying with me at my parents house. Not to mention, my parents live over an hour away from where the surprise party was being held.
Maybe I'm being selfish, but I wasn't about to tell my 5 friends "you can wait for me at my parents' house after driving over 5 hrs to get here, while I attend a surprise party that was put together 3 days ago."
I agree he sounds annoying but not evil.
So either there is more to this story and DH needs to stand up to your DH. OR your FIL is annoying but there's not actually something for your DH to "stand up to him" about.
Does your DH think his behaviour is acceptable? Or does he just not see the point in conflict?
Your husband has stated that your FIL is not going to change. He is tolerant of his behavior and is not gonna fight him. You have to decide if you are okay spending the rest of your life with someone who has no problem with the way your FIL acts, is okay with his behavior, and would rather not rock the boat than stick up for you or your future children.
If your DH doesn't see a problem with this, I doubt he will think keeping the kids from your FIL is justified. If being with DH is making you rethink having kids, do you think you will regret it in the long run if you don't have kids or do you think you could handle the arguments that are going to start once DH and FIL think you shouldn't keep the kids away from FIL (if you do have kids).
You have some tough choices to make and the fact that your DH isn't standing up for you or himself should play into your decision. No one wants to be with a weak man.
"H, your dad is not the person you will be waking up next to and sharing a home with for the rest of your life. Grow a set and tell him to stop treating me like schitt. I don't care if that's how he was all his life. I'm not going to put up with it. You're a grown man. Start acting like one and tell him to stop treating you otherwise."
More than anything I think the FIL sounds more like a smart azz. Ignore him and try to take him in small doses until H decides to grow a spine and stand up to him. And if that doesn't happen any time soon, I think I'd re-evaluate the marriage.
Ok. Now I don't feel so bad for hating this misspelling! Thanks renegade for bringing it up!
Oh and my opinion on the FIL is, if he is on your last nerve, then tell him so! You are a grown woman and can take care of addressing rudeness without relying on your hubby to do so. If I am reading your descriptions of the situations correctly, your FIL is not really in your sh!t, he just say things to your hubby and you "hear" about them later. So don't sweat it. He never seemed to mind addressing his own family directly when he didn't agree with something...but with you, he doesn't have the guts to go directly to you. Remember this when dealing with azzholes like him and it will make him NUTS...."He who cares the least wins!"
GL!
You say your FIL doesn't respect you. And it sounds like you don't respect him one bit either, so why you think he should respect YOU and kowtow to YOUR wishes and preferences when you won't bend an inch with him is beyond me.
He certainly sounds annoying and unpleasant, but he hardly sounds evil. What it does sound like is a territorial pissing match over who gets to be the Ultimate Authority in your husband's life. You want to show him that you're the boss and you want your husband to take your side and say his dad is an evil dictator. It does not sound at all like your husband's prepared to do that.
By the way, the odds of you getting your husband to agree that his dad is a jerk and cut him completely out of your lives are slim. You are also likely setting up a situation where your husband is going to start tuning out all your complaints about FIL because you complain about absolutely everything he does and says.
FWIW, he did have a point with the baptism. Choosing to go OOT for a friend's shower, no matter how close you are, and skipping a major family event like a niece or nephew's baptism isn't exactly the best way to ingratiate yourself with your husband's family.
This really is something that you should have thought about before you got married. Your FIL definitely sounds like a jerk, but if he's always been that way it seems pretty unreasonable for you to now expect your husband to suddenly grow a backbone and stand up for himself and for you. Things don't just change after the wedding.
I disagree with others who said that he sounds annoying, but not really evil. The way he acts toward YOU is merely annoying, but I would classify the way he raised his children as emotionally abusive, and I can understand why you would be concerned about the impact he could have on any potential grandchildren. Even so, your husband's experience is his own and it's up to him to decide how to deal with it. Personally, I do think limiting contact and otherwise drawing boundaries is in order, and I think he could benefit from some counseling to learn how to do that. Ultimately, however, it's not a decision you can make for your husband. He is right in that his father won't change.
I think marriage counseling is in order so you can try and get on the same page about FIL, and learn to set and maintain boundaries if you decide as a couple that it's necessary.
I'm with casmgm on this one, I think your FIL can be rude and annoying but I don't think he sounds as evil as you make him out to be. If he's putting you down then your husband should be standing up for you and you should be standing up for yourself but him having opinions that you don't agree with about your weddings guests or a baby shower is not really that bad.
