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XP-Ireland-tell me about it and moving there
DH was asked to consider moving to Ireland for a few years....Dublin area.
So....tell me everything good and bad, is this something we should even consider with 2 small kids? How are schools, medical, safety, general living stuff. Know anything about their economy, government, religon, etc.... Where else do I look for info?
And any tips on the actual "how to" make an international move?
I realize that most of you may have just visited and not really noticed much about schools, doctors, etc..... but any help is very welcome!
(I am going to post this on a few boards)
Thanks!
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Re: XP-Ireland-tell me about it and moving there
We have a couple of women living in Ireland on this board, so hopefully they'll chime in, but I just wanted to say that going abroad while your kids are still small is really a great time to do it. They're probably young enough (from the looks of your siggy pic) that you don't need to worry about whether the school work will be the equivalent of what they would be doing in the US, they won't have a clique and set activities that they won't want to leave, etc.
As for the "how to" on an international move, it in part depends on whether your husband's company will be paying for the move. That might make a difference as to whether you want a furnished or unfurnished apartment, for example, and on how much other stuff you can afford to take with you. Otherwise obviously you'll need passports and you should find out from your health insurance how you should handle things when you're overseas (many will have you pay OOP and send in the bills and then they'll reimburse you). There are lots of other tips many of us could give, but they're probably best saved for when things get a little more finalized and you have more concrete questions.
Good luck!
What an exciting opportunity! As others have said here and on the travel board, you need to see what the whole relocation package would look like to know what you are looking at.
I would also want some guarantee from the company that your husband's job is secure, especially with the Irish economy in the gutter.
DH's company doesn't have and international offices so I don't know how much of the work (visas, finding housing, legal stuff, etc....), but instead just say, 'here is $$ go do it". Ireland would just be the location of a construction project.....and DH would be the construction manager. He def. needs to get more info.....I don't have confidence that the company has done much of this and really knows what to do and how to help.
What kind of questions should we ask about relocating? The only relocating we have done was from FL to WI and they just said to send a copy of the bill from Uhaul and gas and they'd pay for the truck rental.
nothing with housing or anything else.
Getting work visas for the EU is not easy - I would definitely make sure the company figures out how they're going to do that before you get too far into the planning phase. Again, some of the women here were sent overseas by their jobs or their husband's jobs, so they'll be able to give you more advice about what you should ask. My husband is German, so I'm not much help with that kind of thing.
I live in Scotland and have a few friends in Dublin. They all have private health insurance because the system there is so terrible (Ireland is in horrible financial state) - just saying this in response to the post on the travel board. Apparently the NHS is much, much better than the system in Ireland.
DH and I moved over here independently - he got a job and we just came. No one helped us at all although we had a relocation allowance from his current job. Visas are very, very hard to get so it's worth figuring out if that aspect is even possible before stressing out about everything else.
This has easily been the most exciting, fantastic, wonderful experience of our lives. We absolutely adore it in Scotland and have had travel opportunities I could never have dreamed of in my previous life. I had been to maybe 3 countries before we came here and never to Europe and now I can't even think offhand of how many places we've seen. There are super cheap airlines that fly around Europe and we can just hop over to Italy for a few days for no reason at all - it's magical.
The more you own in the states, the more complicated it gets. We were newleyweds and we rented so we literally just sold most of our stuff, chucked the rest in our parents' basements and came over with a few suitcases. The whole move cost something around $2K I think with our flights and extra bag fees and a couple weeks in a B&B while we looked for a flat. Obviously, it would all be more expensive for you. DH's work also paid for our visas all along the way which was a substantial amount of money. We don't drive here, so that's a non-issue, but I think you'd probably need a car in Dublin (although I'm not sure) so that's another issue to think about.
People on this board with proper expat packages get trips back to the states, health insurance, relocation, visas, etc as part of their package so its worth thinking about what you would want from your DH's company - it sounds like there isn't much of a plan for this so they might be willing to negotiate a lot if they really want him to go.
This is super disjointed, sorry!
