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My TIP (warning: long)
So...I mentioned some TIP, but said it was nothing serious. I was wrong. Last Wednesday I came home from work after a rough day, DH was playing his video game and didn't even take a break to check in and see how I was doing (like, cried at work rough day, which I never do). I got upset, talked to him after he was done playing for the night.
The upshot: he thinks we are fundamentally incompatible, that he may have married me just out of comfort and fear of the unknown, and he doesn't think he's willing to work on the relationship and so is learning more towards divorce, though he's not sure about anything. He's willing to go to individual therapy to work on his issues because he respects the institution of marriage. He still loves me and thinks he always will, no matter what.
Lots has happened since then. He's still in limbo, going back and forth on what he wants while we're living together still. I think we've both hurt each other a lot in our marriage. I think we've neglected important things for a REALLY long time, some of them from even before we got married. I also think he sounds REALLY depressed in a lot of how he talks to me about this. We had sex Friday night/Saturday morning and since have said we probably shouldn't do that any more. But yet at times we're both struggling to resist tearing off each others' clothes. Lack of sex has been one of the many issues in our relationship.
He still hasn't scheduled an individual therapy session, though he's stated a plan to do so ASAP and has been calling therapists most days to try to find someone he clicks with who has availability.
I'm confused, hurt, unsure how to proceed. My moods change from hopeful to sad to angry to confused and back again. He is keeping his phone very close and locking his computer, which scream suspicious activity to me. However one of the issues, aside from his past marijuana use and lying about it, was me getting freaked out by that and snooping in his phone and e-mail a couple of times. We never went to couple's counseling to work through the trust issues. I see fault on both sides of the relationship, but I disagree with him. I think our marriage is fixable if we're both committed to working to improve things.
I needed a safe place to vent, and a place to get advice. I'm seeing my therapist every week right now. I've gotten my stress and anxiety down to a point where they're no longer affecting my digestive system so severely. He's pulling away and walling himself off more emotionally, which is another thing that's contributed so much to where we are now. Logically, I know that he's probably feeling overwhelmed with the idea of the work involved in feeling better about himself, so he can't even imagine taking on marriage counseling. It hurts that he says he doesn't know if he'll be open to it in the future and wants to talk to a therapist first, instead of being able to say that he'll consider it once he's spent time in individual therapy.
Ugh, I'm sorry, I know this post is all over the place. I just don't know what to do. Support please, TIP?
Re: My TIP (warning: long)
((hugs))
I'm so sorry, Jessimau. You know we are here for you, to support you. You're a great person.
Objectively speaking (as if one could be objective faced with your situation), I'd be hoping for the best but planning for the worst. Get your financial docs in order first and foremost -- suspicious activity is suspicious.
Second, is a trial separation feasible? It seems like with so much uncertainty on how to proceed both individually (both of you) and as a couple, you would both benefit from some distance at this time. Understand you're not throwing in the towel, but need space to devise a roadmap to your next destination: resolution or dissolution.
My heart is hurting for you, and I sympathize that whatever happens in the long run, what happens next is very, very hard.
Thank you fuss, I really appreciate it. The good news is that there is very little financially to get in order. We have one joint account and he puts very little pay into it (his last check was a measly $320).
I think my fear with a trial separation is that it will lead to him completely shutting off from me emotionally. Last night he told me that his heart is sad and that he's scared to try opening up to me again because he's felt so hurt and rejected in the past. I've felt hurt and rejected, but my response is different. I'd be willing to try a trial separation at some point, I think, even though it scares me. I'm hoping he gets a great individual therapist who smacks some sense into him.
I think you know my relationship with my MIL is not great. He told her that we're having problems and even she advised him to stick it out and try to work through things with me. Everyone in his life has told him that, from his report. Ugh, I'm driving myself nuts. Thank you again for your support.
That sucks. I am sorry.
You are doing the right thing by taking care of yourself, seeing a therapist and working on you.
All you can do for him is continue to encourage him to seek help, work on him, etc. You can not control him or make him help himself. He has to want to. Depression can be really hard.
All you can do is be committed to yourself and providing you with the life you want. Good luck. You are doing the right thing.
When you've been married this long, you need a ticker to remind you.
Baby Boy M - 08/01/2013
Well I think at a certain point you have to face this fear and see what it means. We fear things that are bad for us -- painful things, harmful things, things that cause us illness or death. You are thinking like a therapist when I think you should be thinking first and foremost like a wife -- not what could he be doing for me, but what should he be doing for me? Is he willing to do for me all that I'm willing to do for him? There seems to be a structural imbalance here that, if my experience with therapy is any indication, therapy, either individually or jointly, really won't resolve.
I mean, you're hanging your hopes on your H finding a great therapist, him being receptive to that therapist "smacking sense into him,: AND all beneficial recommended changes (i.e. smacked sense) being implemented flawlessly and consistently for the rest of your lives. How likely is this really? How long can you wait for that to happen? In your professional opinion, is past not really prologue?
