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Dance Moms (and other hardcore sport/activity parents)
Admittedly, Dance Moms is one of my guilty pleasures. I just can't resist the trainwreck of a dance teacher AbbyLee is....and those mothers (some I like, some I abhor)....but I also LOVE watching those sweet & precious little girls, who really are talented, beautiful dancers! But I can't help but be mystified by how some of those mothers would constantly subject their children to what really amounts to verbal absue (in some cases) from AL. And I wonder if those mothers do it because they honestly think their children will become professional dancers. I just don't get what motivates them to continue to put up with AL's BS.
If you follow the show, just recently Brooke, one of the oldest, wanted to instead try out for cheerleading at school rather than go to a dance competition. Boy did AL throw a royal FIT about that! Luckily, the mom did actually support her daughter's decision and she did make the squad at school.
So I'm curious....at what point is it going too far? I mean, I get pushing your children to an extent (I believe they should fulfil basic commitments and not quit mid-season, etc)....but at what point do you say enough is enough, and stop pushing (or in some cases forcing) your child so hard. I mean, let's face it.....the chances of your child actually making a long-term career out of their sport is slim to none.
On the other hand, I did a lot of activities growing up (dance, gymnastics, etc) that I sometimes wish maybe my parents would've pushed me a little harder in...or at least encouraged me to stay in a little longer.
I am especially interested in kdw, star & melissa's perspective on this, being that y'all probably run in to parents like this who seem to want it (the fame/the recognition/the limelight) MORE than their children.
Just curious what other people's opinions are re: this topic in general.
Re: Dance Moms (and other hardcore sport/activity parents)
i am the opposite of you. i wish at times that my parents would have let me step off of teams where the coaches were verbally abusive. especially the club teams when i was younger. i can almost guarantee you that a couple of my coaches took my self esteem down several points between 5th and 10th grades.
i don't know that my parents understood the extent of the yelling/demeaning, though.
it's really difficult as a parent to know when to say something to a coach, though. especially in high school.
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I'm not sure we're opposites on this at all, jax. I'm not sure how I implied that above, but I would NEVER subject my child to the verbal absue that AL projects onto those kids. And as to the parents (not) understanding the extent of it...those mothers witness it FIRST hand, and often participate in their own yelling matches with AL. It's just all together atrocious behavior, and something I would NEVER subject my child to.
I was only stating that there are a few activities I participated in when younger than I just kinda lost interest in for one reason or another (but NEVER because of mean coaches) that I wish maybe my parents would have encouraged me to stick with a little longer. I never had any type of instructor who was anything CLOSE to as mean/degrading as AL!
In my theater career, I ran into a few parents who were that way but came across just as many that also the child really wanted more involvement out of them. Where the parent would basically use the theater as a sitter service; dropping their kid off in the morning before the matinee and leaving them there through the night performance whether they were part of the kids group or not. They figured they could watch, hang out and be fed since actors got the buffet for free each day.
The worst case I saw was a girl who the Mother was so strict with her eating I'd find her hiding in the dressing room scarfing down a cupcake. She was curled into a corner nearly hidden by the costumes eating it. When she with her Mom, she would be allowed a salad which she just picked at. Incidentally, this young girl did go on to be a pretty big character on a number of soap operas, but I'm sure she is messed up and has an eating disorder. You could also tell her Mom looked down on me because of my weight despite the parts I had.
The closest Mom I experienced to one of the dance Mom's was the Mom of 2 little red heads. You'd think it was her up on stage. While i realize in a way it is the parent up there., this woman just was bonkers. She also encouraged the bad behaviour of her daughters. They were Bridgette and Natalie! How dare everyone else not worship them! The girls weren't bad, but they weren't the best of the talent we had. Every year, the theater does a promo with segments of the next seasons shows and invites tour groups/travel operators,etc. The cast of the current show are the ones that do the promo so just because they had you perform a particular role in that promo does in no way say it's yours for the actual show. In fact, it was very rare for that to be the case. Well, they had Bridgette perform a segment from Annie which of course included singing Tomorrow. The Mother somehow got from that that her daughter had that role. She went and told everyone she knew. Needless to say, they had never even considered Bridgette for the role, in part because of her behavior and Mom. Well, when the Mom found out later that some other girl was given the role and her daughter was even the understudy, she went ballistic. She called the director of the show, the general manager, the casting director and the theater owner and chewed them all out making threats. Needless to say, they never worked there again.
