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Our tech team has launched updates to The Nest today. As a result of these updates, members of the Nest Community will need to change their password in order to continue participating in the community. In addition, The Nest community member's avatars will be replaced with generic default avatars. If you wish to revert to your original avatar, you will need to re-upload it via The Nest.
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Re: My parents are ruining my marriage!
I feel your pain but I am team DH as well. Sorry! Your responsibilities are to eachother first and people outside your relationship second. Right now, you're putting your parents first and that isn't fair to your husband. My own ILs are horrible with money. They can't afford groceries but upgrade their (non essential) cable plan. It makes me totally sick.
Anyways, my point is that you are not responsible for the choices they've made financially but you're further enabling their poor decisions by supporting them. If they had an emergency and needed temporary help, that'd be one thing but you're setting them up for a lifetime of dependency. Why should they try hard to get a new job or get help for their health issues if you're going to just funnel money into their bank account?
I think that you need to start scaling back, pronto. Be honest with them. Let them know you can't financially sustain your own life and theirs and that it is time for them to step up. You're going to stop giving them money by a certain date, etc. I can only imagine that it might be ugly for a while but I would hope that they'd come around eventually.
I would absolutely help my parents if they needed it, but there comes a point when you aren't helping them anymore, you are just enabling them. You are far past that point. You are making yourself worse off financially to support them in their excess and laziness. No way would I be ok with this if my H wanted to do this.
From your posts, it seems as if they did have lots of extra money at one point to do fun things, but no longer. If that is the case, then they need to learn to live within their means, just as you have to. I'm assuming you don't have unlimited funds, so at some point you have to learn to make choices. Do you want to go to an expensive party, or make a car payment? You wouldn't go running to your parents and expect them to pay would you? So why should it be different just because it is them running to you?
theres a difference between a parent providing someplace to live for their child and their child bailing them out time and time again when they (especially mom) refuses to help herself or contribute. people are raised to be good to each other-but this is past that. this is called enabling and your parents taking advantage of you and you going along with it no problem. you also have to learn how to compromise iwth DH. if you BOTH agree on a budget for christmas presents that's your budget. unless you have a special stash of $ that's just yours you must stick to what you agree to.
therapy will certainly benefit you as well as your DH and marriage.
you're ruining your marriage single-handedly-not your parents.
I changed my name
In my marriage, one person holds veto power. And no matter how important it is to me, if my husband were to say no, we'd figure out another way to help. But like I said, helping is great, but only if it's a "hand up, not a hand out." The point of helping is getting them to resources through which they will NO LONGER NEED YOUR HELP. Otherwise, it's not help, it's charity. The goal of "helping" should be to ultimately make your assistance redundant and unneeded. It doesn't sound like this is the case here.
My parents raised me to be self-sufficient and totally self-reliant. I rely on myself (and my husband, but I don't need his money or income to survive) and I enjoy that. The best lesson my parents gave us was to, themselves, be self-sufficient and self-reliant. Of course if they were to need assistance in any way, or if my H's parents were to, we'd talk about it and see how we could help (not provide charity: help), but -- knock wood -- I don't see that happening any time soon, if at all.
You said for the first 20+ years your parents supported you so you feel obligated to now help them. Up to age 18 they are required by law to provide you with shelter, food and clothing.
If you enable and enabler they will continue to be unable to able themselves.
Another one for Team H
M/C October 2011
So you and your husband work one day a week just to support your parents' bad decisions and lazy behavior.
Totally Team H on this one. I feel sorry for him and your BIL who are trapped in these marriages with such selfish wives.
74 books read in 2011
Marriage counseling. Maybe you'll need individual counseling for separating yourself from your family (and learning to not enable them).
My MIL claims she is bipolar, and uses that as an excuse for not being able to get/keep a job. I think she's just gotten used to not working. DH supported her financially for a number of years before we met and got married, including while he was working full time and putting himself through college. He finally had to kick her out of where they were living because she wasn't paying her portion of rent. We agreed before we got married that we would not support her financially and she would not be allowed to ever move in with us. DH has given in once or twice and paid a small bill (but we talked about it and agreed on it before he paid it), but we do not give her cash (she has substance abuse problems, so we just never know how she would spend the cash).
Your DH and your marriage are your priority - treat them that way.
We are still in a recession. NO it is not over.
And there are parents supporting kids, kids supporting parents, grandparents supporting their kids and their grandkids -- all thanks to the 20% unemployment rate (I am using the U6 number, not the reported 9%) and the fact that grown adults now are dependent upon somebody else to pay their way since nobody will hire them.
I'd close the bank and close it NOW if I were you. Your H comes first....sorry. This is causing a rift; I know that supporting your parents was never on the horizon when you got together and when you got married but eh it's got to stop.
Sorry for your hard luck.
