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Another tax return post
ETA: DH and I each have our own checking and savings accounts in addition to a joint checking and savings we share. So every paycheck we each put x-amount into the joint checking and are free to do whatever we want with the rest of our check, so total we have 6 accounts (3-checking, 3-savings)
I'm just thinking about DH and I's (hopeful) return....since this is our first time filing together (planning on doing married-jointly status, but will see what gives us largest return), we'll need to figure out how to do the refund.
I'm wondering if I'm being greedy, or reasonable, to think that since I make twice as much as DH, then we should divide the return into third's, and he gets 1/3 and I get 2/3.
That is, not to say I'll spend it all, as I plan on saving most, but at the same time I've worked hard for my money (not to say DH hasn't though) and in the end it will most likely go towards buying a house...so since we're an official unit now, should it be split equally? Or is it okay for me to want my "share".
WDYT? Or would will you do?
Re: Another tax return post
I'm not sure I understand... do you have separate bank accounts or something?
With Joe and I there is no splitting, it's 2 accts, 1 main, 1 savings, and I file head of household b/c I make more.
Oh duh, good point! I put in an ETA. We have both separate and joint accounts.
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We are just putting ours in our joint account that pays for all house related things. We have a family vacation we are being forced to go on so we are using it towards that, but if we didn't have a pre-designated destination for our return we would probably just use it for around the house stuff that benefits both of us.
I guess if you are just going to use it as fun money to buy yourself something new (which I would like to do!) then maybe you could look at splitting it like you said. I would just talk to your husband about and see what he thinks, especially since he would be getting less.
We also have separate accounts and joint accounts. I would, though, use it for whatever you need to use it for the most. If you have a big student loan or something, then it makes sense for most of it to go to you, but also vice verse. Since you mentioned you're likely putting it into house savings, why not just put it into joint savings?
Like you, I feel comfortable having a little padding for myself in my own savings, but in an emergency or job loss, that would be the last thing we'd touch, so it's more important to me to have joint savings so it's transparent and we each know how well we're doing in saving for our mutual goals.
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IMHO - I would never do this. We decided we are a unit, so we take each others debts along with each others incomes, so it'd be crazy for me to start splitting something like our tax return.
Just curious.. Why file Married/Jointly if you want to claim "your" portion in the end? Just file separately and whatever each of you get is what you get.
If the situation was reversed, I'd kick Mike in the shin for even asking..
Interesting feedback!
At this point we haven't discussed combining finances entirely and haven't really even considered it.
Like Meredith made me think of, there are some entities that are entirely seperate, like I have $6K in student loans and DH was fortunate enough not to have any. And although I've mentioned them several times, I am certain that DH doesn't recognize them as "ours" but instead as "mine-Hannahs".
In addition, DH's company doesn't offer a 401K and he currently doesn't have anything set up (which his point is that he's 24 and has time, but I entirely disagree as I started a 401K when I was 18 and starting getting paid internships). So there are several things that we have separate. Although, obviously in when we retire, it is true that my 401K would go towards supporting both of us and i wouldn't use that money for just me.
To answer Kearstin's question, from a quick reference, if we file married-separately, we'll owe $5,000 more in taxes (pre-deductions) than if we file married-jointly, so we currently plan on filing married-joint
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This!!!
DH and I maintain both joint and separate personal savings/checking/credit card accounts - stuff that comes out of the personal accounts (which get $250 per pay period, all the rest goes to joint) are gifts to each other (so we don't see the purchases on Quicken), and personal splurges that the other doesn't need to know the cost of (i.e.: if I break down and try Creme de La Mer's eye cream, or his video games). DH is already planning to save his personal savings for a mid-life crisis sports car in 15 years. LOL... I like this in that most of our income goes to joint, but we still have autonomy for buying things we each independently want.
Anything we get back from our tax return would go into our joint savings for further investment, or to pay lovely things like (sigh) property tax.
We maintain separate accounts in addition to a joint account. A percentage of our pay check gets deposited into our own accounts with the largest portion going to our joint account. The separate accounts are for gift buying and spending on things that we like to splurge on for ourselves (me - my scrapbooking/crafts, him - well nothing, he ends up just hoarding it).
Any money we get will likely be put towards our now joint debt (car, house, student loans) or joint savings. Depending on the amount, it's not out of the question that we'll decide together on an amount that we can each spend (or save) how we want.
Try thinking of it this way...What happens if one day you or him become a stay at home parent. Or one of you loses your job. Are you now entitled to nothing because you don't bring in any income? Why should that be different than bringing in a larger income?
This is the same for us too! Especially on the gift thing. And like you say, it's nice that I can go buy something stuff, like a fun necklace and not have DH down my back...and I could careless that he spent a ton of money on beer-making supplies that night b/c that's his "spending" money and he can do what he wants with it.