Some things I do agree you need to let go of, like your husband says. Face it the guy WAS the controlling person in the family, maybe it was something your MIL had agreed on when she got married, maybe it worked for their family. He's allowed to have his strong points of views, you just don't have to agree with them all.
If he's putting you down, that's where I would draw the line, not at his close minded ways.
I needed advice....I didn't need to defend my position. Clearly, the entire scope of this man can not be captured in writing.
1. My FIL mother is 85 yrs. old and still very much aware, alert, together still living on her own. She loves telling stories about her an her late husband, and of course I'm heard some of the stories numerous times, but who cares she is 85. Well, my FIL likes to entice her to tell the same stories over and over again, so he can make faces and mumble "this is the first time we've heard this story" under his breath.
2. Or when my SIL said she liked a pair of my shoes and asked me where I bought them. I told her I purchased them on ebay. My FIL's comment..."did you ever consider what color the person was who owned those shoes before you?"
3. When my husband and I were planning our wedding budget (which we paid for the vast majority of our wedding)....he wanted to know the exact dollar amount my parents contributed. First of all, my parents financial contribution or situation is none of his business. And he knew damn well unfortunately my parents couldn't contribute financially to our wedding up front. This of course translated into him wanting me and my parents to cut our list down so he could invite more people. Regardless of who gave what, it was our damn wedding and I offered numerous times to my husband that we did not need to use his parents money.
I can go on and on about stories, and rude comments made to his wife, his children his own mother.
Concerning the baptism, normally I would completely agree a baptism trumps a baby shower. However, my friend plan the baby shower around my schedule, two month before the baptism was even planned. I even told my SIL the dates that my husband and I would not be able to attend a baptism when she called and asked for our schedules. Due to her in-laws she picked the same weekend as the baby shower. At first, my husband wasn't even going to go to the baptism and I asked my husband before I bought my plane ticket if it was going to be ok for my to go to the shower and not the baptism. His response..."yes, it is fine....I'm not even sure if I'm going. It might just be the grandparents and godparents." My husband only decided to go when his dad made a big deal about it, and I was only expected to change my plans when my FIL was unhappy with our decision.
Frankly, to be completely honest, it sounds to me like you and your FIL are two peas in a pod. You're both stubborn, you both want things your way and only your way, and you'll both sacrifice the good of the (shared) family for your own personal good/benefit/wants. What you do with those traits are different (he's racist and bossy, you might not be), but the same traits exist. Could it be that's what bothers you so much?
Maybe you'll get lucky and he'll drop dead before you hit menapause.
You do realize that this man, who you hate and despise, is controlling when or if you have a child?
Weddings are pretty much the last time you have to deal with both sets of parents to do anything big in your life. If you have child, there isn't a lot he can control or manipulate. Saying "no" is pretty effective and you seem capable of doing it.
What exactly is your FIL going to do that brings such great fear?
It isn't about getting my way. I understand everyone is typically going to have an affinity to their family, their values and their traditions. If I've done something mean, disrespectful, or vandictively to him or my husband, etc, but I haven't. I realize no one is going to be just like me or my family. However, I just don't want to be around the constant making fun of his mother, his wife, my clothes, my husband's decisions, my parents financial situation or whatever else is in his line of fire that day. It isn't about be wanting to be the boss....I would just prefer to be around people who didn't treat others so meanly. I think now that I know how he is I'm less willing to do anything my FIL wants us to do, because I feel it continues to enable him. Instead of getting into a verbal battle, I simply do not take him into consideration when making decisions. Hoping he will eventually realize I am not concerned with pleasing him. If he doesn't like what we decide then it's his problem to deal with.
I'm smart enough to realize that my husband isn't going to cut his father out of his life. What do I do to keep my sanity? My BIL's wife simply doesn't speak, or at least limits her speaking to very minimal while she is in my FIL's house. My BIL and his wife moved to a part of the country where my in-laws have to fly, however everyone is well aware that my FIL can't fly due to health reasons. Do I just not talk? I would have approached my FIL directly long ago, but my husband feels this is a very bad idea and has asked me repeatedly not to address his father. Out of respect for my husband I have never spoke to my FIL about his behavior.
This is actually really funny.
Bottom line - Your FIL sounds like a hard man to get along with. He's obviously judgmental, racist, and obnoxious. However, your DH is tolerant of his behavior. Not everybody has supportive, loving fathers. That doesn't mean you have to cut him out of your life completely or make major decisions like not having children based on his actions. When he outright insults you, then he is crossing a line and it's your DH's job to step in. But if he's just making his usual obnoxious comments, I'd let it go. You shouldn't pressure your DH to cut his father out of his life simply because he's an a-hole and you don't like him.
