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What says TIP...
Ok, ladies. I need some third-party advice. I know I?m going to get burnt to a crisp for this but I need objective opinions. I?m not ?new? to the board, just new to posting. I?ve lurked for a while (since 2008)?I guess I?m finally ready to put my big girl panties on and listen to what y?all have to say.
2 years ago, I cheated on my husband. I came clean about everything. I have done a lot of self evaluation to learn why I went looking for attention elsewhere. Luckily, I now know the answer. Unfortunately, I became someone I hate. We began couples counseling in January 2010 and phased out of it in October 2010. While we?ve made some improvements, there are things I just cannot look past (and things he cannot look past either, obviously). I immediately cut off all contact with the other man (OM) and cut off contact with the majority of my friends for his comfort. I changed my cell number and have taken drastic measures to ensure his comfort. All together, I pretty much say ?how high?? when he says jump.
I visited Surviving Infidelity often when this happened. I found hope for our situation. Counseling helped as well. We made wonderful strides forward. I went out of my way daily to make sure he felt loved and knew I loved (still do) him and wanted to make our relationship work. Our communication grew leaps and bounds?until we got pregnant. Yes, I know some of you are slamming your heads against your desk and wondering why he even thought about A) staying and 
having a child with me. To this day, I know neither of these answers. The duration of my pregnancy he kept everything bottled up. There are maybe one or two occasions when he told me how he felt, which sent me into a hormonal crying fit. I cried for how I hurt him, how I hurt our family (his side mostly), how I betrayed his trust. I cried for his forgiveness.
Fast forward to today. DD is 6 ? months old and as new parents, life is stressful. We are both in the finance industry to that compounds our stressors. We work together- as in get ready for work together, drive to work together, work on the same team, drive home together, eat dinner together?see the pattern? The only time we really have away from one another is when the other is @ the gym.
Here is where I begin to struggle and I will try to be as articulate and succinct as possible. I?ve lost ?me? in all of this. I have no idea who I really am anymore. I don?t know what I like anymore. I?d love to try new activities, but he has absolutely no trust in me, even after 2 years, to go and try something new. I?m talking a painting class or dance class; I?m not talking about a trying a new club. Those days are long gone. Something, anything new. He?ll fuss at me to the point where both of our days are ruined if I wear something that has any sort of a low neckline. His idea of a low neckline is non-turtleneck. When I?m ?allowed? to do something, I have to text or call him when I get there, while I?m there and before I leave. If I don?t text or my plans change and can?t get a hold of him, all hell breaks loose.
So you know what I mean when I say ?plans change?, let me give you one of the most recent examples. I went to lunch with my mom, aunt and daughter a few weeks ago. After lunch, they offered to keep her while I ran to Michael?s for supplies for 2 crafts. I tried calling him on my way, but he didn?t answer. I did not text him. My trip lasted about 40 minutes max, including drive time. When I got home and told him how lunch was and that I went to Michael?s, he got incredibly irritated. I got the cold shoulder for 2 days because I did not try every method to get in contact with him. If that didn't paint a good enough picture for you, how about this? Over the weekend, we celebrated our anniversary at a new, and very delicious italian restaurant. The GM waited on us because we arrived when they were closing and they were gracious enough to seat us. He says the GM was flirting w/me all night. I didn't see it and told him it's hard to see something like that when you're not open to it. I am "not allowed" to go to the restaurant unless he is with me. My mom and I usually go out to eat when our DHs are away and that's the case this week...
Moving on, I am ?limited? to what I can wear. The baggier the better. I am limited to who I can talk to. I am limited to what I can do. When we get in any kind of argument, he defaults to the affair even if it had nothing to do with said argument. It?s always my fault. Doesn?t matter what the issue is, it?s my fault.
