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MIL debt/Vent
I apologize in advance because I need to vent and blow off steam before I go home to my husband to discuss this.
Since we started dating, my husband's mother has been juggling credit cards for him. When his free 0% introductory offer was over, she balance transfer to another. She did this twice, I think, and she's pretty much been keeping track of them, I guess. Since we were only dating (as an fyi: we just got married in Sept), it really wasn't my place to say anything about how he handled it, because he was okay with it (even though I'm not because it's <i>fraud</i>, but whatever...). So, within the last couple years, she's called once or twice to tell him that she didn't have any money that month and needs to charge her car payment on his credit card (fraud), but that she would make the payments on it. I was seriously mad about it, but again, his mother, his problem. I would tell him how I felt but he would just counter with something to the effect of "Well if she needs to, she needs to. I don't want my mom to be homeless" and he'd kind of shrug it off.
Well, I was checking his email a week or so ago (which he knows I do, because he doesn't, I just tell him what's important) and there was a notice from BofA that his limit was being reduced. I got concerned and asked his mom about it and she said it was weird and said BofA has been doing that lately (which they have) so I thought nothing of it. The today, there was a notice of overdue payment. So I called in to make the payment and found out that the balance on the account was 2,400.00. Husband hasn't used the card at all...that's all her.
A month or so back, I'd asked Husband if he'd mind if I checked his credit (because I was concered about what MIL was doing). Well, I finally got around to it today.
I discovered 3 other credit cards and one Radio Shack credit. But here's the thing. One of the balances is $6400.00. And I'm sorry, I work at a bank and he works frieght for a Hallmark. That's a pretty friggin big number to us. I'm 99% positive he has no idea this balance exists because when we were planning how to use our refund check, he only mentioned paying down the one card he uses.
I can only assume that my MIL has racked up $6400.00 on his credit card, plus the one he knew about and the other 2 I saw...it's over $10,000.00. Oh my god, I think I just had a heart attack writing that!!!
I'm going straight home to talk to him about it, because I'm only working off of assumptions and not hard facts, but if it <i>was</i> him, I'm still pissed.
Thank you for listening to (reading?) me vent, but if I didn't, I'd be going in guns a-blazin' and that is *not* what we need right now, I think.
Re: MIL debt/Vent
So you knew this was happening and you married him anyway? Sorry, but you have no sympathy from me.
I would have never married my H if he allowed his mother to use his credit cards.
Sara, Friend?
glove slap. I don't take crap.
This. Good luck with that conversation. I'm not sure what's worse - him letting her do it or her doing it without his knowledge. I hope that if she did it without his consent that this will be the push that he needs to become an adult.
Why on earth did you think it wasn't within your rights or best interest to tell him this wasn't okay before you were married?
I don't think I would hestitate to go in guns a-blazin' at this point.
That is so weird that you wouldn't even mention (while dating/engaged) that he's free to do whatever he wants to help his mom when it's just him but when it's the both of you there needs to be another arrangement. Especially concerning finances. Why didn't you tell your H how not ok you were with him sharing his credit card with his mom?
I'll probably catch sh!t for this from some people but yeah: when you foind out when ou were dating that his mother was more or less in charge of money for him, you should have said goodbye. And did so post haste.
Please run a credit check on yourself and your husband -- and if you have kids, do the same; run a credit check on them.
YOu also have an H problem, not a MIL problem. Good luck with trying to get this financial tsumani straightened out.
And yes: an attorney would be a very wise thing. Like, NOW.
Your H is never going to see that money or get it back. His choices now are to pay it off (the two of you) or risk the loss of his credit rating. Since he agreed to allow MIL to use his info to apply for cards, he can't even go to the police (even if he wnated to), b/c then he is complicit in an effort to defraud the credit card companies (vs. his mom defrauding him).
Nobody uses a radio shack card to keep from going homeless. This is about your MIL spending above her means. Credit cards are not ATMs where money magically appears for free.
You and he need to have a long discussion about money, your credit and his mom. You need to tell him that going forward it is NOT ok for his mom to "borrow" money in his name. It is the same as taking money from the two of you, and you (plural) cannot afford it. Ask him if this is going to continue, b/c if it is - you can't stay married to him and will file for separation (if you're not willing to do this, then you deserve the consequences to your own credit).