I ran into the above family several years later at another theater. They totally tried kissing my butt. I guess the other theaters the girls worked for wouldn't take the crap either. Previously they would say nasty things about or to me due to me being the "child wrangler" because on the whole the youngsters liked me and i was normally the youngest of the adult cast. Plus, I had put Bridgette in her place after she made one of our other child actors in the show cry.
Well, that's my story. I think shows like Dance Mom's or anything relating to that like Toddlers and Tiaras or anything about stage moms (Hello Mama Rose!) is a trainwreck waiting to happen. On tv it's hard to believe any of it to be real or not scripted. Unfortunately, it happens and it amazes me how many of the powers that be actually put up with it and don't just blackball them or the child. it's because they are continuing to be allowed to behave that,either by the parents who send their kids to people like that or by the people that hire them, that it continues to happen and we take a guilty pleasure in watching the destruction in one form or another, mostly of the child.
i don't think i meant i was opposite in the way you thought... lemme go back and read.
i think i mean that i totally don't wish my parents had pushed me so hard. i guess that's really not it either, i just wish coaches weren't such a$$es.
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I would be furious if one of my girls missed a dance contest for a tryout for another team. Etc. It would be a boat load of demerits.
I would never EVER speak to my kids the way she does. I'd expect to be fired in a heartbeat.
On the same token I sometimes wish I could say back to parents what they lash out at me. I feel as though being a public school teacher you have to "sit and take it" at times. If I owned the studio and you talked to me that way I would ask you to leave. I would not speak the way to those ladies the same as AL does in the first place. I think you have to give respect to get. If I *was* ever to talk back to the parents it would never ever be done in front of the kids.
The dance studio world is a crazzzzzzzzzzzzzzyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy place to begin with though.
C will also finish anything she starts(at least for the season/year). The only reason I would ever let her quit is if the coach was verbally demeaning like AL.
My sisters and I danced growing up, though I was more into than them (VERY into ballet), while they got really big into gymnastics.
My mom was pretty into it but never mean or pushy about it. We had to behave, be polite, participate in class, etc., and if we asked to take a class we were required to finish it for the year but didn't have to do it again next year.
My mom never forced us to practice for hours on end, though, or anything like that. She'd happily pay for expensive costumes, choreography, travel, whatever, buy us any dance/gym stuff we wanted/needed, probably to the point of spoiling us. I spent 6 weeks on my own at Ballet Austin for 2 summers in high school but I asked to do it. I can't even imagine how much money she must have spent each month on ballet stuff and that was cheap compared to gym for my sisters.
I was lucky, though, in that the studio I went to is top-notch BUT is pretty professional. I never had to deal with anything close to verbal abuse. Yes, some of the instructors were strict, but they were never mean and never personal. It was a great experience and I fully intend for our kiddos to go there if they are interested.
Not to sound conceited but I was actually very good, generally always had leads, big parts, won competitions (didn't do a ton of them, just a few big ones), etc. At my studio, it really seemed to be mostly the girls whose moms had been dancers but were never very successful that pushed too hard. Ironically, their daughters were never the best, just mediocre.
I would NEVER condone the way AbbyLee talks to the kids or the moms on her show. She is horrible.
I do, however, agree that she had a right to be LIVID over Brooke missing a competition where the group dance was choreographed around her.
And I think that Abby made a good point when she said, "why would you want to go cheer for another sport when you can be the star of your own sport?" It adds insult to injury that she made a commitment to be part of the team and missed the event to try out for another.
At the same time, I don't know that cheerleader tryouts are timed to where she could have avoided it. They certainly don't want to let you have an individual tryout and would say that if you wanted to attend something to which you had already made a commitment, you must not be committed to cheerleading.
Either way the kid is in a lose-lose situation.
The best solution IMO would have been to plan MUCH further ahead, telling Abby that Brooke had a school conflict and wasn't going to be able to make the competition scheduled for that particular weekend, long before Abby announced there would be a group dance choreographed around Brooke. There is NO reason she should have received that news while the other kids were practicing. (But her calling out "Broooooke!?!" randomly during the practice was also ridiculous -like Brooke was loitering in the lobby or something when her sister was inside practicing).
