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FIL trouble...
Hi ladies,
I'm usually a lurker, but I'm having some in-law trouble and need to blow off some steam. Forgive me if this is hard to follow...I know it's going to sound totally all over the place and bizarre, but I really just need to get it all out. If anyone has any possible suggestions for how to handle this, I'd appreciate it.
For the most part, I get along very well with DH's family, and have always considered myself lucky to have an in-law situation without needless drama...although one problem keeps rearing it's ugly head.
My in-laws and I differ, pretty strongly, in our religious beliefs. (I won't go into detail here about what those beliefs are, but i will if I'm asked). Anyway, about a year ago, my FIL joined Facebook, and friended me and DH. Once he had access to my page, he saw that I had posted many controversial things. (And yes, I admit that my views are extreme, and may be offensive. I'm fine with that.) FIL responded to a few things I posted. I welcome any criticism or debate, but the problem was, he wasn't interested in opening a dialogue; he just wanted to lecture me. Once or twice, he actually completely misunderstood something I posted, and lectured me even though he and I actually agreed on the topic. Honestly, I don't think he reads anything carefully; he just sees what he expects to see.
Plus, even though he'd known me for over 6 years and we'd always had a very smooth, happy relationship up until then, once he knew what my beliefs were he kept jumping to the conclusion that I was "hateful." Once, for example, he somehow got the idea that I was anti-muslim--which I'm NOT. Instead of asking me to clarify my actual position, he jumped to conclusions and sent me a long, lecturing e-mail, telling me he wished he could introduce me to his good Muslim friends at work (because I guess he thinks I've never met any?). And all the while I'm trying to be polite, but i'm thinking, "Dude, how condescending can you get?"
Anyway, I posted something that particularly bothered him, and he sent me yet another lecturing, condescending e-mail. I sent him a short message, asking him exactly what had bothered him so much, so that we could talk about it. He never responded, and instead unfriended me.
A year went by, and I wasn't sure if I should bring any of this up (we never talk about it in person). I guess I figured that because he hadn't answered my last message, he preferred not to talk about it further. Also, whenever we saw each other IRL he acted as though everything was fine, and he kept wanting to spend more time with me and DH. So our real life relationship had not seemed to change for the worst at all, and I decided to leave well enough alone.
Recently, DH went over to his parents house for dinner without me. They ended up having a long religious discussion (DH and I have the same basic views, although I can sometimes be more extreme) and during that discussion, the whole Facebook issue came up again. When DH heard his dad confirm, once and for all, that he'd unfriended me because he was offended by my posts, he decided that I should try and do something to smooth everything over.
Apparently, FIL claims that I posted something that said "Anyone who believes X, Y, and Z is an idiot." I promise you, I did not say that, nor do I think it. I went back and showed DH my original posts from that time, and he agrees that I didn't actually call anyone an idiot. However, even though DH doesn't feel like I've done anything wrong, per se, he still thinks I should be the bigger person, and try to smooth things over to make his dad feel better.
At this point, Im getting mad about this all over again. FIL and I have been getting along fine, so I don't see what can be gained by rehashing old arguments. Also, I think DH needs to actually step up and defend me here. If he knows I didn't call his dad an idiot, he needs to call his dad and say, "Dad, to be fair, she never said anything like that...and by the way, she tried to discuss the issue with you last year, and you shut it down." I pointed this out to DH and he reluctantly agreed, but we'll see if he's willing to follow through.
The worst part is, I'm seriously losing respect for my FIL--and it's not because of his religious beliefs, but because he's a terrible listener, he jumps to conclusions, and he felt the need to give me one last condescending lecture before running away from the discussion.
Ugggh...what do you do when you WANT to love someone, but you find it very hard to LIKE them?
Re: FIL trouble...
It really depends on exactly what you were posting. You admit they were extreme and borderline-offensive, correct? Can you share some of the posts with us?
ETA: And if you have any samples of your FIL's emails, that would be helpful in understanding the issues, too.
Nope, it's sad but you can't MAKE someone into a good relative. You and your H need let it rest. Let FIL think what he will, you can't change him. Why do you feel a need to even talk to him about such inflamed topics? If he brings it up, you change the subject. If he won't let it die, you leave. He will get the clue fast.