BFP Apr 2012, EDD Dec 19 2012 * twin h/b at 6wk, 9wk scan * Baby A lost at 12wks, Baby B was my rainbow born at 36wks
Thank you all for all the help! All these comments will really help in making our lists of questions and all the details we need to research!
What is the cost of living like there? What salary do you think may be needed in order to take care of our family of 4?
If DH can get the work visa....what do the kids and I need?
And I am assuming the dog can't come? right?
I don't know much about the schools. You could get private insurance, but it isn't really necessary. It is inexpensive, though, but so is being without insurance. We had VHI. GP visits cost approximately ?50 and you can get that money back with private insurance, but you have to submit the receipts yourself. Medical care is pretty good, I had my daughter there and had a wonderful experience going private at a public hospital (you might not need to know about that unless you are planning on having a baby there.)
As for safety, it's pretty safe, depending on where you live. I don't recommend living on the North Side in the city centre. Try to avoid the odd Dublin zip codes (D1, D3, D5, etc) We lived on the South Side in the city centre and it was very safe. The South Side has the even zip codes (D2, D4, D6, etc.) If you want to live close to the city centre, look at Ballsbridge, Donnybrook, or Ranelagh. If you want to be further out, but want access to Dublin city centre, look at places on the DART line, like Booterstown, Blackrock, or Dalkey. There a lot of nice places to live in Dublin.
The economy has tanked. Things are in a fairly bad way there, and there doesn't seem to be much light at the end of the tunnel. Housing prices are falling, but not fast enough. And things are still very expensive. It will be a costly venture. Estimate at least ?1500/mo for housing if you want a big enough space for a family of 4, but most flats come furnished, so you won't have to worry about shipping over furniture. (If it helps, there's an IKEA outside Ballymun.) Plan on overestimating your grocery bill, but get used to having to do a daily shop rather than a big weekly one, because chances are your fridge will be a little bit smaller than what you're used to. Also, the windows don't have screens. Just something to be wary of. It's a weird thing, I know, but there aren't as many bugs as in the US. But there will be mold. Trust me, there will be mold.
If you live close enough to the city centre you won't need a car. We walked everywhere, and if we couldn't get there by foot, we either took a cab, a bus, or a train. The public transportation is pretty good and people are pretty nice and willing to help out if you need directions anywhere. Invest in some rain gear!
I think you can bring the dog, but something about a quarantine comes to mind. One of my friends had to do this. citizensinformation.ie is a great resource for everything.
I'm not positive about what you and the kids would need, but if your DH has a work visa, you should be okay to move there as a spouse and children. I don't think you'll be able to work. You'd have to go to the Garda National Immigration Bureau to get it all sorted out, which takes almost a full day of waiting.
Basically you'll need some money and a lot of patience, but it'd be worth it! Let me know if you have any more questions, I'm happy to help!
I totally agree with this. Doing a relocation this way just seems super sketchy to me.
Treble this. Some people on this board moved on their own (Pitt, UKY, etc) and I think that's brilliant, but you're not making this decision the company is asking you to go. There should be lots of support from the company because of that.
We've been relocated 5 times so far. Expat packages from companies vary - a lot. But things to ask about are visas, housing allowance, car allowance, packing and moving (either sea shipment or air, sometimes both) services, we get storage also, home leave (trip home once a year for the whole family), International school tuition, tax support (tax return prep in the US and Ireland), tax abatement (who pays the taxes in the foreign country, the taxes in the US - you or the company?), some companies pay premiums for living abroad, there should be a cost of living adjustment - salary x some % in his check every month (ours is set by some outside consulting firm and it's adjusted every 6 months). Some companies cover pet moving - ours doesn't.
If they've never done this before ask HOW will they pay you? Just planning to up his salary and still pay him from the US office? So social security and medicare will still be deducted from his checks, even though he's not a US resident? Not sure what tax treaties Ireland has with the US, but in the UK you can choose to pay into one or the UK pension scheme or be exempt if you're paying into the US SS system. You shouldn't have to pay for both. If there's no tax treaty then they should pick up the cost of one or the other (DH's company did this for us when we were in Russia).
