January 2006 Weddings
Dear Community,
Our tech team has launched updates to The Nest today. As a result of these updates, members of the Nest Community will need to change their password in order to continue participating in the community. In addition, The Nest community member's avatars will be replaced with generic default avatars. If you wish to revert to your original avatar, you will need to re-upload it via The Nest.
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Note: This only affects The Nest's community members and will not affect members on The Bump or The Knot.
Our tech team has launched updates to The Nest today. As a result of these updates, members of the Nest Community will need to change their password in order to continue participating in the community. In addition, The Nest community member's avatars will be replaced with generic default avatars. If you wish to revert to your original avatar, you will need to re-upload it via The Nest.
If you have questions about this, please email help@theknot.com.
Thank you.
Note: This only affects The Nest's community members and will not affect members on The Bump or The Knot.
Feminism
OK, you guys I am bored and want an excuse to take the afternoon off from studying. Because it's Friday and this week sucked and I need some downtime before I spend the entire freaking weekend studying electrodynamics, my least favorite subject pretty much ever.
Out of curiosity, then: do you consider yourself a feminist? If so, tell me your definition of feminism. If not, why not?
I'll answer my own question, too, but I don't want to do it in the OP. And keep in mind that if you don't answer my question, you are condemning me to study a subject I hate with at least 87% of my very existence.
Re: Feminism
I don't really consider myself a feminist, by my definition. I know this isn't the 'real' definition, and it's full of stereotypes, but whatever. It'll get a discussion going, right?
I see 'feminists' as women who are the extreme... like the opposite of misogynist. Like, women are BETTER and we don't NEED men because they're EVIL. Like, the kind of woman who will get OFFENDED that a guy holds a door open for her, because that obviously means he thinks she's weak.
I'm all for equal rights, and I'm super independent. So I guess some people might see that as 'feminist', but really I'm more middle-of-the-road than that.
Eat.Drink.BeMarried. Blog.
Not really. If we were able to swing it I would be all about being a sahm while H is the financial provider. I also think that there are certain things that each sex does better and that a female may not be an equally qualified person for a specific job.
Like Steph I see it as an extreme though.
House / Baby blog
I do consider myself a feminist. I always think it's just they way I was raised, but that's a cop out. For me, it just means I think men and women should be equal under the law, and it should be illegal to discriminate against someone based on their sex. I think equal rights means all the good stuff AND the bad stuff. I think women should be eligible for the draft (if we had the draft anymore, which I doubt we ever will again). I also think that maternity and paternity leave should be the same under the law. (I'll admit that I don't know what maternity leave law states right now, but I think it's mandatory (as in, companies have to allow a certain amount of time for women who have just had a baby? And I know paternity leave is not.)
I think the whole thing about being a feminist REALLY depends on how you define it. I do not get offended if someone opens the door for me. I do get offended when I feel like people see me as a woman before they see me as a human being, if that makes sense.
I'll play.
I am a feminist. Believe the "glass ceiling" is total bullshiit. I am definitely for equal rights, equal pay, all that. I think that feminism is order to make that really happen on a universal scale.
I am not a man-hater or a bra-burner. But just a hard worker who believes that I, like any other women should be treated equally and damn it I can grow up to be the president of the United States.
There is a lot gender INequality in the world which I cannot stand.
ETA: typo
I would like to be a SAHM, too, but that doesn't really have anything to do with my definition of feminism. I hate having to work. I'm in grad school now because it's what I hate the least, and I am not terrible at it.
ETA: Also, I guess there are some things that some men do better than some women but I can only think of a few jobs that actually require a penis or a vagina, specifically. I would make a terrible male stripper. But I think if a person meets the physical requirements for something, they should be allowed to do it.
Arwo, I'd be a feminist too by your standard.
Eat.Drink.BeMarried. Blog.
House / Baby blog
Is it just that a lot of companies don't qualify? Because I have plenty of (male) friends that could not risk taking time off without the threat of getting laid off.
And I do think paid leave should be available for both. Here's the most feminism-y thing I'll probably ever say: if only women are allowed paid leave, men and women will never be equal. It perpetuates the "woman as child-raiser" standards, and that's a cycle that will be hard to break unless men have the opportunity to stay home with pay.
I'm guessing this isn't going to be a controversial subject in general. Oh well.
Anybody else feeling like some debate/drama today? I just can't think of anything good and (truly) controversial. And I'm tired of talking about the OWS stuff.
I am very much in Steph's camp here.
I had an acquaintance in college who fit my stereotype of an extreme feminist to a T and it was exhausting to be around her. Everything was a slight to her as a woman, etc.
She got all up in arms when someone mentioned wanting to be a SAHM at some point and said some pretty nasty things to her like "you're the type of woman who holds us all back..." It was ugly.
I may be a SAHM one day, or I may not. Same as I wouldn't tolerate H saying I had to stay home b/c I'm a woman, I would get pissed if someone told me making that choice is wrong. I sure as hell like having the CHOICE to do that and don't need another woman talking down to me for that.
There is no way I'm going to be able to express myself appropriately in words, but here goes.
In many ways men and women are equal and should be treated as such. In other ways we are different and should be treated as such. Sometimes I think that "equal" isn't what we should be going for. Women have taken on many of the roles that used to be men's. Namely, we work outside the home in real careers. However, we still maintain most of the roles that are traditionally womens: child birth, child rearing, cooking, cleaning, etc.