On another note, the difference in opinions about whether or not to have children is a major issue you two need to work out sooner rather than later.
I'm smart enough to realize that my husband isn't going to cut his father out of his life. What do I do to keep my sanity? My BIL's wife simply doesn't speak, or at least limits her speaking to very minimal while she is in my FIL's house. My BIL and his wife moved to a part of the country where my in-laws have to fly, however everyone is well aware that my FIL can't fly due to health reasons. Do I just not talk? I would have approached my FIL directly long ago, but my husband feels this is a very bad idea and has asked me repeatedly not to address his father. Out of respect for my husband I have never spoke to my FIL about his behavior.
I don't think any of this is serious enough to warrant a Come To Jesus talk with your FIL or your husband. Like PPs said - FIL absolutely sounds like an annoying jerk, but "FIL from hell" is a bit of a stretch.
I would do your best to just ignore him. If he's making immature comments and teasing you, clearly he wants a reaction. Don't give him the pleasure of one. Avoid him when you can, and if he starts to tease just find a polite way to leave the room. Or change the subject, or start talking to someone else, and don't pay any more attention to him.
If it's something like a racist joke, I'd just stare at him straight-faced and say, "I don't get it." Which forces HIM to explain it (probably awkwardly) and makes HIM look like the ass. But don't get into a debate with him over it, because you just can't win with a stubborn racist. Avoid religious, political, racial and sexual topics with him, because they will only lead to a headache.
And if he straight-up says something inexcusable to you, I would just calmly say, "Don't speak to me that way. I don't treat you with disrespect like that." And if he keeps it up, walk away, or just leave the house entirely if he continues. And if it gets to the point where he's straight-up insulting you and your husband doesn't step in and tell FIL to knock it off, THEN I think that warrants the Come To Jesus talk with your husband. Something like making lame vegetarian jokes, though ... I would just ignore FIL and let it go.
I was going to say it's more about family trumping friends, but if you bought a plane ticket before the batpism was even planned I can understand how you may not have had a choice.
Honeslty I can't throw stones because I stood up in a wedding 2 years ago and committed to the shower the minute the date was planned (which was about 3-4 months prior to the event since the bride lived OOS). My H's family is famous for changing event dates 20 times before finally settling on one for good. His nephew's wife changed the date of great nephew's (and H's god son) baptism 4 times, and ended up settling on the date of the shower for the wedding in which I was a BM. Both events were local, and H, nephew, SIL, etc. were all understanding that I had committed to the shower a long time before M changed the baptism date multiple times. After the shower I met up with the family for the post-baptism ceremony gathering and everything was fine.
My mouth is still on the floor about the comment he made about the shoes......
This exactly. I know these boards are quick to jump on posters to get into therapy, but this is a case where I think it is CLEARLY needed!
It sounds more like you and your FIL are in a p^ssing match over who has control over your H now. Your FIL sounds annoying and the racist comments are out of line, but you could just say "Thats a horrible thing to say and I don't want to hear comments like that."
As far as the wedding--if you wanted your FIL to butt out, YOU and your H should have paid for it yourselves. Yes, he does get a say in a lot more when he's paying for it. The rest is just piddly stuff that makes you sound like you are looking for ways to hate and fight with him. What exactly do you want your H to do? Tell his father that he hates him? What about your MIL and your H's siblings? They don't ever get to see your H?
I am a vegan and I think this comment is really funny.
As for everything else? It is obvious your FIL won't change. You married your husband knowing what he is like and how he reacts (or doesn't) to his father. So, you have to make a decision. Can you deal for the rest of your life or not?
I really like a lot of these suggestions. Growing up, I had a grandfather that sounds fairly similar to your FIL. Some of my aunts and uncles were usually very quiet at gatherings with him. He would run the conversation, tell racist jokes, ask rude questions, etc. My cousins and I would usually retreat to the backroom and hang out there during holidays. Besides wanting to "get away from the adults", it was just a much more comfortable environment not being around my grandfather. Some times one of the ILs would try to stand up to him. It usually ended in a small spat and never changed anything. His views, sense of humor, way he treated people, all stayed the same.
Try some of the above suggestions. Have a side conversation with your SIL that does not involve him. Find ways to ignore him but do not waste your time picking a fight. The bigger thing is that you need the support of your DH. And, yes, you are correct, your kids (if you have them) will need the support of your DH. When that man asks some rude or uncomfortable question to your children, your DH needs to step in and take care of the situation. That is something I did not have. I usually just tried to ignore my grandfather while my parents said nothing.
Good luck.