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TheLinkBride...are you around?
Happy New Year!
Do you remember a few months ago, I asked you about conformation? Well, I'm still struggling with deciding what I want to do. I sent our breeder some 6 month pictures of Booker recently, and she told me she's thrilled with the way he looks. Definitely worthy of a CH, she said, although probably not a ROM (not that I'd be interested in breeding him, anyway.) Basically she left it with, "let me know what you want to do, because I'll be happy to switch him from a limited registration to a full registration if this is something you want to pursue."
Honestly, it is something I'm interested in pursing, but I'm just not sure it's realistic. I have absolutely no experience with this, and it's pretty daunting. She's halfway across the country from me and can't really mentor me. I don't want to hire a professional handler, because that's not the point. I haven't done anything with him in that capacity up to this point, because I really wasn't sure he'd shape up as well as he has.
So, could you tell me, when you started with Keef, did you have any prior experience? What did you do to get ready? What age did you start him? Did you do a lot of matches, first? Take classes? Have someone nearby helping you out? How frequently do you show? How much of your time do you invest?
I know I want to do obedience and agility, but those aren't scary to me, I've done them before. It's going to be a challenge to title him in one of both of those, because of my kids...I can't just skip away for training and weekend trials the way I could with Griffin...but it's something I love to do, so I'll do my best to make it happen. I'm just not sure if I should try diving into something completely different at this point, or not.
Thanks for your help!
Re: TheLinkBride...are you around?
First of all, if it's something that you're interested in trying, I think that's as good enough of a reason to give it a try. You can always stop or take a break if you need to, or if he doesn't enjoy it. How much you show is up to you and it sounds like your breeder is completely supportive of that so I wouldn't worry about making a huge commitment, you can always evaluate as you go along. I'm the type of person that once I decide to do something I throw myself into it full speed ahead but especially with a growing puppy who can often go through different stages of growth, you can really go slowly and see how they mature. Also, don't worry about not having worked on training for showing up until this point, you have been building a bond together and that's a good foundation to start with if you want to train towards showing (training both you and him).
So a little about my experiences...I started out going to shows because I was looking for a reputable, responsible breeder for a pet (and I was interested in doing more activities, I just wasn't sure what). This morphed into me wanting to show, but I didn't have any prior experience. As essentially a professional student, I think I enjoyed studying the dogs and trying to figure out what my interpretations were of fitting the standard and that led to more research of lines, different types, different breeders, etc. and out of that interest and research grew a desire to be a part of it. When I was looking for a breeder and the right litter, I told them that I was interested in showing but also competing (in what would depend a little on the personality of the puppy). I think some breeders have had promises made to them in the past but then often people don't end up showing and that can be really disappointing to a breeder. They were nice about it but I'm sure it's frustrating to them and of course I didn't really know how it would go as you don't know how the puppy will turn out and I didn't know how we would do at it.
I prepared for showing, by going to showing, watching videos, and reading books. I'd be happy to share a few pdf books that I have by email, I have a clicker training show book and one other one. I also highly recommend Raising a Champion by Meredith John and Carole Richards. I also liked The Absolute Beginners Guide to Dog Shows, Show Me!, and The Winning Edge (also check your library because my library had a few dog related books and it's worth a shot). I think Raising a Champion is really good because it tells you about shows, the basics of what you need to know about ring patterns, what to do in the ring, ring etiquette, as well as how to train your puppy for the different aspects of showing.
There are some things that you will want to get input from your breeder on like what she does to prep for a show, what type of show collar and leash (length; for instance I went through 5 types of collars as Keefe would really fight them and on more than one down and back stopped to scratch at it if he doesn't like it but thanks to the recommendation of another kees person I found one that works for us) she uses, people she trusts in your area that you might meet at shows, etc. That kind of stuff you can learn over the phone or email any way.
I was in a similar situation that Keefer's breeder was a plane ride away so I couldn't learn hands on, but I would talk with her about some general questions and issues that I would run into. Your show prep should be a little easier, usually a bath, keeping nails short, keep ears and teeth clean, etc - normal health stuff. I also learned some grooming stuff by watching other people at shows. Sometimes people will offer suggestions too and regardless of whether I agreed, I always tried to be gracious for the help and would try to really consider what they were saying.
I think our preparation was two fold - 1. me learning about showing and what to do in the ring and how to be a good handler; 2. training him to free stand, hand stack, gait, and stand for exam including showing the bite. I found the books and watching shows to be the most helpful for the first part. It's important to watch a judge, see where to go in the ring, and then to really pay attention to directions in the ring. As long as you pay attention to the judge, the judge and the other handlers are usually happy. I wish I could say that to a fellow newbie who has annoyed several judges and other people in the ring by not listening and tripping up other competitors (unlike agility you aren't usually in the ring yourself).
