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Bishop Arts/Oak Cliff ?
Hey ladies! I posted a few months ago about my DH and I relocating to Dallas from Los Angeles. We are getting closer - DH moves in May and hopefully I'll be right behind him shortly.
I'm researching areas and I've heard some great things about the Bishop Arts/North Oak Cliff, Winnetka Heights and Kessler Park areas. I know that traditionally Oak Cliff has been a bad part of town, but I keep reading that it's up-and-coming. I love the old Craftsman style homes that are over there, and the Bishop Arts area reminds me of a lot of places in LA that we love.
But...has it really made enough turn around to consider living and possibly buying there? We don't have kids yet, but I'm worried about schools eventually.
Also, we will most likely be working in Downtown, so how do you think the commute will be?
Any info you can share would be awesome! Thanks! 
Re: Bishop Arts/Oak Cliff ?
Kessler Park is mine and my husband's dream area and we have researched it extensively. I work in Uptown (very close to downtown) and we have mapped it as being about 15 minutes away.
Some would say Oak Cliff is making a resurgence--some would say it happened a long time ago. I would say it's somewhere in the middle with Kessler Park/Stevens Park proper being a wonderful (and higher priced) area, and surrounding areas still trying to catch up to it. There are some parts (Kidd Springs / Elmwood) which we have researched and ruled out for ourselves personally (but are definitely areas that are considered up and coming and where deals can be found). We too love the older, historic homes which is why we have narrowed our search to Lakewood, Kessler Park and another nearby area called Hollywood Heights. (We have actually fallen out of love with Lakewood and are now focused more on Kessler Park or Hollywood Heights.)
Basically, you will need to research the area for yourself--we have found that conditions can vary greatly just moving south one street. It will depend on what you are comfortable with. (For example, we have determined that we don't want to go south of Jefferson and ideally not south of Davis with Tyler street being the eastern border.)
With All the Trimmings
Just do it!
If you are wanting to stay in that area when you have kids and don't want to go the private root, then do extensive research on the schools in that area. Last week, DISD voted to close 11 schools and some may be in that area. The elementary schools are probably pretty good, but it starts going downhill in middle school. State testing becomes more difficult so ratings go down. Also, while I went to DISD schools through 8th grade, if you are wanting your children to be part of AP programs once they get to HS, you may find that the offerings are not as large as suburban schools. I can, however, recommend the TAG (Talented and Gifted) Magnet or Science and Engineering--I think they are both now housed in the Townview Center. They are extremely high performing and they have both been at the top of US News Weekly World Report for several years in a row. I do think that DISD does many things right and I think they are getting better in many areas. I just highly suggest doing some research about the neighborhood schools.
Also, there are many newer schools throughout DISD and they are going through some big renovations on many campuses. If you do a drive by, you might not like the outside of the building but check and see if they are doing some work.
If I ever get to move back into Dallas proper (we live north in Denton), we will move to the White Rock area, Little Forest Hills, Lochwood or Uptown-ish area.
With All the Trimmings
Just do it!
I'm going to have to respectfully disagree with both Stephanie and Julie in regards to the schools in the areas you are looking at.
Not only am I teacher in DISD, but I teach at the high school most kids in that area go to. Both the middle schools and all the elementary schools that feed into my school (Sunset High School) are Exemplary schools. That is the highest ranking in our state standardized testing. My high school just barely missed (by 8 kids graduating) being a Recognized high school - there are only a few in the ENTIRE district.
As far as AP classes go, my school not only has as many classes to choose from as the suburban schools do, but we don't kick any of our students out of our program if they aren't "AP" kids. We work with them more to ensure their success. Once a kid is in our AP program it's a very difficult process to try to get out.
This is just true for my school and our feeder schools - the area you are looking into - I can not say that the same is true for any other schools in the district.
If you have any further questions about this particular area's schools let me know.
I'm sorry if I sound harsh, but I love this area and am very protective of it. So, when anyone says something that is not the absolute truth I tend to get fired up.
Stephanie and Julie, you both know how cray cray I can get!
Stephanie - wow! Thanks, once again, for great tips and advice. I just started looking over at the Hollywood Heights area and it looks so nice. My husband and I really love old, historic neighborhoods. We live in Irvine right now, which is a master-planned community in Orange County, and we HATE IT! After living in Los Angeles for so long, then moving to the hard-core burbs, we didn't realize how much we would miss the unique-ness and history a big city can bring. Just little coffee shops and neighborhood markets and diners...all we have in Irvine is big chain restaurants and strip malls, and every house looks the same!
To Julie and rcpm44 - thanks for the info on schools. Kids are at least another year away for us, so we have plenty of time to worry about high schools. I love the fact though that there are passionate teachers in the so-called "inner city" schools that really fight for their kids to do well. I went to a private school and honestly missed out on a lot - I think such a diverse community has a lot to offer, too.
Rcpm44 - do you live in the Oak Cliff area? What's your favorite part?
We will be visiting in April to find an apartment and I plan on spending tons of time in these neighborhoods just soaking them in. It's so hard to get a feel for a place that we will fit in just from online (we last visited Dallas like 6 years ago).