Then have your H call the credit card reporting bureaus and say that he suspects there was fraud on his account, and that he does not want any cards increased in credit availability or any new cards without having them phone him and ask for a password. Heck, he should tell YOU to make up the password and not give it to him, since I'm sure his mom will pressure him to give him access to credit. I would suggest you do the same thing to prevent MIL from using your info as well.
Then I would suggest he and your mom go to a credit counseling service, explain what happened, and come up with a payment plan. YOU and DH will have to come up with the money to pay the bills. His mom will never pay them, and I wouldn't trust her to pay them off if she said she would. Hopefully they can reduce the bills and sometimes lower the interest and penalties.
HE will have to cut up all of his credit cards if he goes to a counseling service, but I think you will still be able to have a credit card - at least an Amex. At the very worst, you will have to stick to debit cards while he pays off the loans.
I also suggest you and DH go to marital / family counseling as well. This is a problem in your relationship, and will be until you work together in a plan of action.
Connect your MIL with any social services that can help her out - meals on wheels, senior housing, perscription plans - that will lower her expenditures and provide her with services she needs.
I don't know how you can say its fraud when your H knew that his mom was opening cards, transferring balances and charging HER stuff (car pmts, etc). Your H is responsible to pay these cards and as long as he doesn't care that his mom is using them, you're going to have to keep using YOUR/Your H's money to pay for them. Unfortunately, I think she'll probably still do it if your H tells her to stop. You don't just rack up 10K in debt just because...she should have bought a car she could afford. This would be a deal breaker for me. I'd tell your H that he needs to end it, get the cards paid, keep track of his credit report and stop enabling his mother.
ETA: Your H should first get his mother try transferring the debt into her name...but that will likely fail as I'm sure she has more excess spending in her own name/credit cards.
Time to not stick your head in the sand (like you did before you were married) and get this issue under control! Looks like someone is going to need a second job!
She's got a spending problem or some other addction. If you ask her where all this money is going, wonder what the answer will be.
And who knows how many more cards there are you may not know about?
I'm in full agreement that marriage with eyes-wide open to this was not smart. But that is being said, I think, more for the benefits of anyone tripping across this post who are pre-marriage and finding themselves facing the same. They should learn from your mistake.
Additionally, your remaining silent because of what he "might" do is not fair at all to your husband or your MIL. They're screwy in their own way - but that was a really foolish gamble for you to take. Stop doing that.
However, I don't think that our past mistakes should just continue because, hey, we've already made the situation bad we should just keep it up - that's not good sense either.
Also - I didn't know transferring from one 0% account to another was fraud. I haven't been in the position to have to do that, but always thought that it was a smart move for people trying to reduce their debt (versus continue to build their debt).
I'm confused, though - if you were in charge of the mail, have you not been receiving the monthly bills? Weren't you aware of credit building?
I definitely would contact a lawyer, as has been suggested. You need to find out if your DH approved, as he has been, these other lines of credit for his mother to open. Personally - I don't think it is so much fraud if he's given his ok. I don't know how the eyes of the law would look at it...which is why you need to get a lawyer. Too, if he hasn't, you both need to contact these companies ASAP and put a freeze. Obviously, contacting your mother-in-law for all receipts and picking up as many items as can be returned to do so.
Then you need to have a very earnest and clear discussion (if you haven't had it since posting) with your husband about your finances. You need to take over all finances at this point, since he's a bit more loose with taking care of things. You and he need to seek MIL in person and forbid her from using her son's SSN or credit again. You need to make it clear that she needs to reduce her lifestyle and start paying back the monies...and clearly, that needs to be done through a lawyer, not just a handscrawled I.O.U. and let her know that you both are fully serious about enforcing it with legal action should she default.
close the accounts. NOW. IMMEDIATELY! you both are responsible for her financial indescretions. if he stops making her car payment she won't be homeless-she'll have to figure it out for herself. at worst they'd take her car if she defaults a few times. maybe she'll learn her lesson....and your DH will learn his.
btw-that would've been a deal breaker for me. never would i have married him. never.
Call the card company, tell them that they were unauthorized charges and see what they say... I would also ask for a print out of EVERYTHING that has been charged to each account, highlight what is MIL and what is DH's. Give her a copy of the bill and tell her to fix it immediately or there will be ramifications...