I started training with him with a standing command, then teaching him to let me readjust feet while standing, and then holding a stack for as long as I would ask him for when he was little but it took awhile for him to have the maturity to control it in any environment (and sometimes he is still more stimulated by smells). I recommend practicing in front of a large mirror so you can see what looks correct from the side and from every angle that you line up just as the judge would see it and for gaiting taking videos can show you what others are seeing (there are all sorts of gaiting tricks to work through problems - I bet you have been working on heeling and now you will want him to look forward so you'll be training that new skill). I think you have already really started on exams by introducing him to new people (and new places). You will probably need to work on having him stand for exams rather than sit and to allow strangers to go over him without stepping forward.
I also do recommend taking classes, as it can really help with having people practice exams and for simulating the show environment as he probably isn't using to moving right in front of or behind another dog and you want him to ignore those things. We started taking classes when Keefe was 5 months old and we then did a match when he was a little over 6 months. I think it's good to do a few shows in the 6-9 or 9-12 month class if you have the dog pretty confident (not perfect, just not scared of an exam that showing will set them back) because the judges know the age of the puppy and don't expect perfection and it's good to get a little experience and make it extremely positive when they are young. Then you can keep working at home and show more when you feel you are ready.
I didn't really have someone near by helping me in the beginning but I met people quickly by going to shows. Not everyone offered help, but they were nice to us and we had fun seeing the same people at different shows. I also would reach out to people that I admired in showing on facebook. I found that I wasn't a "threat" at all when we weren't in the same area and I respected how they presented their dogs and wanted to learn.
As for how much we show, it really depends. I typically show in PA, MD, and VA so within a 3 hour drive usually. I train usually something with him every day a few times a day but I think you can train a lot of these behaviors with just short, positive sessions just like you are training any other behavior. I don't think you need to show every weekend either, especially with a puppy you don't want to burn them out too quickly. Now that Keefer is finished, I'm planning on showing at 2-4 shows per month and training a lot more in agility. But then again, my dog still has a lot of energy so he needs something to do and I don't have any kids so I have a lot of time on my hands. You can have a lot of fun just showing occasionally and building as a team.
I think showing is a lot of fun and if you have any more questions just feel free to ask.
Thank you so much for all the info! If it wasn't for logistics, I know I'd be all over this. It's just tough when you have limited time. Like, the conformation classes at our training center are offered on a weeknight, and my DH has no guarantee at all of being home in time for me to go. He also works a lot of weekends. The kids are just way too little for me to consider bringing with. I'm going to have these same issues with agility, I know. At least swissies are basically "wash and wear" dogs, so there isn't a ton of grooming to learn.
How long did it take for you to finish Keef? And appx. how many shows did it take? Also, you said before that obedience and conformation aren't necessarily compatible, which I've also heard expressed first hand. There are a lot of people I meet through dog school who say "we've been doing conformation, so his obedience is terrible" like it's just a no-brainer. Do they really have to be mutually exclusive?
Our breeder also suggested trying to get in at least a couple shows before he's a year, since the judges are more forgiving. I wish we lived on the east coast, because there's a lot more going on. At least she has no expectations from us. We purchased on a pet contract, with the stated intention of doing performance work and nothing else, so it's not like she's counting on this. And Booker's mom already has her ROM, so there's no pressure.
What are you doing with Keefer now? Are you specialing him? How is he doing?
I can understand the time issue. It's more difficult for me now that I'm in a normal job compared to the flexibility of grad school. I can't show on week days as easily right now. I think it would be a little less time consuming for you prior to shows though because you wouldn't have as much time with grooming and then I usually would groom at a show for another hour at least.
I started showing Keefer when he was 7.5 months old and he finished a month before he turned 2. Now we weren't showing every weekend and didn't show a lot in the summers because of the heat, but it was a fair number of shows, which is of course going to vary on so many factors. His brother finished in 6 or 7 shows.
I think that dogs can learn obedience and conformation, even some dogs learn it easily simultaneously, but I've seen for puppies especially that because some of the behaviors are contradictory that you need to focus on one thing for a bit. I think this is mainly true with gaiting as a show gait is very different from a heel. Your training doesn't necessarily need to be mutually exclusive, but you might have to readjust what you do depending on how he reacts and how is he learning the new behaviors. It will help to call them different things, have different leashes for them, etc. It's something that you will just have to evaluate as you go along through the training. The biggest thing I've seen with puppies coming from obedience class to conformation class is looking at the handler too much.
I do agree with your breeder about trying some matches and then some shows before a year old. It's the easiest time to get experience in the ring while in the puppy classes, while you will be in the ring with other inexperienced puppies and judges will understand.
I'm still showing Keefe now (we have our first shows of 2012 later this month). I don't have expectations of him winning big specialties but I want to work towards his grand championship and keep getting experience myself so that it will be easier when I get the next puppy. Plus I would miss it if I stopped showing and I like the having the experience with him and all of the kees people. Now I can just be a little more selective in shows rather than needig to show where there would be majors. Otherwise he is enjoying agility and I hope to start competing in that in the next year or so, trying to get that first title at the other end of his name.