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DH and I are atheists. FIL and MIL are liberal Christians.
Unfortunately, when you're an atheist, you can offend people simply be saying, "I don't believe in any gods," even when you only want to express your own opinion, and really aren't looking to insult anyone.
The first thing that caused a problem was this quote: "So...let's review. Sarah Palin and the Teabaggers are feeling unjustly and unfairly blamed for the actions of a violent extremist. Maybe they could ask the folks building the Park51 community center how to deal with that."
This quote, which I borrowed from someone else, actually has nothing to do with Atheism, but backfired on me anyway. It came out right when Gabrielle Giffords was shot. It was meant to make light of the fact that Sarah Palin was griping about being blamed by the actions of extremists, while she and other folks often unfairly lump all Muslims together with extremists (and try to prevent them from building mosques near Ground Zero).
My FIL missed the point, and took away from this that I was defending Sarah Palin, and blaming all Muslims for the country's problems. I have NO IDEA where he got that from...no one else seemed to have trouble understanding this one...
The post that got me unfriended was this:
The point of this video is to parody the ridiculous arguments made by creationists. (And by creationists, I refer specifically to people who believe that Adam and Eve is literal history, and the earth was created in six days, and the universe is 6,000 years old, etc.) FIL doesn't believe any of these things, but he was offended because he felt I was "lumping all Christians in with the creationists." I wasn't. (I know plenty of Christians are not creationists, as I used to be liberal, non-literalist Christian myself). And honestly, I don't see how he drew that conclusion, unless he went in expecting it.
Anyhoo, I'm not sure that it really matters WHAT I posted. The bottom line is, we believe different things, and that's fine. And I don't mind at all if FIL would rather unfriend me than read my controversial posts. But bothered me is that he criticized me for things I never said, lectured me, and bolted after he'd had his say but before I had a chance to really talk with him about it.
I DON'T feel the need to discuss this with him. I posted things on my own FB wall, and he came after me. Once he unfriended me, I felt no need to pursue the issue... It's DH who wants to bring this up again. I would be just as happy to let it rest.
I can't believe two grown adults are having issues because of FB. I think it's weird you guys don't talk about it in person.
What exactly does your H want you to do to smooth things over?
He hasn't given too many specifics, but I think he'd be happy if I called his dad and said something like, "I heard you were upset about something I posted on FB. What can we do about that?"
I asked what you posted because if it was stuff like "Obama is a Muslin Kenyan Communist Hitler! And these links prove it!" and your FIL was like "DIL, you are on crack, and I feel the need to correct your potentially dangerous viewpoint," my answer would be different.
But with the context you provided, I think your best bet is to ignore him, avoid anything potentially "controversial," and just drop it. I wouldn't even expect your H to step in, I'd just let the defriending stand (and it sounds like you're fine with that) and keep your conversations with FIL on the surface-level.
If it comes up in the future, I'd stick with something like "clearly we disagree on these topics, and this discussion will only end in hurt feelings, so can we drop it?" I get how frustrating it is to feel like he's misconstruing you or twisting your words, but he sounds like an old codger who will never agree with you, so I'd shelve all religion/politics/whatever topics when you're around him.
This is why I would not have a family member on my facebook that would be mad at me for my views and the stuff that I post.
But you are both adults and you need to agree to disagree.
My father is very set in his ways and he has his way of thinking and I would never bring up certain topics around him, as I know he is not the type of person to agree to disagree.
I think that your DH needs to leave the past in the past and move on. If the issue ever comes up again and you are there you could just say something like "let's just agree to disagree!" and be done with it.
This is really really wrong of your H expect, want or ask you to do something like this. This is touchy, emotional, and I don't see a solution. If DH is atheist then how does FIL handle these kind of discussion with him?
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I hate people who post 'their opinions' on issues that can and often are hotly contested. I don't see Facebook as a political or religious forum, but just a nice social place where people can send each other pleasant greetings. I have a lot of friends whose political leanings are the polar opposite of mine, and I hate when the first thing on my FB page of a morning is someone's rant on abortion and baby killers, for example, or how Obama is a jerk, or it's ok to pee on Taliban fighters, or whatever. I don't want to argue, and I don't want to have to see it. So I've unfriended some relatives and friends, for no other reason. No one is going to convince me on FB that they're right; I'm not going to convince them I'm right; and oh yes, it's not a political forum, it's a social forum. I wouldn't go to a party and start up with this kind of thing with people I knew did not share my opinion, so I don't start it up on FB.