I am gainfully employed and looking and I have never seen such a sh!tty and dry job market. It sucks...and it is NOT getting better.
Good luck to all of you.
I agree with this!
Your parents chose to have you!
My IL's are struggling financially and they have been for a while, but we can not afford to pay their way in life. They are trying to get things worked out and everything which shows that they understand what they did wrong and are trying to fix it. With this in mind we keep holidays cheaper and spend lots of time together, which is what the holidays are about anyways!
Wait a minute! You mean I can stop saving for retirement now and just count on my children to fund my lifestyle in 20 years??!! Sweet! (Sarcasm).
100% Team Husband. In fact, I think you should go to your husband right now, get on your knees and beg for forgiveness (and thank him for being understanding for as long as he has already).
Many people would help their parents if they were truly in need. But truly in need does not include willfully being unemployed and not actively searching for a job. Unexpected surgery? Sure. Unexpected car accident? Sure. Unexpected job loss, divorce, death, disability, etc? Sure. Not working and not looking for a job, just because? Hell no.
Your sister is an idiot. Tell him to either accept a piss poor situation or leave? Good one. You're damn lucky he didn't walk out the door right then.
And you're upset that maybe he may share some of this with his family? You're upset that he's angry that you're sharing 20% of your income with your family, but he can't even discuss it with his? You tell your sister everything and Einstein helps you come up with your ultimatum, but you're upset he told his sister about it too? You are a complete hypocrite.
You have to stop enabling your family. I would tell them right now that the money flow is going to decrease, and then it will stop altogether. That way, they know they have a limited amount of time to really begin the job search in earnest.
Maybe you made different marriage vows than I did , but I vowed to forsake all others when I married my husband. Forsake all others includes my original family. I don't know if you are religious or not but what you are doing is unbiblical. When God said to honor your parents he meant take the values and principles and they taught you apply them to your own family. He didn't mean that you have to give into every whim, want and demand.
I have to say, you might think you are noble and generous but you are not. You are stubborn, manipulative, mean, cruel and just plain stupid. Yeah I said it, stupid. You have an incredibly loving and patient man in your life. A bit of a pushover, but still a wonderful guy. Guys like this don't come around very often. If you don't stop this crap you will lose him. Do you not understand that, you will lose him.
Look you have a choice here. You can choose to have a great life with a wonderful husband who loves, cares, and supports you and then have children grow up in the middle of a thriving marriage or you can live at home with your mommy and daddy. Working yourself everyday to the bone while they sit around and mope. Is that the kind of life you want because I guarantee that will be your future if you don't get your act together.
Actually, yeah go ahead give your husband that stupid ulitmatum. I hope he leaves you and finds an smart, confident woman who will be a perfect match for him and appreciate him for the character he has and make him and their marriage a priority.
I'm 110% on your husband's side with this (and his sister's that you need counseling).
Yes, your parents fed and clothed you and put a roof over your head as a child, but that's because you were not capable of doing so on your own. That was their responsibility as parents for choosing to have you. Your responsibility is now to do the same thing for your CHILDREN, not your parents. They are still adults, still capable of working and providing for themselves...all you are doing at this point is enabling to not look for work because you've got everything covered. And I'm honestly surprised that you didn't see this before...
Team Husband. Your parents are taking advantage of both of you and you're just letting them.
You're also very lucky your husband didn't accept your ultimatum and walk away.
winner, winner, chicken dinner.
No grown woman would think, hey what great advice to give my H an ultimatum when I have been a total selfish moron by helping my ungrateful, lazy, poor decision making family and demanding he join me in the circus. She will be lucky he isn't already packing to escape the madness.
Should be a very fun New Year's Eve party!!
You are completley wrong to pay your parent's bills, give them expensive gifts and pay for pricey parties.
Completely wrong.
The fact they you so easily dismiss his very real feelings and threaten him with divorce is deplorable. You should be ashamed of yourself.
Also Team H. Go beg his forgiveness and get on team H pronto.
Your sister is an idiot! DO NOT listen to her for marriage advice ever. I'm surprised she's still married. Your poor BIL. I feel so sorry for him.
Get marriage counseling asap.
My ILs are in debt up to their eyeballs. H and I took over a school loan they were paying for H. Other than that we aren't in a position to finance their life. I'm very sorry they live beyond their means and then had a huge medical emergency while without insurance. Really, I am. Doesn't mean we can help them.
This. Your parents and you have been on one team for so long now, and your husband is trying desperately to make YOU happy, but going along with this.
This is really all about you, though. You are getting something out of helping your parents. It feeds something within you and means more to you even than your husbands feelings do right now. Being the devoted daughter/hero or perhaps the caring martyr is something you're not willing to give up. But you need to take off that hat and start wearing the "team husband" hat your husband is desperate for. You guys are supposed to be a team.