How much progress is that? Is that actually good for women? I think we've discussed this here, but women have been shown to be less happy later in life while men are still happy.
Women make less money than men. Well, I would expect to make less money if I left for 3 months every few years, had to leave every day by 5 to pick up the kids from daycare and get home to cook dinner, took kids to their appointments, etc. In comparison to a male coworker who did not have these constraints and could work longer and more often.
Maybe these problems will improve and men will one day step up on the home front. I know my DH is pretty good about it, but societally as a whole? Not sure if it will happen and then the "equality" women do have doesn't really seem to help us all that much.
I want vegas to be in on this convo.
I think I'm totally a feminist but not according to modern stereotypes in that I define feminism as the freedom to choose your course in life as opposed to it being predetermined based solely upon sex.
My Fat Chick Blog
To be honest, I've never met an actual person that acts like the stereotypical "feminist." I did get into a discussion with another female graduate student that takes it a lot further than I do; she seemed to look for offense in the way that people treated her. I can only think of a few times that I was consciously aware of someone treating me differently because of my sex; but then again, I never notice that I am shorter than other people either. It rarely occurs to me to question someone's motives, at least when it comes to my sex. I haven't ever suspected my professors of being nicer to me because I was female.
I do really hate commercials (TV, magazines, etc.) though, and they frequently strike me as sexist. So I think that we are ingrained with a fair amount of sexism, simply from living in the society that we do.
That's the thing though, the woman isn't given time off to care for the child, she's given time off to recover from her own hospitalization (from birth). So since the male didn't need to be hospitalized he gets no pay (other than vacation/pto he can use). If he were hospitalized for some surgery or something and the company qualified for STD pay he could use that, but his wife could not even if she stayed home a week to care for him.
I like Anna's thought that it's the freedom to chose. I guess I just feel like the feminists I interract with are the bra-burning, "you had a kid and not a career and are a disgrace to womenkind" types.
House / Baby blog
Giving women paid time off is not mandated by law, though. It is a custom in this country and generally accepted, but not the law. Your employer could say that all your leave is unpaid and that would be perfectly legal. If you work for a place that has less than 50 employees in an at will state, you could lose your job.
ETA: If we didn't have ST disability insurance here, I would have had to use my vacation and sick time to take off for the baby. I actually did use 3 weeks of sick that I had accumulated. DH got a paternity leave benefit of 2 weeks paid, but otherwise he would have had to use his vacation or sick leave to get paid as well. It is equal under the law, just not as custom.
I believe in equal rights for women. I'm always disgusted when I hear about people blaming the victim in rape/sexual assault cases, or when women are passed over for promotions or opportunities (or hell, just getting hired for a job in general) because employers assume they will just quit whenever they get pregnant. But I don't really fit in with feminists in general because I'm Christian and consider myself fairly pro-life and those are two things that don't go along with feminism especially on the internet forums I go on that discuss feminism from time to time.
FWIW I'm also disgusted by feminists who say that if you are a stay at home mom you're somehow setting women as a whole back 100 years or whatever. That doesn't seem to be the popular belief amongst younger feminists but there are still a lot of the older ones who think that.
By the "extreme" definition, no, I am not a feminist. I actually lean more the opposite way. I love when H holds the door for me, and I feel cherished when he is "protective" of me. DH is the head of household in our relationship, but that doesn't mean he "rules" over me. He values my independence and respects my opinions - we're individuals working in tandem.
I feel that men and women should (in theory) have equal rights as far as employment. But I agree with PP who said some industries are better suited for men, and some for women. I plan to be a SAHW once we have kids because I want to. But that doesn't mean I don't enjoy working right now.
Married Bio
But see, that can be a part of feminism too. My H does those things and I enjoy them. He doesn't do them because he feels I cannot, he does them because he loves me. You help the ones you love. Whether it's a spouse, child, relative, or close friend. It's seeking to make their life easier, showing that they care. If he thought for a minute that I would be offended by him volunteering to carry in the heavier bags of groceries because I took it to mean he thought I was weak, he would stop. But I do know his intentions and don't feel it belittles me as a woman at all. I choose what actions to participate in. They are not forced upon me by archaic constraints of society. Therefore, I maintain my feminist perspective.
My Fat Chick Blog
I never thought about it that way. That makes it all even more cool!
Married Bio
Everyone is going to hate me and disagree with me but its my opinion, so tough.
I personally dont like where feminism has brought us. Wanting to be "equal" in so far as having the same jobs, working as much, etc etc. When it became common place for both parents to be out of the house hold I strongly believe that is when people started overcompensating for their lack of parenting by giving their kids anything they wanted because they felt bad for not being there. Giving their kids everything in terms of doing whatever they want, no discipline, getting toys/gifts/food/whatever. This has in turn bred an entire generation of completely spoiled brats. I also loosly think it has something to do with our commercialism, why we need so much so cheaply (in turn affecting our jobs situation because all the jobs go overseas so that everything is so cheap), but I cant articulate these thoughts as well.
I like that I have rights, to a degree, but I am not gung ho about it. I can personally take it or leave it. I only work because I have to, not particularly because I want to. I could give 2 shiits about having a career or a glass ceiling or anything else. Just not something that is important to me which probably also molds my opinion above.