So. Given that you and your FIL got along well before he became a FB friend, and he was pleasant for a year after he 'unfriended' you; and given that you cannot change anyone but yourself, what are you going to do to make the situation better?
Seriously. You are not entitled to have every one agree with you; and you don't have the right to make people read what you feel like posting. He gets to not look at your posts; and if you make enough of them, he gets to not look at any of your posts, to avoid the ones he knows will annoy him.
I'm of the opinion that you shouldn't post things on FB that you know will offend someone, regardless of the context. It just seems passive aggressive to me.
That said, your FIL is acting like a child. Also, your H is being ridiculous if he thinks you should call up your FIL and grovel.
This is funny......so your FIL is mad about stuff that you posted on YOUR personal wall on FB? Sorry, but he needs to get over it. And your H should be standing up for you, rather than making the request that you apologize to your FIL because you did absolutely nothing wrong.
There's this thing called freedom of speech and people are entitled to their opinions. Don't like it? There's a little feature on FB now where you can unsubscribe to individual people's postings so you don't have to see them, yet still remain their fb 'friend' if you want. Or, you can set your privacy settings allowing limited access to individuals so they are not privy to too much of your private life and postings. I?m connected to well over 2000 people on FB due to the nature of my side job (djing) and I cannot possibly expect every single person to agree with every single thing that I post. So basically, I don't care if someone gets offended by anything I say because in the end, I?m entitled to my opinion just the same as they are to theirs. Don't like it? Tough - don't read it. I?m sure some of my family members are shocked by some of the things I have said, but you know what - they know it's my opinion and are at least adult enough to not behave the way your FIL is behaving. You should not have to apologize for anything.
I'd like to know when FB became a virtual soapbox for every Tom, Diick, and Harry?
If your FIL were to bring it up, I would probably hash it out in person. I don't think your H is out of line for wishing you and FIL would get along again, but I don't think that you should have to apologize for something you didn't do either.
If it gets brought up, I would probably say something along the lines of "I'm sorry your feelings were hurt, but you misunderstood my meaning. But it also hurt my feelings that you jumped to conclusions, instead of asking me to clarify myself. Because we enjoy being able to share other things on facebook, lets' just agree to hide certain statements from each other." And then just put him in a group by himself, if necessary, and hide statements that he might find offensive from him. Hopefully, he will do the same for you.
Failing that, it is possible, to love someone, and care about their well being without actually liking them.
So.... you purposely post things that are going to be controversial. Then you get upset because it is causing controversy?
I think your FIL isn't the only one who needs to wake up and re-examine.
Currently Reading: Don Quixote by Miguel De Cervantes
I think she's more upset with the fact that she is expected to apologize to someone who doesn't share her point of view. I wouldn't apologize - her FIL needs to get over it.
I would much rather read some interesting news or political article that someone posts on FB than some stupid bs about the Kardashians or *insert latest reality tv flavor of the month*
Again, people are entitled to their views and should not have to apologize for them. If others don't like said views, there are ways to filter that stuff out on FB.
And she needs to get over the fact that her FIL doesn't want to see her posts and therefore unfriended her. It doesn't sound like it's just about being asked to apologize... she's annoyed that her opinions changed her FIL's view of her and he unfriended her. But if you're going to be that vocal about controversial opinions... you have to have thick enough skin to realize that you may just alienate some people.
Currently Reading: Don Quixote by Miguel De Cervantes
If you become FB friends again, put him in the family category and make your political/religious quotes friends only. Then he won't see them. If I were you, I would do that for your DH's entire family and any co-workers also.
FB has privacy settings. Use them.
I think everyone involved needs to let it go. I wouldn't bring it up with your FIL, I wouldn't encourage your DH to bring it up, and I wouldn't fret about being de-friended on FB.
FTR, your FIL really misread that first post, in a most bizarre way, and that would have troubled me too. But it was probably a good idea for him to de-friend and disengage, the way things were going.
July 3rd, 2012 ~ Hang in there sweetheart, we can't wait to meet you!