Thanks again!!! You ladies rock!
Renee,
I didn't realize that the Bishop Arts District fed to Sunset. You know that I would never have said that about your school. For some reason, I thought Sunset was more Pleasant Grove.
I was a product of DISD from 3rd grade to 8th grade and I was accepted into the TAG Magnet and was devastated that I didn't get to go (we moved). I do think that DISD for the most part does its very best for its students, but I think that could also be said for any other district in the state.
I know Julie! I was more teasing you guys than anything. No worries!
MattsGirl, I do not live in Oak Cliff for a few reasons. As any teacher can tell you it's better not to live in the area you teach in. We live in Irving because it's equidistant for both my Husband - who works in the complete opposite direction - and I to our work.
I would seriously use Stephanie's borders as an area to stay within, she's right on the money. But don't be worried about the DISD schools in that area because this particular feeder pattern is probably one of the few that are competitive with the 'burbs.
Thanks for posting this!! Bishop Arts/Kessler Park is the exact area DH & I are looking to move to, so I'm totally using this info for my own benefit. hehehehe
I'm slightly concerned about crime, but Kessler Park definitely looks like the best option. I've read a few troubling things on the Dallas crime report for Bishop Arts area.....
Steph - thanks for the street info.
OP - Welcome to Dallas! I relocated here from LA last summer
We've done the crime comparisons--the zip codes we are looking in are no worse than anywhere else really. The only thing about Oak Cliff is the surrounding areas aren't as nice and built up--for instance, I would probably come into Uptown for shopping. Lakewood is a nicer community as far as shops, restaurants, etc., but we hate the traffic and it's noisier. But I think Oak Cliff will get there eventually. And the neighborhoods are so nice and quiet.
With All the Trimmings
Just do it!
We were thinking about moving into that area, but someone was shot ( not killed) steps from our would be driveway. That upset H and he has since refused to even think about moving in over there. You can get shot/robbed/killed anywhere...He can be such a girl at times...
I happen to love that area. Kessler is great, I'd move closer to Methodist than Davis though.
Where did you live in Los Angeles? How do you like Dallas compared to LA? Any tips for relocating?
I think we would like to rent in a neighborhood first, like a house or duplex, to get a good feel for the area before buying. But wow...it's amazing how it seems that buying is sometimes cheaper than renting! So not the case in Cali.
Any ideas on Winnetka Heights, specifically?
Another area we are looking at is the Lower Greenville/M-Streets area!
While that is true, there are still some parts of Oak Cliff that I wouldn't visit even during the day time. I've been to the Southside of Chicago, the projects in Philly and Gary, Indiana and all three scare the ba-jeeb-us out of me.
The M-Streets have some great duplexes (some are even two stories). The only caveat I would give is that you will be close to all the nightlife on Lower Greenville which has its own problems (people walking by your house drunk and peeing on your car, muggings, etc.) along with the St. Patrick's Day Parade every year. I'm not saying this to make you not go there but you do need to know what can possibly happen. One acquaintance does live over there and I don't think she had any problems, but I also don't know how close to Greenville she actually lives.
There are some smaller duplexes in Little Forest Hills near White Rock Lake.
Winnetka Heights is hit or miss. We go and look at houses that look sooo cute and in our price range--and then when we get there, we remember why we don't consider that area. We looked at houses Sunday actually and drove by one actually on Winnetka (and found it looked much better on the internet). Again, anything south of Jefferson we have pretty much ruled out. There is a reason the houses there are lower priced. We have seen some very nice homes in the historic district, but they are either out of our price range or don't have garages, something that we need.
My husband won't consider anything close to Greenville. It's more for the younger crowd, lots of noise, lots of traffic.
With All the Trimmings
Just do it!
We lived in the South Bay -- Hermosa Beach specifically. We lived right by the beach, so needless to say, it was quite a transition.
But we really like it in Dallas so far. There was an adjustment period, but some of that has to do with the fact that we moved here in August when it was 115 degrees out.
I'm not sure if you're originally from CA, but I am not. This obviously makes getting used to a new place a bit easier. Definitely rent first.
Feel free to send me a PM if you'd like more info - more than happy to help! :0)
This is something I have considered as well. As much as I love the neighborhood, the surrounding area does leave something to be desired. Do I really want to drive 20 minutes every time I have to go to the grocery store?
We have thought about renting before we buy to see if we really like the area but we can't afford the lease prices we've seen. So it is good to get someone else's perspective!
With All the Trimmings
Just do it!
I've considered the shopping thing, too, and wasn't quite sure how bad it really is. I see from online that there is only like one Tom Thumb close by. I would think, though, that more stores will start opening soon? Maybe not soon, enough, though. Right now where we live in Irvine funny enough is kind of a trek to get to a grocery store. There is a mall right across from us, but that doesn't help when you need to get something to make breakfast on a Saturday morning. And at that it's only about 10 minutes away, which is annoying to us.
We noticed that there are new apartments called the Zang Triangle, which look cool, although a little pricey. We are going to look into these.
