Please tell me this is NOT normal

ColleenS629

A&R are awful sleepers. Their naps suck but I'm not even going to touch on that now... Last night they were up 9 times between 9pm and 6am. The night before they were up 7 times between 10pm and 6 am (we were out later because it was my dad's birthday but they slept at my parent's house for the beginning of their night). They will be 4 months old in 9 days. This is not the 4 month wakeful because this is how they have always slept. I can't remember being up with them less than 5 times a night and that's a rare, good night. We have a routine of (EOD bath), new diaper, lotion, BF, white noise, swaddle, bed. They are in their cribs now (made the transition 1.5 weeks ago to see if it would help... obviously it hasn't). We start at 6pm on bath days and 7pm on non-bath days. DH never gets home before 6pm so I'm not really sure how we could start earlier. I have read at least 4 sleep books (maybe more... my brain is fried from 16 weeks of no sleep). I really don't think this is normal. The pedi says they should be sleeping much longer stretches but doesn't have any other suggestion besides waiting until 6 months and Ferbering. I posted on PAL about if anyone has used sleep consultants before and some of them are saying this is a normal sleep pattern for this age. If it is, I'll shut up, but I really don't believe that it is judging by the pedi, the books, and the crankiness of my LOs.

naylon511

Caveat: I don't have twins, I didn't EBF and I think A LOT of it has to do with the kids, not what you do to help  them.  BUT......

Is it possible that they need to go to bed earlier?  For us, good sleep meant for good sleep.  If she napped well, she slept BETTER at night.   If they aren't napping much I'd venture to guess 9PM is too late.   It's a little hard to remember back that far but I know Jane was doing 9PM to 5AM, eat then to 9AM much younger than them (again, she's a sleeper though...) but when she was their age, she went to bed by 7/7:30PM.  She still does. 

So I'd say, try to get them down even earlier.  

Only other thought, and again, I didn't BF - but is it possible to get them to feed more often during the day so they are less interested in feeding at night?  I mean, even if you got them down to two wakes at night that would be an improvement!  You don't say if they are up 9 times if they are eating 9 times so who knows.

Hang in there Mama!

 

trickeytricky

I am so sorry, I know sleepless night suck and I couldn't imagine that with 2 at once. FWIW, Zac didn't STTN until he was 14 months old, waking 2 or 3 times a night right before then. Prior to that it was 5 or so times a night.

I don't know what to tell you aside from it will change eventually, I promise. And you can try what you want but I personally feel the kid is in control. We tried Ferber and it worked for a while, but it's very easy to fall off course with a vacation, a sick kid, or a simple change of routine and then you feel like you have to start all over. 

Things didn't change for us significantly until we successfully took away night time feedings, and then the bottle completely.

Thinking of you!!

ColleenS629

naylon511:

Caveat: I don't have twins, I didn't EBF and I think A LOT of it has to do with the kids, not what you do to help  them.  BUT......

Is it possible that they need to go to bed earlier?  For us, good sleep meant for good sleep.  If she napped well, she slept BETTER at night.   If they aren't napping much I'd venture to guess 9PM is too late.   It's a little hard to remember back that far but I know Jane was doing 9PM to 5AM, eat then to 9AM much younger than them (again, she's a sleeper though...) but when she was their age, she went to bed by 7/7:30PM.  She still does. 

So I'd say, try to get them down even earlier.  

Only other thought, and again, I didn't BF - but is it possible to get them to feed more often during the day so they are less interested in feeding at night?  I mean, even if you got them down to two wakes at night that would be an improvement!  You don't say if they are up 9 times if they are eating 9 times so who knows.

Hang in there Mama!

 

Thought I included that... told you my brain is fried! I only feed them once around 2am. I started this at 2 months at the advice of the pedi. They still gained 3 pounds in the month after I started so it's not that they are not getting enough food. Starting the routine at 7, we usually get them to bed at 8. 