Although I am thinking that we do need to have a convo about a (potential) return. And now definitely think a 1/3 vs 2/3 division isn't the way to go. We'll just have to figure out something that works for us, hopefully some student loans, some fun spending and majority in joint savings
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This. For what it's worth, I also make more than my husband (by a lot), but I didn't even consider splitting it into uneven portions before we talked about it. If there was something big I wanted for myself, then maybe I would have asked for a bigger slice. But since we're at a point in our lives where we're trying to save as much together as quickly as we can, it's not a consideration. We've decided that a big chunk of our joint return will go towards my credit card bill (which we've used a lot recently to buy things for the new apartment, and for a trip to FL to see his sister and her family), he'll keep some spending money, I'll keep some spending money, and the rest goes into our joint savings.
But what works best for other people won't necessarily work best for you and your husband. Talking about money is tough, especially when there's a disparity, but it's really important.
This is an excellent point.
My thoughts have changed since my initial 1/3-2/3 idea post the bottom line is that DH and I need to have a convo about taxes, and responsibilities in general.
When initially posting, I guess I felt "entitled" to "my" share b/c I feel like I do so much for us...which is the underlying problem, this should probably be an enitrely separate post own it's own, but for the heck of it, I'm going to post here:
The problem is responsibility and control. I have a really dominant personality and I like to be "in control", which is why, we both agree, we get along so well. DH is really passive and go with the flow. So I made up a budget, sent it to DH, he said looks good and now he puts a % of each check into our joint account and I do the same. But I'm also the one who cooks everynight, cleans, keeps inventory of household items and does the shopping...so in some ways, I feel that for all of the extra "stuff" I do, I should some how be rewarded maybe?
The thing is that I don't mind doing it b/c 1. it's just how I am but 2. B/c I love him and I am willing to do things for him/us to keep him happy (he's a b!tch at the grocery store).
Hmm, I'm not sure if this post is a vent, a realization, or what to make of it. So please, ignore, or respond whatever you feel like :O)
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We're like you, Hannah. Our CCs and student loans are our own debt and those payments come out of our own money, not the joint account. Joint account is for household bills and savings towards a house, kids, emergencies, etc. But Oliver and I are roughly equal in the debt we currently owe.
Speaking of 401k, Oliver isn't contributing much to his right now, and I'm like "dude, I only have about $10k in retirement so far. I can't support you too!" Lol.
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Grrrr, I just wrote out this detailed response and then it said an error had occured. The Nest (at least on my computer) is sucking lately, it's taking forever to do anything.
Anyway, long story short, we each have our own accounts and then have a joint account together but basically never use the joint account. Whoever has the most money in their account gets the lucky honor of paying the majority of bills that month lol. I made A LOT more than Jason did in 2010, but I don't see it as 'my' money anymore. Our return will probably go into my account simply because I tend to be more responsible with getting the bills paid on time. We're both really good about it being our money now though, so as long as the bills are paid on time, and we have money to grocery shop, then we don't worry about the logistics of how it all works.
You are not alone...I pretty much run the household too. Ken helps, but I shoulder most of the work. I guess it comes down to the fact that I want things a certain way. Ken doesn't make me clean, cook dinner, etc, but I want a clean house and something other than spaghetti-o's (which make me gag) every night for dinner. Doing all of this is the price I pay for having the life I want, but it doesn't mean that I don't wish that I didn't have to do it all.
Like Meredith, we're also each paying our own debt for now but that might change or maybe once it's all paid, then we'll switch it up and do a joint account or something. I've been on my own for more than 15 years, so it's still hard for me to imagine a time when I wouldn't have my own account for some reason.
As for feeling like you do all the work, that's a conversation you need to have with your husband. If he's a pain at the grocery store, then that's a task that you do alone and he takes something else. I think the the division of labor should be as close to equal as possible. Otherwise one person is usually going to feel taken for granted/taken advantage of and, for example, start feeling like she deserves more of the tax return.
Seriously, though, he might not even be aware that you feel like you do everything. I'm a control person, too, but I've had to give over some of that control and letting him do things so that I could be sane. That means maybe something isn't done to my standard, but it's done and it's good enough and I can relax.
We have a "gift" category in our budget, so if I want to surprise Matt with a gift (or for Christmas/etc.) I just withdraw the amount that I need, deduct it from the gift category, and he doesn't know what it was spent on. Amazon is also great for gifts, because since they have everything, there's no telling what I bought. We also have "blow" money (a.k.a. "spend on whatever you want") and I can save some of that up to buy a gift.