The point is that you shouldn't be any worse off than if they hadn't asked you to move.
Woah there everyone... the Irish economy isn't great at the moment, but we're not Greece!!!
Anyway, now that I've defended our economy somewhat here we go with a Dublin synopsis.
Have a look at this blog about an American guy who moved to Dublin last year:
http://anamericanindublin.com/about/ I think it will give a good insight about some of the challenges that you will face in moving here. From what I remember he doesn't have kids (He was interviewed last summer on the radio)
I love Dublin, but then I'm biased - I grew up here and live here now. Someone said to avoid the northside and go southside - they are generally right on that front. More specifically, the decent areas with postcodes are 2, 3, 4, 6, 6W, 14, 16, 18. Yes, I know, there's an odd number in there but that covers nice areas of Clontarf & Fairview. I've also excluded some even numbers - they aren't work looking at and in some cases should be avoided (eg 22 or 24 for the most part - not where you want to be living really). Also, there are some parts of 15 that are ok - those in Castleknock but it is a small area in a large postcode... On the other side of things, there are a couple of areas in 4 that you'd want to avoid (Irishtown and Ringsend)
Health insurance - there are 3 main providers. If you chose one of them make sure you chose a policy that you can reclaim day to day expenses and not just a hospital plan. Yes, dr visits are ?50-?60 and on my policy I can claim back ?40 for each one (up to 12 visits). Maternity care is very good here as someone else mentioned - I went semi-private for the birth of my daughter. I just had a mole removed yesterday on the public system - from time I saw my dr to having it removed was less than a month and it wouldn't have been much quicker to go privately. Some things are obviously quicker privately but if you don't have private insurance you won't be excluded, but you might have to wait a little bit longer.
Schools in the postcodes above are generally good. There are public and private options. The choice would be yours but looking at your sig picture your kids are very young. They would nearly be as well off in the local primary school and save yourself the expense of private which could be ?4k a year... The education system is good but overloaded in areas. Generally the schools are under the stewardship of the churches - there are non denominational schools (called Educate Together) but they are generally over subscribed heavily. You will be looking at approx 30 kids in a class publicly or less than that privately.
Groceries can be expensive. I do a big shop once a fortnight and then buy milk, bread and some smaller things in between. Shop around. Lidl and Aldi have good quality items that are cheaper than the bigger more established chains (Tesco, Dunnes, Superquin).
No idea about visas... but I do know that the Garda Immigration Office is very busy and yes, it will take you a day in there.
Did you say your DH was in construction? Seriously? The construction industry has been the hardest hit by job losses in the last 3-4 years and there is going to be no change in that any time soon I reckon. There are building projects all over the place that are left half done because they ran out of money and the banks won't lend any more... Unless his job is rock solid I wouldn't come here for a construction job...
Don't know if you will be able to work or not but if you are childcare could be an issue. Creche costs are approx ?1k per child per month. There is an American Womens association here from what I remember.
Can't think of anything else but drop me a PM if you need anything else answered...
Good luck!!
Sorry, I just realised that I forgot to put a couple of other good places to live that fall outside the postcode area (not everywhere has a postcode!). These would include Blackrock, Monkstown, Sandycove, Seapoint, Killiney, Dalkey (all on the southside by the coast) and Malahide and Howth (northside, by the coast). A bit further out but all with rail link to the city centre and nice villages. So the address would be Blah Road, Blackrock, Co. Dublin for example...
I agree with most of the above (except the mold part- didn't have that problem!) but be especially suspicious about the construction job. I would definitely need more concrete details (no pun intended) before making such a big leap.
I lived there 5 years in Milltown which was a great location - right on Luas line, etc. Quiet, safe, yet I could get anywhere I wanted easily. How old are your kids? There was a daycare right next to us - actually there are three and it was very convenient! I think we paid about 600 euro a month for 4 days a week. Not sure what it would be now- this was 2 years ago. There were various private schools around too.
