Our tech team has launched updates to The Nest today. As a result of these updates, members of the Nest Community will need to change their password in order to continue participating in the community. In addition, The Nest community member's avatars will be replaced with generic default avatars. If you wish to revert to your original avatar, you will need to re-upload it via The Nest.
If you have questions about this, please email help@theknot.com.
Thank you.
Note: This only affects The Nest's community members and will not affect members on The Bump or The Knot.
Nervous Peeing
All right almighty Pesties. Zoey is starting to display some pretty nervous behavior, so I put it forth for your review and thoughts.
Back in December when we were at my mom's over Christmas, she got a bit skittish when my mom's friend came over with her husband and 4 sons. Zoey was fine with everyone except the husband and 2 older sons (probably early to mid teens in age, at the oldest). She was excited that people were over, but she kept backing away from these 3. Even giving them treats to give her she wasn't totally into going near them for quite a while.
About a week and a half ago, my brother and his friend came over in the evening. Zoey has met my brother plenty of times, but when he came in with his friend, she acted similarly to how she did at my mom's. Excited, but really unsure if she wanted to get anywhere near these guys.
Yesterday, my brother and dad went over to let her out during the day. My dad told me she peed when she saw my brother, so this morning (just now) I asked him about it. He said, "she was nervous, like when joe came over; at first she was really happy when she peed, then she got really sketched out...and outside she wouldn't come near me...when i finally managed to get a hand on her to try to calm her down, she immediately peed"
What's going on here? She's never had a bad experience with any male. She's never been left unattended with any guy other than H, who she's obviously completely fine with. Why is she suddenly becoming afraid (?) of guys and what do we do to help her be okay?
B/w 1/8: betas 17,345, progesterone 25.6
Re: Nervous Peeing
This is kind of what I'm thinking we should do. Just tell people to completely ignore her when they come in if she doesn't come right up to them to greet. If she hangs back, they should just ask like she's not there, and have treats at hand to give her if/when she decides to approach.
I'm just so baffled where this even came from! She is/was such a social butterfly, and now she's suddenly getting all iffy about guys that come in (she's never done it with any women yet).
B/w 1/8: betas 17,345, progesterone 25.6
Dakota is a nervous pee-er. Most of it is excitement, but she is also scared of men.
When people come over, we take her outside to meet them. It helps that its neutral territory, shes not as scared, doesn't feel like the "alpha male" is invading her territory. (Maybe this is why Zoey started - she views the men to be on her territory). The pee thing is "submissive" IMO.
As for D - we know she can't help it - hence the outside thing. So she doesn't get in trouble.
Another thing we do to help her feel more comfortable with men, is we allow her to approach them. If the man says her name and stays calm, calls her etc she's less likely to be super scared. We more or less let her think she's in control.
Well - I'm not sure if this made any sense...I think I rambled a bit - but, I think there's some good info in here...somewhere...
Weird question...were they wearing hats?
I don't know about yesterday, but when my brother and his friend came in last week, they were not. H wears baseball caps a lot, so she shouldn't have an issue with those, at least.
B/w 1/8: betas 17,345, progesterone 25.6
I have a dog with fear issues, directed at men, and including nervous peeing. Mine is probably an extreme case, but we took a class on scared dogs as part of our behavior modification with him. Some of the tips that they gave us were:
* Don't let strangers or in our case, men, pat on the top of the head or behind the ears. Chest or back only. And don't let them pat for more than a count of 4.
* Don't have the fear objects give the treats - you give the treats as a reward for dealing with the fear.
* If she's really fearful, tell the guys not to reach for her, even if she comes close. Part of ours' anxiety is the idea that people are unpredictable - which is reinforced when someone suddenly reaches out.
* Tell them not to face her front to front or stare directly - both are aggressive postures. Tell them to yawn or lick their lips - especially if she's doing that (non-threat postures).
* Teach hand targeting and a touch command. This is something she can practice with you as a diversion from focusing on the fear object, or something she can do with friendly strangers (you still give the rewards though).
* Teach an emergency U-Turn or a Behind command - we use behind with Buddy - that way if he feels scared he knows he can stand behind me instead of just shutting down.
I also know that peeing is a submissive posture - you might want to practice leashing unleashing when she's EMPTY with you giving rewards to try to create a positive association with the action...as long as she's not afraid of the person in a normal circumstance. but it sounds like it might help to work on her interactions with men in general, and not just a specific action.
Hope some of that is helpful!
Eshee, TY for providing so much info!
She's not a generally fearful girl AT ALL. Like I said, she's always been a total social butterfly and just looooooves meeting new people. It's just recently that she's started showing this nervousness/uncertainty around some men (it's super weird, because she's totally fine with my dad, but then gets freaked by my brother, who's basically just a skinnier version of my dad).
I never knew it wasn't a good idea to have the new people give her treats; I always thought, and had heard, that it helped the dog associate the person with something good. But I guess that still works if I'm the one treating her.
By "hand targeting" and a "touch command," what do you mean exactly? Am I looking for her to touch my hand? Another body part?
Also, practicing leashing/unleashing. She's great with being leashed/harnessed to go out. Sometimes she's just too excited to sit still for us to do it! Lol. Strangers never leash or unleash her. When my dad and brother came over yesterday to let her out, they were just taking her in the backyard. It's all fenced in, so no leash necessary.
Thanks again for the tips! I'm going to have to print this out and go over it with H when he gets home from working out of town and start practicing.
B/w 1/8: betas 17,345, progesterone 25.6
Hey, no problem - it's fresh in my mind because we're currently in the classes (we graduate next week). On the strangers having food thing...that's what I thought too, but our trainer's advice was that there's a difference between luring or bribing the dog to do something that they're afraid of (proximity of the stranger) and conditioning or rewarding a positive change in behavior (getting closer, checking someone out without being too afraid). I think it probably matters less if the dog is only slightly fearful, and I'll admit that my hub still gives Buddy treats from time to time (he can't help it). I will say that Buddy has made AMAZING progress in the class though, so the trainer is doing something right!
Yeah, so I'm sure someone more knowledgeable than me could describe it in proper terms, but basically with both our dogs, we hold a flat palm out to the side and ask for a "Touch" - when they touch nose to hand they get a treat. I've found with our scaredy dog that it helps him to have a "job" when he's near someone that makes him nervous - he seems to have a lot of anxiety around not knowing what to do with people. We don't have him touch complete strangers, but we do practice it with people that are at least somewhat familiar with him. With complete strangers, i'll ask him to touch me, which distracts him a bit from worrying.
And ah - gotcha on the leash. I do know that it's leashing with Buddy - just touching his neck area is enough to put him into a submissive posture. So maybe it's just where your brother touched her was enough to but her into that mode.
The other thing we do with Buddy that might be helpful is my h sits on the floor facing a different direction than Buddy - if Buddy approaches him or sniffs him he gets a treat from me. Might be worth trying with her and your brother!
Aha! That's all pretty clear now. Gives me a few things to work on with her. I'll have to see if I can get my brother back over in the next couple of days to work with her around him.
I just can't get over it! I mean, she's met him and been around him a dozen times and never acted like this before. Heck, she was all cuddled up on the couch with him a couple of weeks ago!
B/w 1/8: betas 17,345, progesterone 25.6