I know he?s not happy. I?m not happy either. I try so hard to be good to him. He deserves a loving wife and he didn?t deserve what was done to him. I love him so much and there are days I absolutely cannot imagine anyone else in my life as my DH. Despite what we?ve gone through, I love him dearly. When does it become the point of emotional/ verbal abuse or just a matter or poor coping skills? I cannot imagine myself in this situation 20 years down the road. I would hate my life. I am already beginning to do so now. I can?t help but feel like a child, an insubordinate, not his equal.
So thanks if you made it this far. I?d really appreciate CONSTRUCTIVE criticism. I know there?s a lot wrong with our relationship. Maybe I?m looking for someone to tell me they?ve been where I am and that it gets better. Maybe I?m asking for advice on whether this relationship is salvageable. Maybe I?m asking if his behavior is normal. I?m incredibly embarrassed to even be posting this to a bunch of folks on the internet. I?ll answer your questions, but I?m embarrassed. I don?t want to get defensive so it may take a bit to respond. I?d rather not say something beebeeish and GBCTIP.
Zips up flame retardant suit and waits for frozen oranges and staplers.
Re: What says TIP...
What did you figure out about why you had the affair?
Also, you are now living an example of why people say it's better to end a relationship after an affair. I don't know how long it went on, how much sneaking there was, etc. However it's clear that the trust has been broken and hasn't really been repaired.
Prior to the affair, did your husband have rules or expectations for you that were at all similar to now?
Your husband doesn't trust you. IMO, you can't have a good marriage without trust. If he is never going to be able to trust you again, you might consider moving on. It sounds like a separation really could make both of your lives much less stressful. He doesn't have to spend all that energy keeping tabs on you any longer and you don't have to keep getting punished any longer.
I know that's probably not what you wanted to hear, but if he is not giving you any room on the leash after 2 years and nearly a year of counseling, I don't know that he ever will. I can understand his perspective, but you have a life to live too.
Well, I can't speak to what is normal or not normal for your DH. And I've always felt that if you cheat, you have to be prepared to be an open book if you want to earn back trust.
But what seems to be going on here is that you're willing to do all you can do to get his forgiveness AND to earn back his trust. It seems like he isn't willing to give it back to you, though. Is he right or wrong? I don't know. How long is it supposed to take? I don't know.
I'll tell you, though, I don't know that I could live this life. You love him, that's all find and dandy. Doesn't necessarily mean that you're meant to be with him. I hear you - at what point does this turn from you trying to earn his trust back to him maintaining an unhealthy level of control over you?
I think if you want to save this marriage, you HAVE to go back to counseling and start dealing w/ these issues. You really hardly gave your marriage any time to heal before you got PG. What's done is done, but you all moved way too quickly on that part.
~Benjamin Franklin
DS dx with celiac disease 5/28/10
Jessimau, you're right. The trust has not been repaired. Prior to the affair, there were no rules. Just common sense. I think the expectations of him for me to love hime never changed. I think his expectations as far as me checking in definitely have.
To answer your first question about the "why" is a little difficult. We were both in bad spots in our lives and neither of us was willing to give unconditionally to the other. I was the one who did wrong and stepped out. Our communication was terrible. Neither of us was being heard by the other. Neither of us was getting the attention they wanted from the other.
Do you think the trust can EVER be repaired?
I'm not quite sure what I wanted to hear. But oddly enough, the responses so far are comforting to know I haven't just lost it in thinking this is normal. You used a word I've used in "secret" for how I've felt and that's punished.
This could be the most stupid question of all time, but what happens when he refuses to go to counseling. Often I've heard on the boards, if he/she is unwilling to go, they're unwilling to make an effort in the marriage. Would I be playing the marytr (SP?) if I let this go on too long?
ETA: I totally agree with you the baby came along farrrrrr too early. We didn't have a chance to really straighten out the issues and rebuild trust. Although, I wouldn't trade DD for the world!
If he refuses to go to counseling, then yes, I feel he doesn't want to put any effort into the marriage. At this point, it doesn't matter that you did something wrong. YOU are now unhappy, the marriage is faltering - either he wants to fix it or he doesn't.
And maybe he doesn't. maybe he's given up, but he wants you to also be the bad guy who walks away.....
