Holy hell...cannot believe this actually happened

missymuff

My friend M lives in Maryland and her grandmother passed away within the last two weeks.  The priest that conducted the service refused communion to M's aunt (deceased grandma's daughter)...because she's gay.  Their story has been written about in a variety of different places within the last few days.  Makes my blood boil. 

http://www.addictinginfo.org/2012/02/26/priest-walks-out-of-womans-funeral-because-of-her-gay-daughter/

http://www.wusa9.com/news/article/193305/158/Gaithersburg-Priest-Involved-In-Funeral-Controversy

What are your reactions to this?   

 

WonderRed

As a Christian, I find this kind of behavior mind boggling.  Correct me if I'm wrong but the Bible commands us to love all people as God loves us. I must have missed the day of Sunday school where they listed the exceptions and the people were were commanded to hate.  Is homosexuality a sin?  Frankly, I don't even see how that question is relevant since we are ALL sinners and, in God's eyes, all sin is equal and he loves us regardless.

I just don't understand.   I just don't.

Pesky

I just don't get that either.  Last time I checked, disapproval or judgement of someone's relationships does not support outright rudeness and disrespect to the dead.  It was a completely inappropriate time to address those issues. 

ruby soho

And this is why I refuse to baptize my child catholic 

DruidPrincess

Dude.

On one hand, I hate this not only because the shunning was so ridiculous at a time of grief and lacking of Jesus' grace, but also because he's touted as the personification of "the right."  Please know not all conservatives or "right-wingers" feel or act this way.

On the other hand, was this a possibility based on the venue of the funeral?  I have no clue about Catholicism, but I know in my Lutheran church when they offer communion they stipulate that only Lutheran church members (whether of our church or another congregation) should participate, and anyone with questions can speak to the pastor afterwards.  I haven't the foggiest how that would work if they had a funeral held at our church and offered communion... but now I want to ask my pastor.  

tra_la_la

This is just sad. The priest should be ashamed of himself. His behavior was horrible and if he had an issue with the daughter isn't that something you bring up before you agree to do the service?

CaseBride

WonderRed:

As a Christian, I find this kind of behavior mind boggling.  Correct me if I'm wrong but the Bible commands us to love all people as God loves us. I must have missed the day of Sunday school where they listed the exceptions and the people were were commanded to hate.  Is homosexuality a sin?  Frankly, I don't even see how that question is relevant since we are ALL sinners and, in God's eyes, all sin is equal and he loves us regardless.

I just don't understand.   I just don't.

This, exactly.

Sunflower22

ruby soho:

And this is why I refuse to baptize my child catholic 

1000% ditto. Despite growing up a catholic, I have no tolerance for the religion any longer. 

schoolsoutbride

I think it's within the rights of the Catholic Church to deny communion to whoever they want.  Yet they continue to single out this one group and give communion to, say, married couples who use birth control.  Therefore, I see it as political and discriminatory.

catarntina

The Catholic standpoint is that you cannot receive communion if you are not in a state of Grace.  The Catholics believe that being gay is a sin because sexual relations should only be between man and wife.  And since gays cannot be married in the Catholic church, but presumably having sex, they are in a state of grave sin.  They are also having sex without the intention of procreation -- also a sin according to Catholics.

The priest actually had every right to refuse communion.  But that being said, he should have asked every single member at the funeral to line up for confession before coming to the funeral since I'm sure most of the people were not in a state of Grace.  Technically, you're supposed to go to confession every week before Mass to put yourself back into a state of Grace.  If you are not in a state of Grace, you should not line up for communion.

I agree that he shouldn't have singled out 1 person (especially the lady's daughter).  According to Canon Law, she shouldn't have gone up for communion, knowing that she was in a state of grave sin without first confessing her sins.  And also according to Canon Law, the priest has every right to refuse communion to anyone he knows to be in a state of grave sin.

DownToEarthGirl

DruidPrincess:

Dude.

