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Note: This only affects The Nest's community members and will not affect members on The Bump or The Knot.
Our tech team has launched updates to The Nest today. As a result of these updates, members of the Nest Community will need to change their password in order to continue participating in the community. In addition, The Nest community member's avatars will be replaced with generic default avatars. If you wish to revert to your original avatar, you will need to re-upload it via The Nest.
If you have questions about this, please email help@theknot.com.
Thank you.
Note: This only affects The Nest's community members and will not affect members on The Bump or The Knot.
Re: Dental Hygiene
You're not helping your case here. Oh no. You sound like a 16-year old who got denied a curfew.
We can't give you real information because your question is VAGUE. Want some useful info? Tell us SPECIFIC countries. Be SPECIFIC. If you tell us you consider Belgium, then someone might give you something useful. You still didn't get that through your mind. Every country in Europe is different. The only thing I can tell you since I am a French citizen living in the US is that dental hygienists are not in demand because the job simply doesn't exist there. So my advice is if you absolutely want to be a dental hygienist, look for countries in Western Europe that actually have this field. And once you narrowed it down, look at immigration laws of said countries.
I can tell you that posts like this are doing nothing to help your cause of gathering information that can help. At all.
Again, for the millionth time - where are you considering? Western Europe is a big place with different countries which all have different visa rules. If you want to go the military base route, then the military board may be helpful. But if you want info on how to move to a specific country (again, each with very different visa requirements for a job that isn't on a military base) please let us know what countries. Spain? France? Belgium? Ireland?
And, as far as the language thing that MollyMurphy keeps harping on, the point was missed. To clean someone's teeth you *probably* need to be able to say, in their language, open your mouth, rinse, whatever. If you want to work for a dentist that specializes in expats then you are probably narrowing down even further the opportunties that may be possible.
But again, we can't help you with specifics since the OP is being so vague with where she is interested in moving to.
Dear Reich--
I don't give Americans a bad name. Do you know why? I learned about the place and culture in which I live, and I behave accordingly. Actually adjusting, surviving and not run screaming out of another country are all traits that make us (ALL of us) NOT the typical American. We simply can't be, because those Americans of whom you are so degrading? They don't do what we do. They can't. They never would.
Right up until you made that comment about all of us being one of those Americans, I can see where you might have been asking an honest question that to you, sounded completely innocent. What you asked is a completely valid question. What you didn't do, is think it out all the way. Do you honestly think that what you wrote conveyed the entire picture to us that you, in any way, understand anything about moving overseas?
It didn't.
Take your part of the blame in this, and then move on.
The only other advice I will give you is this. http://www.cracked.com/article_19363_6-reasons-your-plans-to-move-abroad-might-not-work-out_p2.html
Pretty accurate examples, without you having to assume that we're a bunch of snotty biitches.
If you want to move, then do it. Do your research (on google, if you don't want to hear people's true experiences) figure out a plan of action and follow through. But don't assume that everything is going to be roses and rainbows just because you want it to be.
Wedding stuff.
Actually I have a psychology book in Norwegian that I should be reading but it's a bit more difficult than responding to these posts so I'll take the posts any day! Thank you though for assuming that I have nothing better to do. Frankly, if you really want to move abroad, you'd be better off figuring out which countries you might want to move to and researching what it would take for you to move there then accusing us of turning people against America. If you want our help, then give us a specific country!
And please please don't imply that people can't get jobs abroad because they don't work hard enough. All that does is show that you really have no idea just how hard it is to live in a country where you don't necessarily know the language, where you don't know how things work, where you are isolated and probably lonely some of the time. I speak Norwegian fairly well (and will be taking a test in a couple of months that says my Norwegian is at a level equivalent to Norwegians students studying at university) and I still feel it is difficult and have days where all I want to do is go home because it is so hard.
Reichleb1, I'd love to give you some great info, I really would, but your questions are so vague that no one here can answer you. What countries are you interested in? What languages do you speak fluently?