LaurenSweat

I'm so sorry that you are going through this.  To me it definitely does NOT sound normal.

How are they napping during the day?  Do they take longer stretches or just cat nap? Are they waking each other up?  Is there a way to put them in separate rooms?

I know this may sound counter-intuitive, but have you tried keeping them up later at night?  Both of my kids always had later bed times when they were younger.  Charlie went down at 10 or 11 until he was 6 months old.  And then we moved him to 9:30 and eventually down to 8pm when he was 9 months old.  Miles is almost 3 months and he goes to bed at 10 every night.  Both took naps in the evening, but it almost helps them to relax and primes them for sleeping.  

Charlie also slept better without the swaddle once he was 3.5 months old.  Once he knew how to roll both ways he would ALWAYS roll to his stomach and sleep that way.  He slept much better like that.  I know it is not for everyone, but it was too dangerous to try and keep him from rolling so we let him sleep that way.

Another idea would maybe be that weighted suit--- I think it is some kind of miracle suit.  We never used it, but I have heard great things.

Finally, have you tried without the white noise?  My kids both hate the white noise for some reason.

I bet you have tried most of it already, but thought I would share what has worked for us! 

trickeytricky

naylon511:

Is it possible that they need to go to bed earlier?  For us, good sleep meant for good sleep.  If she napped well, she slept BETTER at night.  

I fully agree with this, I don't know how easy it is to tie in with infants though because I barely remember those days, but from crawling to 2 this has been key! They honestly sleep better when the sleep more. + they are less cranky when they aren't so tired (Duh, Trickey!) .

LaurenSweat

naylon511:

So I'd say, try to get them down even earlier.  

LOL--- And this is why babies are so confusing!  I gave the complete opposite advice  

Jennrs

I have no advice, but I do want to offer (((HUGS))). You poor thing. I hope you find something that works soon. You seriously are a super mama!

Mrs.MillerJune2008

I have to wonder if part of this is a twin thing. My friend had twins in July and really struggled with their sleep for a long time. They were only catnapping during the day, and she was trying to get them on the same schedule for BFing, naps etc. I don't know what ended up working for her, but I think she started trying to be more flexible about letting them eat at different times even though it was a total PITA for her. I also wondered about letting them sleep in separate areas. Good luck! That sounds like a nightmare! praying you get some good sleep soon.

ColleenS629

LaurenSweat:

I'm so sorry that you are going through this.  To me it definitely does NOT sound normal.

How are they napping during the day?  Do they take longer stretches or just cat nap? Are they waking each other up?  Is there a way to put them in separate rooms?

Their daytime naps are weird... they wake up very often and I have to help them get back to sleep (rocking (R), paci and sometimes rocking (A)). They will sometimes sleep for 2 hours with multiple wakings in between but sometimes will only sleep 20 minutes. 

They sometimes wake each other up. If they are in a deep sleep the other can be screaming his head off and it won't matter but if they are just falling asleep or in a light sleep they do wake each other up.

We can't separate their cribs so we would only be able to separate them temporarily. We only have 3 BRs and the third is currently an office/ guest room/ where DH keeps his clothes combo.  

I know this may sound counter-intuitive, but have you tried keeping them up later at night?  Both of my kids always had later bed times when they were younger.  Charlie went down at 10 or 11 until he was 6 months old.  And then we moved him to 9:30 and eventually down to 8pm when he was 9 months old.  Miles is almost 3 months and he goes to bed at 10 every night.  Both took naps in the evening, but it almost helps them to relax and primes them for sleeping.  

They had a later bed time, around 10pm, before and it wasn't working for us so we moved it up... which obviously isn't working either. 

Charlie also slept better without the swaddle once he was 3.5 months old.  Once he knew how to roll both ways he would ALWAYS roll to his stomach and sleep that way.  He slept much better like that.  I know it is not for everyone, but it was too dangerous to try and keep him from rolling so we let him sleep that way.