This is true. It's hard to separate my therapeutic perspective. I noticed that he seemed to be getting more and more depressed over time and that things seemed to get worse and worse between us. I think I'm so excited that he's finally going to see an individual therapist that I'm willing to wait a little while to see the outcome. Right now I'm feeling the imbalance too. I've been making small changes in my behavior to try to show that it can be done, as a way to try to give him some hope/window into what's possible. I know that he's not in a place to be able to do that, so right now I'm holding back my frustration about being "the only one trying." I know his efforts will look different from mine. But I also know that I can't maintain this forever. If he doesn't make changes and try to start appreciating me and everything I do, then I will not put up with this forever.
Damik, thank you for what you said. It made me cry a little.
ugh I'm sorry Jess.
Here is my 2 cents...
He still hasn't scheduled an individual therapy session, though he's stated a plan to do so ASAP and has been calling therapists most days to try to find someone he clicks with who has availability.
Sounds like he is stalling to me. Sounds like he is just saying this to show you half assed that he is trying. I call BS.
If you had read your post and were giving advice what would you tell yourself to do?
The thing that sticks out to me is that he can't seem to make up his mind. I dont know the time line on this but I do know that if my H said that to me, he'd have VERY LIITLE time to figure it out. WHY would you want to be with someone who can't figure out if he wants to be with you? Its not like you just met~! He knows who and what you are. He is either in love withyou or he isnt. He hasnt said I really want to fix this, I want to work this out, Im going to try everything...etc.. I think you are hanging too much on this therapy that he hasn't even started yet.
I hope it goes however you want it to, and I know you love him, but this sounds so one sided to me from this post.
((((Jess)))
I have to ditto Mags. It sounds like he's stalling for time, for what reason I couldn't tell you... If he thinks you're incompatible as people, why would he drag his heels in terms of exhausting his resources as speedily as possible so you can just both move on? IDK.
Hugs, Jessi.
{edited because holy sh*t did that sentence not make sense}
The dreaded "this".
((((Jess))))
It definitely sounds like he is shutting down and using the word divorce as a self defense mechanism. That alone is hurtful but the fact that he is dragging his feet on counseling would really hurt me. If he isn't willing to do couples counseling for awhile, that's pretty much asking you to sit in limbo with a potential divorce ultimatum hanging over your head. Unfair and selfish. Obviously he has significant personal problems and he needs to work through those, but you also need to process together how they've hurt both of you. Even though you say you're willing to stay all in and work through it I can't imagine that his behavior hasn't caused you to check out emotionally to some degree as well.
I think in your shoes I would want a trial separation. Being in the house with him would make my anxiety worse and I would be just waiting and watching him and wkndering. Definitely put the effort into your marriage but not at the cost of your own emotional well being. He's more or less told you that he's not lOoking out for your best interest anymore.
ditto PPs. You're a very intelligent an good person, jess, and I'm sorry you're running into this. A trial separation may allow you to protect yourself while this gets sorted out.
Best of luck.
::hug::
Jessi, I'm so sorry, sweetie. Do you think that your marriage would be fine if he were able to fix himself? Even if that's the case, the fact that he has not made that first move really discourages me. As difficult as I know that move is...
I'm glad to hear that you are doing what you need to do for you to stay healthy. I'm sending you lots of hugs. I hope you are able to get to where you need to be. Make yourself number one right now.
If you are not receiving the emotional support you need from your partner, that is a big problem. It is good that you are both in therapy. Are you also attending or considering MC?
This part doesn't make sense to me: We had sex Friday night/Saturday morning and since have said we probably shouldn't do that any more. But yet at times we're both struggling to resist tearing off each others' clothes. Lack of sex has been one of the many issues in our relationship.
If you are both struggling to resist tearing each others' clothes off, how is lack of sex an issue?
I agree that his behaviour with his phone and computer is suspicious. People who have nothing to hide, hide nothing. If your antennae are up, trust that feeling. If he is involved or getting involved with someone else, he will further detach from you.
Best of luck. This post sounds so sad.
I am going to be blunt here:
Even if he figured his shyt out tomorrow, would you want him?
Be honest with yourself. He isn't being a supportive and empathetic partner to you. He was not being a sexually loving partner. He has not been an equal financial partner in the marriage. He has not acted in a trustworthy manner. He hasn't even said things that would make you think he was thoroughly invested in your marriage.
The question isn't whether this marriage can be saved. The question is whether or not you should want to fix it.
I am sure he is a great person, but he is not being a great person to you.
I love you, Jessimau. And this is why I'm going to be completely blunt.
I think you're delaying the inevitable.
{{hugs}}
Currently Reading: Don Quixote by Miguel De Cervantes
If my H told me he thought we were fundamentally incompatible and that he probably just married me out of comfort and fear it would irrevocably change our relationship.
I would be beyond hurt, angry, and upset. And I'm not sure I would ever be able to get over it.
I'm sorry this is happening, I wish you all the best.
Yeah, how do you unhear that and move forward?
Currently Reading: Don Quixote by Miguel De Cervantes
I'm so sorry jess, I hate this for you. You are such a sweet, smart and amazing woman. You always provide support and insightful advice to everyone here.