So to address your initial questions, I can't see subjecting my kid to the abuse Abby Lee submits them to. She is mean. The pyramid is supposedly a product of the show (not something she used before filming) but she utilizes it to manipulate the kids and that is wrong. When both Chloe and Maddie performed well, they both could have been at the top. But this last week, Chloe was finally at the top and it was like Abby was chomping at the bit to knock her off of it. I don't get it - I know Maddie is her star but why can't she have two and cultivate both of them?
AbbyLee's method of tearing a kid down right before they perform is BS. When she makes comments to the kids about their mothers not caring about them or making them a priority because they have to work or have some other conflict is abusive. When she punishes them because she had a tiff with their moms, that is just down right cruel.
I would never have the yelling matches that are common on that show. If I had even one like that it'd be hard to continue that relationship. If it happened in front of my kid it'd be even harder. If it happened twice I'd be out of there.
I do think that Chloe and Maddie have a chance to be professionals and can see why they would keep their kids at AL because of that. I don't see why the others do, especially with her risquee choreography and costumes on top of everything else.
Chloe is sensitive, but she is also getting tougher and i think you have to be touch in the dance industry. I think Maddie will have a harder time some day because she isn't used to AL's abuse like Chloe is. Chloe will likely never break in front of a coach or instructor as an adult because they will have nothing on AL.
The one saving grace of the show has been that for the most part the mothers never dis one kid for another. They might argue AL's manipulations and politicing, but until the new chick(s) came on this season they were a team, with Melissa being a bit ostracized but also very strange and possibly mentally unstable with her twitchy responses to conflict. But the last two episodes have been nuts. And the two new moms are biches.
- Paula Deen to 104.1 KRBE's Producer Eric 9/17/2011
this.
while we are expected to remain professional, we often have parents who will immediately attack us personally - full of insults and demeaning comments. i've never done that to a child, nor a parent. i do have team members who are there because their parents want them to be, and its obvious.
i'd be handing out demerits for missing a contest too. its waaaay too much preparation for a performance and i give notice well in advance.
while i always expect my team members to fulfill their obligations, if they don't want to be there i do not force them to stay on the team. i don't care how talented you are, if you don't want to be there it can become a poison that spreads.
main part or not I'd be furious about her missing. I get just as mad about one of my best dancers missing as I do about one of my weaker dancers. When you are a part of a team you are a part of a team regardless of what role you have. If you are not there you let everyone down.
I never said it was ok for a weak dancer to miss. In this particular situation (not sure if you watch the show), the little girl dancers were dancing AROUND her in the center, which makes it worse IMO. No matter what, if included in the choreography for a dance competition she knew conflicted with something else she had planned (whether cheerleading, a mathlete competition, a family wedding, or whatever), she should have been up front IMMEDIATELY whether she was worried about what AL would think or not. They wasted time and resources practicing a dance they couldn't use when they could have used an altogether different dance for that competition instead.
- Paula Deen to 104.1 KRBE's Producer Eric 9/17/2011
I firmly believe in hard work and not in coddling a child. Some of my co-workers tease "this isn't Fun, Fair, Positive Soccer". (I don't mean to offend any FFPS parents, I just choose not to agree with the theory). I am hard on my girls. I expect a lot out of them. Now, do I still watch my words and try to encourage through positive reinforcement? You bet. But sometimes a high school teenage female needs a little kick in the arse if you know what I mean.
As for younger kids, I don't want a coach/instructor to verbally bash my child but I also hope they don't necessarily take it easy on them. I think there has to be a balance and a "good" teacher will know where to draw that line.
FYI - Dance Moms is SO pre-written. They were at a competition in December at Brazoswood HS (yes, Abby and all the girls were in Clute, TX) and it was so staged. Very nice girls, just fake.
Cheer is almost a full time job right now for DD because they are in the middle of nationals season and then we go right into tryouts for next year. My rule is she has to fullfill her commitment to the team for the full season and then if she wants to quit I am fine with it. IF she were being verbally abused by the coaches (ok they do yell at them sometimes but usualy it is because the whole team totally loses all focus that day) I would probably pull her out then and there. Right now she is doing 5 hours a week (sometimes an extra 3 hour Friday night practice too) at her cheer gym and we have another 1 hour class at a tumbling gym plus a 30 min. private at the tumbling gym. I am 100% supportive of whatever DD wants and I go to every competition in the gym colors to cheer them all on but I definitely don't want to push her to do something she doesn't want to do.
There are definitely some crazy cheer moms out there but luckily it is moreso with the younger teams. DD is on a Sr. team and it bugs me how few parents do even show up to watch them compete.
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