I also read about a complex in Uptown called something like the Phoenix on Mockingbird. These seem super cool in that they are right across from a market and a 24-hour fitness. However, I've read reviews that it is frat houe central. Do you think that's true?
We just booked our trip for April to come out and find a place to live. We are staying 4 nights at the Belmont Hotel (hope that's not too long), and then two nights in Addison. I think Addison might be too far of a commute on a daily basis, though, to Downtown.
Mnkate - I worked in El Segundo for years and we even lived there for a time. I love the South Bay! We were mostly in the Culver City area until we moved to Irvine. I will definitely miss the ocean!
Missjanel - where did you live in the OC? Irvine has grown up huge over the years. I also work in an area called Ladera Ranch (above San Juan Cap), that didn't even exist 10 years ago from what I've heard. But...sadly it is all way too cookie-cutter for our tastes (and too expensive!).
~ Katie
I go to the dentist across from that complex (where the 24-Hour is). It is the corner of Mockingbird and Greenville and again, you are talking a very busy high traffic area. I personally would hate living there but it is close to lots of shopping, etc., and is very close to our famous Campisi's pizza!
The Belmont is very cool and is in Oak Cliff so you will be able to get a feel for the surrounding area. It has a great patio with a nice view of the downtown Dallas skyline. Me and DH have had many a cocktail there. I don't know much about Addison except that it has lots of bars, etc. and again is a busy area with lots of singles/couples and nice apartments.
If you haven't already found it, the City-Data.com Dallas forum is a wealth of information on different communities. Here is a small thread on the Zang Triangle.
http://www.city-data.com/forum/dallas/1488770-bishop-art-district-good-area-live.html
With All the Trimmings
Just do it!
I lived in Laguna Beach for about 5 years. I worked in Irvine though.
I left in late '98 and moved to Texas. You will be amazed in the differences between the two states.
I hate Tom Thumb so we usually made the weekend trek to Whole Foods or Central Market. I didn't mind that so much because it was only once a week. But I wanted to get out with my then newborn and there were no kid friendly places. Things I went out of Oak Cliff for were (mostly kid related):
Chick-Fil-A
Target
Gymboree
Pump-It-Up
Pinkberry
Barnes and Noble (story time)
Any of the popular swim schools
It just seemed like everyday I was driving north 20 minutes to get out of the house and do activities with my son. I could have lived with the petty crime (2 incidents in 12 months) and poor schools but it just didn't seem to fit our lifestyle. If you don't have kids and you want to hang out in the wine bars then it's a great neighborhood with an indy vibe.
I love, love, love Laguna Beach! The beach cities in OC are so much different than the inner cities, like Irvine and Santa Ana. I?m not a huge fan of Newport and the ?OC housewife? crowd, though.
It?s funny b/c we are not really ?indy? and we are definitely not young ? I?ll be 35 in a few months! But we just don?t want typical track home, big box stores, chain-only restaurants that you find in most suburbs (especially Irvine!). I guess I don?t know where we will fit, really. I want a relatively safe and quiet place with a sense of community, but also with culture and many places to eat and shop. It?s probably my little utopia that doesn?t exist. We also want a place with good churches to choose from, and my husband will probably end up going back to school at night somewhere for some type of grad work, possibly law school.
I grew up in Oklahoma City, and my husband was born and raised in Los Angeles. We chose Dallas because it is the closest big city to my family and I think there are almost as many opportunities in Dallas as there are out here. (I hope!) We have both wanted to move to Dallas for quite some time.
I guess in the beginning as renters it won?t be that huge of a deal where we live. BUT, I don?t want to pick a place that will turn us off on Dallas altogether to where we regret moving, just because we picked the wrong community (does that make sense?).
I think there are a lot of areas that you might like. Maybe look into Little Forest Hills, Lake Highlands, and even North Dallas. I was totally against North Dallas initially because I didn't want to live around snooty people either but I really love it here. It's the right mix of independent shops and restaurants plus the chain stores that we frequent. With no traffic I can be in downtown in 8 minutes. And I am within 10 minutes of just about everything. I feel very safe.
Another thing I am going to mention and take it for what it's worth. The houses you are attracted to in N. Oak Cliff, the Craftsman style bungalows are mostly wood siding. A few may be brick. Keep in mind that it will be much colder in the winter and much hotter in the summer than what you are used to in OC. The older homes, while charming have much higher utility costs. Our house was built in 1956 and was custom built with high end materials, yet it's still drafty around the windows and utility costs are definitely higher. I can't imagine what the homes built with wood siding in the 20's and 30's cost to heat and cool. I wouldn't give it up because I love mid century style homes and I love our neighborhood but it can be hard to handle at times. It doesn't help that our lot is large too. This past summer's drought conditions were unbearable. Our August water bill was $430. I wanted to cry.
I'm not saying move out to Frisco in a cookie cutter neighborhood, but just know what you're getting into. Especially if you are buying versus renting. There are all kinds of factors that make up how happy you will be in your new life. Do you have any idea what part of town you're going to be working in?