I can't add anything beyond what has already been said. I agree with imoan, I think you are delaying the inevitable, sorry.
It seems like you are putting all your hope in counseling fixing him, but he hasn't even made the appointment yet. And even if he does go to counseling, that won't change the fact that he admitted to marrying you for the wrong reasons
Continue to take care of yourself and stay strong.
I'm sorry you're going through this. I think counseling for yourself is very wise, and maybe it'll help you somewhat.
I think the only thing I would do is insist on marriage counseling. Individual counseling is fine, but I don't think the joint counseling should be put on the back burner for long.
Aw, Jess. I gasped after reading your post.
Do what's best for you at this point, not the relationship. Give yourself a break. This sucks, I'm so sorry. *big hug*
If you need some time away, just holler.
I am sad for you on so many levels. I would be devasted if DH said he may have married me out of fear of the unknown. I am sad that he seems afraid of therapy of any kind. I hope he gets help for his depression and other issues.
It is good to know that you are in therapy yourself. (((hugs))) Vent here as much as you need.
Thank you ladies, all of you. I really appreciate everything you're saying. None of you are saying things I haven't thought.
I think the reason that I'm willing to stick around for a while to see the impact of individual therapy is because he sounds so profoundly depressed, and my professional side gets involved, and I know that he can't make any good decisions in this state.
I know that I can't unhear what's been said. It's felt like he's been trying to push me away. The conversation that prompted all of this was one in which I was expressing my hurt for him not responding to my emotional needs. He kept putting himself down as a husband. It felt like he was trying to push me away and hurt me to make himself not feel quite so badly.
I know I'm justifying, grasping at straws, reaching, etc. I also know that right now this is what I need to do for myself. I've told him that I think there are things we'd have to talk about in couple's counseling and that it wouldn't seem right to me to walk away saying the marriage isn't fixable when we've never brought in a professional to help us learn to try.
He's been calling therapists every day (or so he says), but he has something like 5 or 6 pages of multiple columns, tiny type. I was overwhelmed when I saw the list. He was beating himself up for not having an appointment scheduled yet. So much of how he's talking and acting sounds like depression. I know the man I fell in love with and married is in there somewhere. I want to give it a chance to see if he can reemerge. He admits that he's pretty close to completely emotionally walled off (not just from me, from everyone).
I talked with DH about how the phone and computer thing has been impacting me. I talked calmly, rationally, explained it by asking him to try to put himself in my position. He told me that he doesn't know why he does it, that he doesn't like that he's doing it. He's now making an effort not to do so. As in, as I was typing this post he told me he just got up from his computer and made a conscious effort not to lock it. This is probably why I end up so confused.
I'm planning to do things this weekend to get out, to have fun, and occupy my time. I'm willing to wait in the marriage for a bit, but not willing to put every aspect of my life on hold. My coworkers & friends have been awesome and all tell me I can call them to meet up, to come over to their places, whatever I need, any time. If nothing else good comes out of this, I've discovered I have a much stronger support system than I ever realized before.
you sound so strong and that you've thought this out.
you will know when/if you're ready to walk away.
i hope the man you fell in love with does re-emerge and you guys come out of this stronger and better then ever.
again i'll say, i think you're an amazing woman, you're trying to stick this out with him and his depression, but you don't seem to be losing yourself.
good luck jess! i really do hope for the best.
If he has made all these calls, why hasn't he scheduled an appt yet? For me, picking up the phone to make the call is the most impossible thing to do.
I am glad that your communication is more open now. You have a place to start and you know where each other stand, which isn't nothing.
Just, yes, try not to lose yourself in this. You and your needs are important. All of them.
I can appreciate not wanting to abandon him if he's suffering untreated depression, but the fact is it's his responsibility -- and I say that coming from someone who has suffered depression in the past and had to see the negative ramifications on my loving, supportive partner.
If addressing the depression is central to your seeing a path forward for your marriage, I'd condition your staying in the home on him getting to the doctor and getting on some meds, and that you're willing to make and take him to the appointment if he needs or wants you to. If he's too far gone that he can't make an appointment with a therapist, I think he really needs medical intervention if he's truly that depressed.
Insisting on this could accomplish a few things:
(1) Get him to a healthier place more quickly to address his issues in therapy while lessening the pollution he/his depression is putting into your shared emotional habitat.
(2) If he resists, you will know he's resisting help, and he's really too far gone to save at that point. It's painful to walk away at that point, but he hasn't hit rock bottom yet and he's only going to drag you down further till he does.
(3) He may also resist because he believes his depression is situational -- he wants out of the marriage, and thinks that medication will be unnecessary because when he's free from the marriage he will feel better.
I'm sorry he's hanging all this on your shoulders -- it is a tremendous burden on top of your own pain you are experiencing, and a very unfair one at that. Please consider this advice as a way for you to look out for yourself while still taking steps that might salvage the situation if -- and only IF -- it actually is salvageable.
If my H would have told me to get on meds for my depression when talk therapy had yet to "kick in," I would have done it in a heartbeat, because I understood that though my illness was not my fault, it was still my responsibility in the relationship to deal with.