My DH's mother did this with a cell phone and I point blank said that if the bill was not transferred into her name by the end of the work day, it would be shut off and she would no longer have a cell phone. <-- she fixed it and now pays her own damnn bill.
Good luck - DH needs to stop enabling her... You guys need to deal with your own financial stuff and tell her that she needs to hand hers.
Pretty much everything that the PP said.
I wanted to add that I don't think you should blow off steam before you go talk to your H. This is a dealbreaking situation, so I think he should see exactly how pissed off you are.
I hope you realize that this is very much your business now that you are married. Don't let your husband try to tell you this is none of your business because its his mother and his social security number/debt. ALL debt accumulated after the date of your wedding is now your responsibility as well and these creditors can come after you. Also, God forbid something ever happen to your hubby, you will be fully responsible for every cent, not her.
Not to mention, she is ruining your credit as a couple and if this can ruin any plans you have to purchase a new home, car, etc. If you already have a home and payments aren't made, these creditors can put a lien on your home if it is worth their while. Times are hard enough right now without other people ruining your credit to make it harder. This would be terms for divorce for me, you need to protect yourself.
Transferring from one card to another to take advantage of low-interest rates is not fraud. Indeed, that is why the credit card companies actually market to people to do just that. Nor was it fraud for her to make charges to his cards with his approval (even if that was a blanket approval as it sounds like it may have been). There may be a case if she has been signing his name for things, but I wonder if she is not somehow named as a supplementary holder of some sort here....
It WAS fraudulent for her to take out cards in his name he was not aware of, though and make charges, if that happened.
And what made you think it was a good idea not to say a word about this before you were married, and get married knowing that he gave control of his credit cards to his mother in the first place is beyond me. Part of the process of deciding if someone is a suitable marriage partner for you is discussing both small and big things...including finances, financial habits, beliefs, practices.... if you were not on the same page about these things, that should have been a reason not to get married.
Anything that has gone on since you got married is now your debt too. If you cannot pay this off, this is going to be a major hit to your credit rating.
It is time for a very straightforward come-to-Jesus talk with your husband. Because ultimately, this is a husband issue. Your MIL was totally in error to take out cards and make charges beyond what she had said she wouldm but the buck stops with your H for ever giving that much control of his financials to his mother in the first place.
Sorry I haven't had a chance to reply...my best friend has been in the hospital for having her water break at 30 weeks on Monday, so between work, school, and the hospital, I haven't had much time for anything!
Just so everyone knows, I understand how credit works and how this is a huge deal to our credit rating, hence the big blow-up.
When it started, I expressed to my husband that I was not happy with his decision, but at the time, it was not my place to tell him what to do. I did marry him knowing that she had used his credit card a few times to make a few payments, thinking it was maybe a few hundred dollars and that it should be mostly paid down by now, based on when it happened. If that was the case, it wouldn't have been a big deal. But obviously it wasn't...She hasn't missed a payment until just this month, so that's good. The reason I had no idea the balances were as high as they are is because all of the statements are being sent to her house, so I never saw them.
I had a serious discussion with my husband and he had no idea it was that high either. He's a pretty big goofball,so for him to be as upset about it as he was, he took it pretty seriously. He did end up giving his mom the call he dreaded to talk about it. She of course cried and apologized and said she never wanted it to get this much, etc. She told him that she has a plan to pay off the largest balance within the next year, so that's a good start (her car payments just ended, so it gives her some extra cash to put towards it now). So I told my husband we'll see where it is in a year and go from there. If the balances haven't gone down significantly, then I'll tell her she needs to borrow money from her mother to pay them off and get it off our credit. No cards have been opened since 2008, so I don't think she'll open any more at this point, especially since she knows we'll be checking now. I might also add that she needs to get some credit counseling, I hadn't thought of that.
Thank you for the constructive comments, especially about credit counseling...I'm going to see if there's a free one where she lives.
So your H switched the address for the statements so that they come directly to you? and your H has taken all of the cards from her? Why can't she borrow the money now and clear this up? If your H is going to work out a payment plan with her then she should be giving your H the cash each month to ensure the payment is made.
Best of luck to your friend.