As far as debt. We both brought debt to the marriage. But now it is "our" debt. Looking at it as "ours" instead of "mine" and "his" helps us with traction. We are following Dave Ramsey's debt snowball, so we listed our debts smallest to largest and are just paying things down as they come. Since November we've paid off $16K, so it is working!
Another benefit to having all of our money together is that it forces us to be on the same page. Since money fights/money problems are one of the leading causes of divorce, we want to do everything that we can to eliminate that as an issue in our marriage. We plan out our budget a month in advance, and make changes as necessary throughout the month, but we always know exactly what is coming in and going out. It helps us to not live paycheck to paycheck, and to really move ahead with our financial goals.
***stepping off of soapbox***
As far as household responsibilities, I'm so much like you are, Hannah! I work full-time, balance the checkbook, do the laundry, cook, grocery shop, etc. It's not that Matt isn't willing to help out, he just doesn't see what needs to be done like I do. I heard a statistic once that when a woman gets married her workload doubles, and when a man gets married his work load decreases by 25%. We're getting the raw end of that deal!
Also, thank you to those who shared your financial set-ups. It really does seem to just depend on the couple and our own individual circumstances.
That being said, I'm going to suggest we each get a small amount of spending money and perhaps a bit to my student loans but the majority in our joint savings account. Of course, this is all based on the hopeful assumption we get a return!
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Very well said. When Alan and I first moved in together, I felt like I was doing everything. After a few weeks, I was really starting to get resentful and I finally blew up one night. It turned out that he was more than happy to help out, I just needed to let him and, in some cases, lower my standards a bit. Now I'd say the work is about even, because he picks up the things that I hate doing, and I pick up the things that he hates doing. And really, him taking care of the trash and washing the bathtub is worth all the laundry in the world.
Another benefit to having all of our money together is that it forces us to be on the same page. Since money fights/money problems are one of the leading causes of divorce, we want to do everything that we can to eliminate that as an issue in our marriage. We plan out our budget a month in advance, and make changes as necessary throughout the month, but we always know exactly what is coming in and going out. It helps us to not live paycheck to paycheck, and to really move ahead with our financial goals.
See, I think having my own account helps us not have money fights. Putting enough in the joint account to cover expenses and savings is great. We both know where that money is going and coming from. But I want to know how much money *I* have to spend. I don't want to worry when I go to write a check that maybe my husband has already bought x or y with that money. I went on vacation with someone who only had joint checking once, and she had that issue on vacation - her husband was also using that money for bills and food, and being gone for 2 weeks, it was hard to communicate what was there or what she could use. I also don't want my spouse looking at my disposable income spending and judging my Starbucks addiction.
But a lot of that comes from living in a house where my mom didn't work for several years and had to BEG my father for every single $20 bill he gave her. My dad was/is extremely tight with money. Which means he never has debt, except for his mortgage, but means he never has fun, either. He sticks to his grocery list at ALL times, socks away the maximum amount allowed for retirement, etc. We would go to our summer cottage all summer when I was little and my dad would only come up on the weekends, since he had to work during the week. He'd do the grocery shopping while he was there and not leave ANY money (or a car) because we "didn't need it." I just don't ever want to feel that helpless.
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Hannah - I used to begrudge Oliver the lack of work he did. Like yes, honey, it's nice to come home and lay on the couch while watching football, but the dining room is a disaster.
I now have a "chore list." Not a chore chart where we assign things, but more like a list reminding me when to do things. That way there are 2-3 little tasks I can do each night to keep things clean and picked up. And Oliver has no excuse to not know what needs to be done in a given week because he walks by the fridge too. So even if he's not the one who volunteers to do laundry or the cat box, at least it doesn't come out of the blue that we have to do those on Wednesday and Saturday. And usually he'll volunteer to do one of them, or agree if I ask.
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It is obvious you did not discuss finances before you got married. We did. While we are in a very different financial state than most on the board. We are about 13 years from retirement and we each brought financial assets in to the marriage and little to no debt. I had a mortgage, he paid me half the value of the house and I added the remaining money to pay off the mortgage. We are now debt free. We have a joint account for everything we do after we got married. Taxes are considered to be after marriage. I know I overpaid taxes and he underpaid so we may not get a refund. That is ok. We did document our assets as a prenupt. DH just went through a nasty divorce and learned what is considered joint and separate. Inheritance is seperate so we are keeping our accounts from pre-marriage as separate but all new income other than inheritance goes in the joint account. All expenses come from the joint account when we get it all finally set up.
In a few years the amount of money you are quibbling about will be insignificant compared to your income, savings, debt, etc.
My recommendation is to pay off debt unless it is such a low rate and you can get better return on that money another way.
Good luck with your financial discussions with DH.