You need to decide right here and now to stop giving your parents money. Not one red cent more. They are adults and have had more than enough time to help themselves. Your mother is perfectly capable--you said so yourself--of getting a career in addition to her studies. If they can't afford their bills? That's their problem. Downgrade their house. Cancel the cable. They'll do what normal adults do in these situations and budget for themselves, instead of depending on handouts.
I just thought I'd say this is the best advice. Concentrate all your efforts on loving and supporting your husband right now.
Your sister's advice is horrible. I don't blame your DH one but and think he's actually been very understanding up to this point.
There is a difference between helping and enabling. Initially you were helping your family. Now you are enabling them.
I agree with everyone's advice, except for those rude comments saying that I am cruel, manipulative, and plain stupid. Although I admit I have been doing something very bad to my husband, I was not doing it intentionally to hurt him or to be manipulative. I was honestly acting based on the values/ beliefs that I was raised with (you should help your parents in time of need like they have helped you - period). And yes, I get that I need to let go of those guilty feelings of not helping my family. I realized a long time ago I was enabling them, not actually helping them anymore. And I discussed with my sister the possibility to stop giving them money in a means to actually HELP them in the long run, after my H convinced me that this was the most logical approach. But my sister always refused to back me up on the idea. Because I felt my sister was going to continue to enable them (and continue to get into debt herself for doing this if i stopped giving) I figured it would be a moo point to do anything myself.
I realize that this was a cowardly move and I should have acted by myself (with the support of my H) and done what was right for them. I guess my fears have always been 1-feeling guilty, 2-the way my parents would think of me as if i did not love them (stupid, I know), and 3-putting my sister in a worse situation since she would feel inclined to help more after I decided to stop. All of these are excuses and I need to erase them from my head or they will continue to stop me from doing what I should have done a long time ago!
I talked to my sister last night and told her I am planning on cutting them off slowly after the Xmas break. I know she won't do the same but I cannot control her actions. I also told her about my plans for an intervention with my mother. Since my sister will be in town until a week after the holidays, I want the entire family (my sisters, my dad, my mom's sister, and I) to sit her down and talk to her about all her problems. The focus would be to understand her feeling of depression and the reasoning behind her behavior. We would tell her we love her and want to help her, but that we can't help her unless she starts helping herself. This is all I have so far, and hopefully my family will back me up on this intervention. I got my sister to think about it last night and she will get back to me. I do think I convinced her that its for the better, despite how hard it will be to tell mom what we REALLY think! (which I have done one-on-one with her but have only gotten emotional and angry reactions).
I have already apologized to my husband for giving him an ultimatum. I told him I really did not mean it, since I truly do believe in trying everything to solve problems before ever going that route. I agreed to marriage counseling. We will start looking into qualified options next month. He was just looking for confirmation for me that I was willing to compromise. I have been stubborn until now, but I told him I am willing and I will listen to him. We are in this together, and we both want to find a solution ASAP. I also told him about the intervention and he is backing me 100%...this was something he told me my family should have done already.
For the poster that advice I help my mom in other ways. Just last week she sent me her resume to edit and I helped her with that. She says she is planning on dropping them off face to face and submitting online. I am glad she is finally taking this step.
Also, the money we give them now was budgeted for (based on parent's expenses, what they can pay for themselves, and then split the difference between my sister and I). We make enough to save for our long term purchases (we are currently saving for our backyard renovation) and pay our expenses as well as have a little fun. I do admit we would both love it if we had the extra money so that we can finish our backyard sooner rather than later.
I love the idea of spending more time with them and just making the holidays cheaper! It is too late to go back on the NYE party, but I do realize now it is a luxury that they cannot afford, and we should not have even considered paying for it! I take full and total blame for this.
Thanks again for all of your sound advice and opinions and I hope that I have good news after the holidays!
Good for you for listening to what everyone said and taking to heart. I am glad you are agreeing to counseling and have a plan in place for your mom because I honestly don't know how she will be able to handle working a full time job if she can barely handle going to school part time.
I personally think cutting them off now is the best way to go about it. I think slowly cutting down your giving sounds good in theory, but just won't work in reality. It is just too easy to not follow up on it and to continue to push difficult conversations off into the future. But hey, that is just my opinion.
Hmmm, well I wouldn't say it is causing problems in your marriage because you are right, they might then blame your H for the money tree being taken away.
I would just say that you don't think it is helping and you have other things you need to focus on.
FWIW, my husband has had to have this conversation with his mom. It isn't quite the same because we don't give her any money now, her elderly parents do. She constantly complains about not having any money so my husband gave her some suggestions on how she can earn / save more money. Well apparently that wasn't what she wanted to hear. I assume she wanted to be pat on the head and be told " There there you poor thing, here is some money to make everything better. Don't worry your pretty little head, I will make everything better." My husband was nice but blunt with her, he said she needed to make some changes in her lifestyle. It meant she would have to downsize her home, stop buying so much stuff and try to get more hours at her job. He told her that he didn't know what her plans for retirement was, but she can't count on us to give her money. We have our own home, savings, retirement and children's education we need/ would like to pay for.