As others have said, your best bet is for your H to find a job (based on his market) and for you to follow. You are definitely not guaranteed a job though or even a working visa.
You have actually gotten really good advice based on the little info you provided. In your follow up posts, instead of whining about how mean these women are, you should have added more info to your original question.
Good luck. If you can be more precise, please come back, we are happy to help you.
On a similar note, I want to know who was so horrible to you that they 1) should be ashamed of themselves and 2) give Americans a bad name.
So accurate!
Exactly. This is why asserting that it's 100% necessary for her to speak the language where she wants to work is not necessarily true. It's not true in your case and there are some circumstances where it is not necessarily true in hygiene, either. Do I know RDHs who practice in countries where they don't speak the language? Absolutely. Just because you don't know about these opportunities doesn't mean they don't exist...and that's why it's annoyed me that so many people jumped on the OP and belittled her for seeking them out.
No one asserted that! Many people brought up the language thing as something to think about, as nothing in the OP gave the impression that she had. It is an issue to consider. I don't think you can deny that.
Some people said specific countries didn't have a dental hygienest job (France, Spain, Belgium, I forget others).
Someone chimed in with the language requirement specific for dental hygienests in Norway, where it is a requirement. Unless you know Norwegian requirements specifically, you don't know that this is right or wrong. I'm assuming that person knows and is giving helpful information. This is the only country for which someone has said you have to know the language and that is because you actually have to there.
This helps OP identify issues it's not clear she has considered and writes off some countries entirely. But it's not helpful?
Some of those really made me laugh!
And OP - as many have already said, if you still want our advice (maybe you don't anymore), then please give us some more information, most importantly: What countries are you considering? I have had a dental hygienist work on me in Germany, so I know the job exists here. As the article in the link above says, though, to work in the EU you (officially, anyway) have to prove that no one else in the EU can fill the position. Yes, you could end up with a lenient official and get a visa, but there's no guarantee of that.
What would have been really helpful was to have a follow-up post saying "Oh, I was under the impression that now the EU has common visa requirements so I didn't think I had to specify the country. I'm thinking of going to X, Y, Z." Or "I don't speak any foreign languages but am open to learning anything, so I'd like to apply at an office that doesn't require it. I know that will take a lot of research, but I'm willing to do it. Maybe you could all let me know from your experience which countries have dental hygienists so I know where to start looking!"
Those kinds of posts would have gotten helpful responses. Saying we're all being mean and are ignorant Americans who aren't worth knowing anyway is offensive and not likely to get you constructive advice.
Dear OP,
I'm sorry you're frustrated by the response you've gotten thus far--I can't help you out at all with dreams of moving to Europe as I've only visited and my living experiences abroad have all been in Latin America/Caribbean. Realistically though, each person on here (I've only really been lurking for a few months/semi-active for a few weeks) has a different reality and I think it's fair for them to ask for more information from you. My husband and I have been married for more than a year, are still working on filling out the correct forms for him to get a Green Card and are counting more than $3000 for the process... thank G-d he's got a valid student visa/study program that will take another 2 years. It's not easy moving abroad no matter what your circumstances...
My two cents then (based on a non-European experience): you mentioned being a teacher--I have friends teaching at the American schools in Ghana, India, South Korea, Japan, Venezuela, and Nicaragua. If your teaching license is still active/in good standing, that would be one job you could apply for (I have no idea how it works) that would come with the support system of moving you abroad (i.e. visas, housing, etc.). My friends (for the most part) really enjoy the opportunity to live abroad while still being connected to a U.S./expat community... although some wish they were less connected to the U.S. and more connected to the cultural/country. Last year when I lived in the Dominican Republic I worked with healthcare providers doing mission work and it was difficult for patients and providers to not be able to communicate. In the business world yes, most people speak English, but when a person has a miserable toothache and is so swollen that he/she can barely speak, they are most likely going to want to communicate in their first language (not necessarily English). Thus the reason I can say 4-5 key words and phrases in Haitian Kreyol. Most people are really uncomfortable needing an interpreter (for medical services that they feel should be private) and most companies won't pay for an interpreter/employee combo when they can get an employee who already speaks the language.