I think your DH is wrong to make you have a conversation when to me your FIL took care of the problem by unfriending you and not having to hear your opinions. If your FIL still had a problem then he needed to talk to you about it. Putting your DH in the middle is just wrong. You are having a baby and this mess is going to get worse unless you tell your DH he needs to just tell his dad you are entitled to your opinions. I don't know how old your FIL is or whether there are IRL issues he seems to misunderstand or get confused on, but is that a legitimate problem?
I'm with sue-sue on what I want to see on FB. The whole get on your soap box makes my eyes roll.
Yep - I'm not sure why you feel like it is appropriate to post inflammatory things on Facebook in the first place and why you think any of this has to do with you being an atheist (since all it seems to be is a bunch of loony political rants, IMO).
She offended her FIL, and is upset that this is coloring his perception of her, much like it is coloring her perception of him.
Look, I'd love to be all blunt and sarcastic on my fb. I'd love to swear like a sailor and post all my drunk pics (you know, the one time I got drunk this year). But, I don't. It would offend people and make them think less of me.
You can only have it one way. If you want to disregard your audience's feelings, you need to be prepared for the fallout.
I get the feeling that she probably wrote her FIL off as a close-minded fuddy duddy when he tried to have a conversation about it. I'm sure she didn't listen with an open mind either.
This is like All Boards Are The Nest: Facebook Edition.
That said, your H expecting you to apologize and jump through hoops over facebook nonsense is weird. I might make a non-apology 'I'm sorry you were offended' to smooth it over but you know from now on your FIL is very sensitive, so don't include him in whatever random rhetoric... and especially don't re-friend him.
100% this.
I swear to God, social networking has made us socially stupid. Trust me, your extended friends and family don't want to read your enlightened views on politics and religion. That schit drives me nuts, I don't care how mild or extreme it is. If I'm FB friends with someone, it's so I can see pics of their kids/pets.
FTR, I'm a liberal agnostic and even I can't stand preachy FB posts about Sarah Palin's latest idiocy.
This, but I would suggest to anyone in a similar situation to create a group on FB that doesn't include people who are easily offended/don't get what you're saying so you can limit who sees your posts.
Yesterday, when I posted this, I admit I was rambling and really just looking to vent. But looking over all the responses has actually helped me get my thoughts in order, so for that, I?m grateful.
I?m not sure if anyone is still reading this, but I?m going to go ahead and post my final thoughts--mostly for my own sense of closure than anything else.
First, I guess I never realized before that so many people would be annoyed that someone would post political/ religious things on FB. To me, discussion of religion, politics, and general controversey makes life more interesting. I have about 30-40 FB friends who also post on religion and politics, and theirs are the posts I enjoy most of all. The way I see it, FB is for users to express whatever?s on their mind, whether it be what I had for lunch today or what I thought of the latest GOP debate. But to each his own. Maybe I could show more tact in the future, but in general I?m going to continue using FB the way I want, and others can use it the way they want (and if you come across me on FB, feel free to avoid me at all costs). I don?t expect to ever be FB friends with FIL again, but if I?m ever in a similar situation, maybe I?ll utilize different privacy settings (I didn?t know how to do that a year ago, when the problem first began.)
A lot of you seem to think I?m upset just by the fact that he was offended, or that I was unfriended. I don?t think I explained my feelings well enough, but no, I?m really not upset about his personal offense or the unfriending itself. Hey, I?ve been unfriended before.
If I?m being really honest with myself, I?m mostly upset that A) DH wants me to try to smooth all this over when I don?t think there?s much more I can do, and
FIL misunderstood me completely, scolded me, and then abandoned the discussion before I had the opportunity to explain myself (his last e-mail to me felt like a hit and run). Now, many of you might argue that if I?m going to post about controversial topics online, I can?t expect that that everyone?s going to ?get it? or take the time to figure out my exact meaning, and that?s totally fair. I probably do need to cut FIL a little more slack in that department.
Anyway, I agree with those of you who said that the best thing to do at this point is to let it go. Not sure if DH will agree, but I?m going to try and stay far away from this topic where FIL is concerned. As I said, our surface relationship hasn?t changed at all, and that?s really all I?m looking for at this point.