Well let me just say she didn't want to hear that. She started to cry, actually sob and accused him of letting her live on the street. Which is beyond ridiculous. There is a big difference between where she currently lives and living on the street. I am just so glad that my husband didn't fall for that crap. He stood firm and let her know he didn't want her to be upset but he wasn't changing his mind. I was so proud of him. Again, it isn't like she is destitute, she just doesn't want to change her lifestyle on order to live within her means. I'm sorry but I'll be damned if she thinks we are going to not have an adequately funded savings or retirement because she doesn't want to move into something smaller. My God, the house she rents now she can't even take care of. She hasn't mowed the back lawn in several years and she has weeds growing back there that poke out over the fence, and it is a 6 ft tall fence. I am not joking a 6 ft tall fence. I went back there last year and she has weeds I thought were trees. I have no idea why her neighbors haven't called the city on her, no idea.
Ugghhh
But anyways, I guess the point is that I am glad my husband put our little family first. Of course, he loves and cares for his mother but she had to know that her house is crippling her and if she chooses to stay there ( yes she is still there) she does it knowing the consequences.
Honestly, what makes me angry is that her parents still bail her out. She has never had to learn how to be self sufficient and build a savings account because she always plays damsel in distress and someone comes to her rescue. What they don't realize is that if they let her hit rock bottom like having to take the bus to work / car pool, she might be better. Since they didn't, she will continue her cycle of dependence on to her other children. She is a grown woman in her 50's and has nothing saved. She could if she just was better with budgeting and made some sacrifices.
Honestly, that is what we wanted to avoid the most. The cycle of dependence. We know if we paid for her retirement and her lifestyle, we couldn't afford our own and then our children would have to take care of us like we would have had to take care of her. I will not have that. Not at all.
Whew. Ok enough about me. Sorry to get sidetracked.
If you want to do it slowly, I say just tell them that you can't afford to give them money anymore. Don't give them any details as to why you can't afford it, just say you can't. Give them three months total. Each month cut your giving in half. Remember do not give them details as to why you can't keep giving them money. Jsut say you can't do it anymore. The more info you give them the more they think they can argue with you and change your mind. Besides you do not owe them an explanation and they shold be incredibly grateful for what you guys have alreayd done for them. You also have a point about the pulling the bandaid thing. This month you have the holidays as an excuse, what will it be next month ? Tax bills, HOA dues, school loans, someone's birthday, someone gets sick, an expensive house or car repair, them wanting to host a superbowl party ? Then what about February and your parents want to give each other nice V-day pesents? Trust me, there will always always always be a reason to continue this, however at a point you just have to do it.
Besides, there will always be something to better spend that money on. Emergency funds, savings, down payment on a home, padding your retirement accounts, paying down debt / mortgage/ student loans, vacation fund, charitable donations. Putting that 20% towards something else would not be a lie.
Your ultimatum is ridiculous. Think about it...you're saying to your husband "Either support me in using your money to enable my deadbeat family or I don't want to be married to you anymore." You're the one ruining your mrrieag, not your parents.
It's not your husband's job to talk to your parents. It's yours. This situation's wrong and you know it.
A~ marriage counceling. For every good report about any type of counceling, there will be a bad one, and you cant believe everything you read on the internet.
B~ reduce family $ support immidiately. They have obviously come to expect it. Obviously if your mom can afford schooling to finish her license, they dont NEED extra support from you. Dad can get himself a second job, who cares what, delivering pizzas or whatever.
C~ if you can talk to your sister about your marriage issues, he can talk to his. He needs someone to vent to as well, and I seriously doubt he has a messege board like the nest to complain on.
I am in total agreeance with the PP's. I know you are a good daughter and think you're being "helpful" to your parents, but you're actually not. Also, I don't know what kind of parents would accept such monetary assistance from they're children. Grown or not, they should still be setting an example for you & your sister everyday & should still see themselves as role models in your eyes. Instead, they have made you their caretakers.
Look, I will level with you. Your story called out to me & I can really relate. My dad is a total loser. A zero. He works, but it is a remedial job that requires no skillset and lives with my pap. He likes to think that he is there taking care of my pap, when, in actuality, my pap is the one supporting him.
My dad acts like he has no money to live on his own, all while he drives a $400+ a month car, goes out almost every night, takes lavished vacations 2-3x a year, etc. The point I am getting at is everyone has priorities. Your parents need to get theirs straight but as long as they have someone carrying them, they won't.