~Benjamin Franklin
DS dx with celiac disease 5/28/10
You need to sit down and have a completely open talk with him and tell him that you need to get back to counseling. If he won't go then you pretty much have to decide if you want to continue living like this.
It's sh*tty that you cheated on him, but he is continuing to hold onto his resentment. So neither one of you is doing the other any favors.
We're kind of going out.
That really sucks to hear. I feel selfish for wanting to move on with my/our life though. Guess that's another topic to discuss @ counseling. Hoping you don't think iIm nuts, I'm definitely going to give this one more hearty go. And lots of very open conversations.
Thanks to all for your responses and for not flaming me. I've always appreciated the advice you gave to others. I know what I did was wrong and I feel terrible for it. I've never wanted to change something in the past so bad than taking back what I did to him. I wish I could have seen what I was doing when I was doing it.
In this case, no. He's controlling everything you do, wear, or say because he does not trust you and it's just easier to control your behavior than to actually deal with why he doesn't trust you.
He brings up the affair because he knows it's emotional weight with you, so he's using it as leverage. Whether he is over the affair or not (he's not) is immaterial, it's a tool for him to control you.
You said it yourself, in 20 years you'll hate yourself if this is still your life--what about in 2 years? It's time to call it a day with this marriage--you tried to repair it and the repairs won't hold.
I agree with this.
It seems that living like a dog on a leash for two years hasn't shown him that you mean what you say but it has taught him to like the control he has over you. I don't see anything more you can do here and I predict he's only going to enjoy the control more as time passes.
If it weren't for the cheating, I'd worry he wasn't working on an abuse cycle with you. He still might be. He's devalued you enough. And while it's tempting to believe that you deserve to be devalued, there's a fine line here one that he crossed when he started telling you how to dress and banned you from certain establishment due to perceived behavior on the part of someone who isn't in the equation.
Transparency =/= control. He either has to forgive you and let you live a normal life as his wife within reason or the marriage is over. And honestly, as kuus said, if he hasn't by now, he never will.
Click me, click me!
I don't think you guys were ready to stop counseling. Any good counselor will tell you it's not okay for him to always bring the affair up during an argument and throw it in your face.
Honestly, it's been two years and he's not over it so I don't think he's ever going to get over it. I'm sure he wants to be over it, but he just can't move on.
How much longer are you going to give him to get over it? Would you guys consider going back to counseling?
You gotta do what you gotta do. You have to take care of yourself and that kid. Can you imagine growing up in a household where Daddy doesn't trust Mommy to go to the store alone? What is that going to teach her?
Good luck to you.
You messed up, but you know that so I won't send any flames your way for that.
He has every right to not trust you for cheating on him. At the same time, it sounds like you've done everything you possibly could to start earning his trust back. If, after two years, he still feels like he needs to exert this level of control over your life, I have doubts as to whether you all can move past this.
I think you definitely need to go back to counseling, and talk about these issues. If he wants to stay in the marriage, he has to do some work too. If he isn't willing to go, then I'd agree with the PP who said that he's not really willing to save your marriage.
He'd also have to *WANT* to repair it. It sounds like he doesn't want to forgive/repair, he's much happier exerting control over you and having you do pennance and playing the victim for the rest of your married lives.
To be fair to the guy, I could see maybe feeling like you should want to repair it, but deep down feeling like you didn't break it and therefore shouldn't have to fix it. I get that. And I get feeling like the person who hurt you should be punished exactly as long as you feel the hurt. I get where he's coming from. But I get where the OP is coming from, too. It just seems like a bad situation at this point with no real resolution except cutting ties as much as possible.
This is *exactly* what I was worried about...the control issue. I'm glad someone else picks up on it too.
I don't think trust can be even created in this marriage.
It sounds like he isn't willing to give unconditionally again. And it has left you with that same bitter taste in your mouth.