I actually want them to sleep unswaddled but we kind of shot ourselves in the foot here with having them swaddled for all naps and nighttime sleep. When I put them down without the swaddle it's like they don't know that they are supposed to sleep so they just stare at me like "WTF do you want me to do, lady?" even with just one arm out.

Another idea would maybe be that weighted suit--- I think it is some kind of miracle suit.  We never used it, but I have heard great things.

Never heard of this but I'll look into it. 

Finally, have you tried without the white noise?  My kids both hate the white noise for some reason.

We tried continuous white noise and a timer where it goes off. Neither seems to make a difference. 

I bet you have tried most of it already, but thought I would share what has worked for us! 

LaurenSweat

So it is kind of $$$, but I found the sleepsuit I mentioned.  It's called Baby Merlin's Magic Sleepsuit.  I have a couple friends who used it and swear by it.  I guess the heaviness of it is calming and kind of holds them in place.

TeacherTiff

That was normal for Nolan, unfortunately. I don't have any advice but we eventually CIO at 11 months. At that time, I was still nursing him every 2 hours around the clock.

krisdave

We tried several different approaches.  1.) playing and bath to try and wear him out before milk and bed.  2.) tried later bedtimes for a while to try and get the bulk of the sleep from 10/11 pm - 6/7 am.  3.) When he would want to be held and or rocked for a long stretch of time every few hours, we reverted to having him sleep in his swing.  The swing took his sleeping from 2 hours to 4+ hours at a stretch.  I'd camp out on the sofa for the night and have the swing running next to me.   Glad we purchased a comfy sofa for all those nights I slept there.

4.) when he started to roll, he'd immediately roll from him back (how I placed him in the crib) to his tummy.  That was when he truely started sleeping on his own through the night.  Tummy sleep = the best and longest sleep for us.

Good luck!

trickeytricky

krisdave:

4.) when he started to roll, he'd immediately roll from him back (how I placed him in the crib) to his tummy.  That was when he truely started sleeping on his own through the night.  Tummy sleep = the best and longest sleep for us.

Wow, this shows how much you truly forget, I totally forgot about this but from the get go Zac was a tummy sleeper. Yes it made me nervous but it was the only way any of us would get any sleep. You have to do what feels right to you, though.

mrsjanks

I didn't read the PPs, sorry if I repeat...

Do they need to go to bed earlier?

Give them baths every night so it's part of the routine and keep bedtime the same every night?

At 4 months old, we started to let Landon CIO some. He was up every 3 hours until just over 3 months old, and even though he would sleep 6-7 hours at 4 months old, he was still up around 1-2am to eat (went to bed at 6:30pm). If we knew he wasn't dirty or anything else, we let him CIO for 15 mins. Most of the time we wouldn't have to go in because he'd be back asleep.

Controversial... but give them rice cereal? We started this at 2.5 months for reflux and he started sleeping better when we added more.

 

 

 

Rangergal9

Colleen... this is late, so I hope you read this!  

First off ((hugs))  I do agree with others in putting them to bed earlier.  My girls have been going to bed, I mean, like in bed, at 6pm and they sleep until 7am since 4 months old.  Around 3 months they were only getting up 1x a night.  We had them swaddled and white noise.  If they woke up at night we just went in and touched them, rested our hand on them, but never picked them up.  

During the day we had them napping unswaddled in their swings.  During the day I didn't care how they slept as long as they slept!  I think they need to take better naps during the day and maybe they'll go to sleep better at night?  When my girls don't nap well they have a harder time going to bed.  I would suggest not swaddling for naps to help them realize the difference between nap time and bedtime.  Otherwise they might continue to associate the swaddle with shorter sleep periods.  

Everything is trial and error as every baby is different.  Lily was STTN and unswaddled before Hannah.  We actually had to double swaddle Hannah for two weeks to get her STTN in her crib.  

Good luck!