On one hand, I hate this not only because the shunning was so ridiculous at a time of grief and lacking of Jesus' grace, but also because he's touted as the personification of "the right."  Please know not all conservatives or "right-wingers" feel or act this way.

On the other hand, was this a possibility based on the venue of the funeral?  I have no clue about Catholicism, but I know in my Lutheran church when they offer communion they stipulate that only Lutheran church members (whether of our church or another congregation) should participate, and anyone with questions can speak to the pastor afterwards.  I haven't the foggiest how that would work if they had a funeral held at our church and offered communion... but now I want to ask my pastor.  

Catholics feel the same way - you basically need to be a member of the church and been through your first communion to accept the host/blood (bread/wine).  However, I've never seen someone refused...ever.  It's not the Eucharistic minister's duty to determine who is and is not able to recieve, it is that member to know their ability.  For instance, I still attend church with my family sometimes and I'm baptized, had my first communion, and was confirmed Catholic, but since I don't believe in the church anymore, I choose not to participate in communion and I stay seated during that time.  I also don't repeat certain verses that I don't believe.  I have a cousin who isn't really Catholic anymore and doesn't really believe, but still goes up for communion since it would bother his parents if he didn't.  No one has stopped him b/c he doesn't "really" believe in God. 

That being said, I know several gay Catholics who take communion and participate fully in the church (two are even Eucharistic ministers), but I won't pretend that they haven't mentioned that they felt some discrimination while following their chosen religion at times.  I'm guessing that this one priest's views are not a statement of the Catholic church so much as one uninformed, judgemental man who has flaws and thought he should judge someone else in their time of need.  Then again the American Catholic Church has this statement on their website, "The Catholic Church opposes gay marriage and the social acceptance of homosexuality and same-sex relationships, but teaches that homosexual persons deserve respect, justice and pastoral care."  That one priest did not follow through with "respect, justice, or pastoral care" IMO. 

 

taratru

Actually, being gay is not the sin.  It's the practicing of sexual relations that is.  So unless this woman was having sex with her partner in the aisle, I fail to see how the priest knows that.  And if he *did* know that, from the confessional, he isn't allowed to let that leave the confessional and make that statement.

He's a bastard for singling her out in this way in public during that time and for making assumptions.  It would be like assuming a single heterosexual girl is also having sex just because she has a boyfriend.  Totally discriminatory.

It makes me sad to be Catholic sometimes.  

RoxBride

I'm actually surprised that this is news. Catholics who are gay are not supposed to take Communion. That's their position, so be it. Last Friday I attended a friend's mother's funeral, and nope, no Communion for the 2 grandkids who are divorced, they approached for a blessing instead. Same deal.

My mother and I run the Altar Guild for our Lutheran (ELCA) church, and so spend a lot of time in discussions about Communion, and distributing Communion, and I just returned from a serviving at a funeral. And no, we do NOT decide who gets to partake. So long as you are a Baptized Christian, and old enough to understand what you are doing, you get it. To deny an individual something to significant due to rules here on earth doesn't fly with our line of thought, period.

Of course, I also belong to an denomination that will make you an ordained pastor is you are homosexual, so we certainly don't share the catholic view.

sunnytrees

catarntina:

The Catholic standpoint is that you cannot receive communion if you are not in a state of Grace.  The Catholics believe that being gay is a sin because sexual relations should only be between man and wife.  And since gays cannot be married in the Catholic church, but presumably having sex, they are in a state of grave sin.  They are also having sex without the intention of procreation -- also a sin according to Catholics.

The priest actually had every right to refuse communion.  But that being said, he should have asked every single member at the funeral to line up for confession before coming to the funeral since I'm sure most of the people were not in a state of Grace.  Technically, you're supposed to go to confession every week before Mass to put yourself back into a state of Grace.  If you are not in a state of Grace, you should not line up for communion.

I agree that he shouldn't have singled out 1 person (especially the lady's daughter).  According to Canon Law, she shouldn't have gone up for communion, knowing that she was in a state of grave sin without first confessing her sins.  And also according to Canon Law, the priest has every right to refuse communion to anyone he knows to be in a state of grave sin.