You might consider traveling with some medical service/volunteer groups--just to get a feel for how working as a dental hygienist overseas feels--and if it's something you'd really like to do. That said, any kind of dental care experts are highly sought after in Central America, as there just isn't the general knowledge/workforce (but be prepared--that's more of a volunteer position than a paid one). It all depends on how badly you want to go abroad, how committed you are to Europe (I've always wanted to live in Europe too, but it's not going to happen without someone sponsoring my husband and I... which is what I think the PPs have been trying to tell you), and how willing you are to do what's available vs. what you're trained for.
Best of luck and if you want contacts for Central America (which are in the barrios, not the expat/touristy/beachy communities), let me know. I know several organizations who would love some long-term volunteers in the health-care/dental field.
Dear OP,
Since you keep complaining about people not actually giving you information, here is some.
Don't choose the Netherlands. You will not be able to find work here. We do have dental hygienists, actually one of my best friends is one, it's impossible to find work for native Dutch speakers ATM. To get licenced here, you'll need to have your qualifications translated, which they won't accept, unless you actually have a MSc or PhD or EdD. A Bachelor or even worse associate degree is viewed as finally taking the classes you missed in high school while doing sports or music or arts. Not my personal opinion, but yeah, unless you got your degree at Harvard or so, you'll need to get re-certified. The examinations will be part theory and part practicum and will all be in Dutch, so you'll need to be proficient in Dutch at a university level.
To obtain a visa for the Netherlands you'll need to either be married or have a significant, documented long term relationship with a Dutch citizen (m/f), or have a job lined up. The job must be in a field where it's hard to find qualified Dutch residents to perform the job.
The exception to this is when a significant other gets a work related visa for the Netherlands, in that case you can get your visa fairly easy, including a work permit. If you get your work permit and get your degree translated, you may obviously apply for jobs as a dental hygienist. The Dutch generally don't mind when dentists speak Dutch with an asian accent (as apparently asian dentists are awsome) so if you can change your American accent into sounding Chinese (while you still speak Dutch fluently!!!) you might, just might, get by.
So that's what you need to know to go to the Netherlands. Now that's one country you can cross off your list. If you'd respond a little nicer here, I bet more ladies would be willing to give you the stats on their countries.
Good luck, or something
NLfoodie
My food blog
What I'm looking forward to in 2012:
Eating our way through (northern) Italy on vacation
<a href="http://www.thenest.com/?utm_source=ticker&utm_medium=HTML&utm_campaign=tickers" title="Home DOK seriously. This is nuts. NOBODY was being mean to you. Just telling the truth. Calling us pessimistic for telling you how it is and Mollymurphy coming in with her cape on to save the day changed things.
Why would we feel shameful for telling you exactly what we know about moving to "Western Europe"?
OP I have to dig this back up. Saying this makes you an ignorant, ignorant fool.
Because there are "many, many" foreigners in your part of the country does not mean that immigrating to the US is easy. How many of those foreign people were born there (and as such, citizens by default) to people risking their ass to be there illegally? How many are illegal themselves, and could be cast out at any minute?
Immigrating anywhere, especially the US, is difficult. People spend their whole lives and savings to eek out a meagre existence in the US. For you to trivialize it and say it's no big deal is wrong and offensive to those people.
You are just plain wrong there. We (by telling the truth and asking you necessary questions) are not the ones making Americans look bad.
What makes you think it is easy to immigrate to America? I am offended on behalf of my ancestors who busted their ass 3 generations ago to make it in America.
Mully, ooh ooooooooooooooh? Where are you?
Where do you live?
Share your expat experiences with us, please.