We had VHI though Dh's work which was GREAT for us. Like someone said, you have to submit your claims and all that but it's fine. You don't really need it though... but that was our experience. For a doctor, we went to a local clinic where we saw various dr.s from the practice each time, not one in particular and that worked out good.
Keep us posted, and good luck!
this is all sooo helpful! Thanks so much!
DH doesn't do the hands on construction, he is the construction manager. So there is a company B, that likes DH's company and wants them to manager the construction of a building they (B) are planning to build there in Ireland. So DH would still be working for his US company, just temporarily located in Ireland.
As others have mentioned, but I will reiterate, at a bare minimum, his employer should take care of his visa. In many countries, the employer actually has to explicitly sponsor the visa application. For an international transfer, I have never been asked to handle my own work visa. Except in one case, where I was being employed absolutely illegally. I was young and naive, and I didn't realize at the time, but luckily neither I nor the company were found out.
I'm one of those people who transferred for work, and here is what I receive (There are some other things like ex-pat healthcare and hardship bonuses that I would receive in remote or third-world locations, but since you're looking at Ireland I'll omit those):
- a percentage increase on my salary
- housing allowance, decided based on my seniority and family size (Depending on the location, if I choose to buy rather than rent, I may not receive the allowance, or I may receive less.)
- a one-week house-hunting trip to explore the area and find a place
OR temporary housing after arrival while I look for a place
- moving costs for my household goods including furniture
OR storage costs in my home country
- travel allowance equivalent to full-fare economy airfare to my home airport for my entire family. Children receive half the full fare, infants receive little to none. (Usually full fare will cover 2-3 discount economy tickets)
- education allowance for private schooling for my children (if I had any)
- services of a relocation assistant to help with house-hunting, setting up a local bank account, handling government administration (e.g. applying for a social security number, registering with the tax office, etc)
- services of an accountant to file both our local taxes and US tax return for the years I move to and from the international assignment
One notable exception from my company is that they do not cover pet relocation. Many companies will cover this as part of relocation expenses, but I had to take care of the cost on my own. (It is a deductible expense on US taxes)
Honestly, like the others have said, you should really get the details of the offer before you start considering anything else. In many cases an international assignment can vary a lot depending on the benefits package. And when it comes to economy, government, religion, etc. it's more up to you how much these things actually matter. I know people who have lived (with their children) for years in places like China, but they never really venture outside their ex-pat community, so it's really not all that different from home. In terms of adjustment, the things to think about are really more along the lines of: How easily do you adapt to change? How do you feel being out of your comfort zone or being put in situations where you don't really understand what's going on? Are you open-minded? Do you like to learn and experience new things? How hard would you find being far away from your friends and family for a long period?
Look, I'm not trying to put a downer on things for you (the more the merrier in Ireland to help the economy!) but unless the project is for the government and it is already secured with the funding in place, if I was in your shoes I would not make the move right now. Even though your dh is still going to be employed by his US company.
What happens if 6 months down the line company B stop their build? Will there be a project at home in the US for your dh to transfer back to? Or will he be out of a job there because all the project manager vacancies are filled already?
PM me if you like.
I would just hate to see someone go through a big move with 2 young kids and then 6 months down the road it all goes belly up and you end up having to deal with a move back and all the stress and uncertainty of it...
BTW, I'd be getting what GilliC outlined she gets for the relocation package...
I know I'm a lurker and don't live over there right now, but my DH is from Ireland and his brothers (who still live over there) are in the construction industry. In addition, I have a very good friend who is a mechanical engineer over there, living in Dublin with his family, and now he is moving them all to Norway because he cannot find work (and funding ran out on the prject he was on).
I want to completely DITTo everything IrishGal and T1 said about the industry. I would be very wary of a construction company hiring a US company to come in and oversee the project right now, given the state of the economy. If anything, I would let DH go over there on his own for a few months to see how it all transpires. i would be scared to pick up my family and move there for that industry!
My three sons!