Honestly there is no hope if he can't give you more than what he has. He needs to make some rules of conduct, some reasonable ones. And start to work on a progressive plan of trust with you. Having rules and regulations drop off from time to time as he learns you aren't going to cheat again. He needs to act according to these rules as well so that if he steps over the boundary (i.e. you flirting with men in front of him when it is really conversation) he is held accountable. Counseling is a must along with the want and drive to make it.
But it would take more work and effort than I think you two have in you. I don't think he has it in him.
Check us out
If you feel like you are in a leash you should leave him. But I am not sure this is exactly what it is all about. You see him 24/7 with work and the baby, and then you are gone alone without any worries, cares or responsibilities and I think he had a bit of a meltdown.
You guys need time apart that is easy for him to learn to trust with. Like is there a way for you to take some Mommy and Me classes? Or in your work, is there a way for you to spend time without him, maybe on another assignment? Maybe hang out with some people that he loves and trusts like family members or friends?
Look, all in all he has a right to be afraid and want you to do these things, and you have a right to say no, this is not what we agreed on in therapy, I will talk to you about it next therapy session.
If he doesn't have it in him to try, and you are sounding more and more like you don't either, it is time to come up with and exit plan. What will happen to your work if you divorce?
Check us out
I'm sorry, but it doesn't sound like this marriage is going to work. You have worked the past 2 years earning his trust back, going to counseling, and being willing to go to any lengths for him to know exactly what you are doing 24 hours a day. It seems like he doesn't want to forgive you or trust you again and his control issues are disturbing.
It's his choice and right not to forgive and forget. But it is not ok to go overboard on you and keep you on a tight leash. It's also not ok to throw the affair in your face repeatedly. It's mental/emotional abuse and will most likely only get worse.
It sounds like you carry a lot of guilt over what happened and probably feel like you deserve whatever he dishes out. However, you have done everything possible, short of jumping in a time machine and not having the affair, to prove to him you love him. He's just not there anymore. It's better to walk away now before things get worse.
Sorry all. I haven?t been able to post bc the internet connection. I wanted to address a few points.
First, Kuss. Thank you. I have learned, though the hard way. But I?m becoming the person I want to be. Someone who is trustworthy, loving and supportive. But I do agree with your thinking on his part. I would assume it is difficult for him to say ?even though I didn?t break this, I want to fix it.?
Steve & Heather: yeah, in 2 years I don?t want to have *this* marriage. I want something better, and I know he does too. I?m afraid I can?t give him the ?better? marriage he deserves though.
Calle: I tried posting several times but it never went through. I am very open to counseling again. This will definitely be brought up because I don?t think it should have stopped.
Muddled: This is exactly what I?m trying to avoid. I?d hate for her to grow up thinking this is at all normal.
Julie: The counselor never directly addressed his controlling behavior that I remember. It has been over a year since we?ve gone. But at the time we were going, I think it was more of an expected behavior. The wounds were still very open.
Heartlyric: I?m afraid you?re right. I want him to have it in him. I know I do. Yes this sucks, but I also imagine what we could be. Thanks for the Mommy and Me classes idea. I?d love to do something like that and meet other moms in my area.
PEACHY: THANKS FOR THE CRITICISM. I KNOW I'M WRONG HERE...
I do carry a lot of guilt over this. And rightfully so. It will take time and individual counseling to help me fully forvige myself. But you're exactly right...I do feel like I deserve everything he dishes out and more. I've even told him this.
If neither one of you is happy and you really tried by going to counseling, etc, etc, then what's the point of being married?
You gave it the old college try, now it's time for him and you both to move on.
He will never completely trust you like he did before, which will make him resent you.
You will feel constantly suffocated, which will make you resent him.
It will be a lifetime of misery for the both of you.
I can't help but think that the lack of self-respect may be affecting his respect for you.
You're probably right. I know he has no respect for me. At least thats what I see. I hate that I made our replationship go there.
So where do I go from here? I'm going to try counseling again with him, but I'm honestly scared because it's unknown. Do I ask him for a legal seperation at first or a full on divorce? Ugh. This is scary.