And all of this (and so much more) just solidifies even more how hard religion is for me. Not faith, spirituality, belief, but religion.

DownToEarthGirl

sunnytrees:

catarntina:

The Catholic standpoint is that you cannot receive communion if you are not in a state of Grace.  The Catholics believe that being gay is a sin because sexual relations should only be between man and wife.  And since gays cannot be married in the Catholic church, but presumably having sex, they are in a state of grave sin.  They are also having sex without the intention of procreation -- also a sin according to Catholics.

The priest actually had every right to refuse communion.  But that being said, he should have asked every single member at the funeral to line up for confession before coming to the funeral since I'm sure most of the people were not in a state of Grace.  Technically, you're supposed to go to confession every week before Mass to put yourself back into a state of Grace.  If you are not in a state of Grace, you should not line up for communion.

I agree that he shouldn't have singled out 1 person (especially the lady's daughter).  According to Canon Law, she shouldn't have gone up for communion, knowing that she was in a state of grave sin without first confessing her sins.  And also according to Canon Law, the priest has every right to refuse communion to anyone he knows to be in a state of grave sin.

And all of this (and so much more) just solidifies even more how hard religion is for me. Not faith, spirituality, belief, but religion.

I sometimes wonder if I didn't "stick" as a Catholic b/c I not only was baptized outside my childhood home under a blooming apple tree by a hippy priest from the late 70's, but I also was confirmed by a relaxed, hilarious, fun priest who ended up leaving the Catholic church when he came-out about being homosexual a few years later and moved in with his partner in Seattle. 

 

d.f

That makes me sad. I was raised Catholic (received reconciliation and communion but was have never confirmed) and left the church when I left Catholic school after 8th grade. While I understand the priest was doing something allowable by his religion it makes me sad and I think that was very much the wrong moment to make such a statement. On the rare occasion that I attend Mass (Weddings and funerals) I choose not to partake because I no longer believe. I think making the choice to go up for communion is a very personal thing and between the person and their god.

EngagedinVegas

We are all always in a state of grace, here is the definition from Webster:

unmerited divine assistance given humans for their regeneration or sanctification b : a virtue coming from God c : a state of sanctification enjoyed through divine grace 

 NOTHING we do can cause us to earn or lose a state of grace. God and ONLY God will be my judge. Our table is open to EVERYONE to partake in communion every week.

HOWEVER, the gay daughter knew what she was doing and knew the rules before she tried to take communion.

MrsKelleyT

I am a believer and do my best to live how God would want me to.  However, I have issues with many churches because of things like this.  It's not our job to judge ANYONE.  That's all up to God.

DownToEarthGirl

EngagedinVegas:

HOWEVER, the gay daughter knew what she was doing and knew the rules before she tried to take communion.

The "rules" are not as black and white as Catrina(sp?) outlined.  Yes, Cannon "Law" is out there, but most Catholics do not study or read Cannon Law - they pick up tidbits from church and parents, but don't know it very well unless they have a studied it through a divinity/theology degree program. 

Plus each Archdiosese enforces them differently.  In this case, it was that particular Archdiosese's viewpoint that they "did not believe in denying Communion because it is impossible to know what is in another person?s heart."  It was established in 2004, due to other political issues and this particular priest was going against the Archdiosese's policy. 

I'm no expert, but my sister has worked directly in dioceses where there are large gay/lesbian Catholic populations who are openly gay and serving and worshiping as Catholics.  I was talking with her about this last night and It's actually in the 1976 and 1990 Catechisms that "Homosexuals, like everyone else, should not suffer from prejudice against their basic human rights. They have a right to respect, friendship, and justice. They should have an active role in the Christian community."

Long story short, it was more of a judgement made by one individual priest, who got it wrong this time.  I'm not a Catholic anymore, but I also think ignorance and judgement by people who are closed minded (Christian or not) is something to speak up against.