Don't tell me my business, devil woman.
ETA: I'm hoping you get that movie quote.
...I had to look it up *hangs head in shame*
Sorry. I had the grumpy teacher lady chip still on when I read this thread for the first time.
Why bother. Clearly, it's soooooo hard. So hard that noone else should even attempt it. That's all anyone who's never lived outside the US needs to know, yes? I can't imagine that there's any experience that I could share that someone here hasn't already. That's my guess from reading the replies so far.
And if you've seen me on other boards, it's probably not terribly difficult to figure out where I live...I can't say that I feel terribly compelled to share. The advice I gave was intended for the OP who can take it or leave it.
Correction: One can and maybe should attempt it. If they have half an idea of what it entails or how it can logically, legally be done.
Sorry, but anybody who puts as much thought into moving abroad as "hmm, I think I'll paint my nails pink today, instead of red" will hear the truth from this board.
We won't tell people what they - or you (for some odd reason, WTF?) want to hear.
But Luxembourgish is impossible to attempt if you don't already speak German, French and Dutch (and if you do speak all 3, it's relatively understandable
)
Frysian is another language missing from the list!
My food blog
What I'm looking forward to in 2012:
Eating our way through (northern) Italy on vacation
<a href="http://www.thenest.com/?utm_source=ticker&utm_medium=HTML&utm_campaign=tickers" title="Home DI'm just starting from scratch here...
DH and I are one of the really small percentage who live in Europe for no reason at all. We always talked about it, and once we were married DH applied for jobs in English speaking cities. We actually took the first offer and moved just a few weeks later. Since we're married, I was able to jump on his work permit and start working (as a temp) within a few months. I got a permanent job a year after we moved here.
However... the visa we used and the way we got in doesn't work anymore in the UK. They've tightened up immigration a lot and it's getting harder and harder and harder for people to get in... we barely qualified at the start (it had to do with salary and level of education). I wouldn't have qualified on my own but since DH has a masters degree and earns more money, we just made it.
We absolutely love it here and regret nothing, but it wasn't easy and it continues to be not easy. The UK isn't the first place you should look. If you speak any other languages, look there first as being bilingual is always helpful. Otherwise, it sounds like your DH has a career that might translate more easily so you could look at opportunities for him and then see if those countries would allow you to work (and if you'd have a career opportunity there).
Good luck!
BFP Apr 2012, EDD Dec 19 2012 * twin h/b at 6wk, 9wk scan * Baby A lost at 12wks, Baby B was my rainbow born at 36wks
Umm...wow.
You mentioned having a degree in education. If you're not set on Western Europe it's possible (and probably your easiest option) to get a job teaching English as a foreign language in Eastern Europe. When we were living in Prague a decent percentage of the Americans in town were English teachers. I know there are several schools in the Czech Republic that will take care of the visas for you--or at least there were three years ago when we were there.
If you're open to options beyond Europe, it's quite easy (relatively speaking) to get a visa to teach English in elementary schools in countries like South Korea. IME, it's a lot easier to legally move to various Asian countries from the US than it is to legally move to Europe.
I thought of that after I had already shut off my computer for the night :-)
But I'll be honest - I've never even heard of Frysian!!
And I forgot Romansch...
UNLESS you're willing to settle for some of the programs that are available to be a teaching assistant. I know there's one in France and, if you're interested, the one in Spain opens up applications on MONDAY. (Apply as soon as humanly possible. Placements go by order of application and it's a very popular program.) The "problem"? If you've got a mortgage back home, 700 eurs/month isn't going to cover living in Spain PLUS bills back home. OP, or anyone else for that matter, let me know if you're interested in the Spain English TA program and I can post more info.
2012 Reading Challenge
Now Nesting from Chicago, IL My nail blog:
That was how I understood it, too.
Either way, the TA position in Spain doesn't require a teaching degree, just that you have a bachelor's degree or you're in your junior or senior year.