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I finally spoke with my H - advice?
I told my H last night that I've hit my wall.
About 5-6 months ago, I told him I was unhappy. I think it came as a shock to him. He's the type that just thought we were in a normal rut, and is OK living a day to day life without much affection and outward love for each other. Since then, we've seen and fired one therapist. Communication is not a strong suit for us.
We have several issues, but the biggie for me is a lack of emotional affection, attraction, intimacy. We live like roommates. We do get along, but that extra something just isn't there. It's like we live together to pay bills and parent our DD, and go through the daily grind of life, but that's it.
I've tried things over the past few months to try to get some affection in our marriage, but none of it has worked, I feel like the things I've tried have gone unnoticed, and I did tell him this...so I have felt myself slipping further and further away.
I've realized that H is the same he was 9 years ago when we met. He hasn't changed a bit. I have. I need affection, I need a hug once in a while, I need someone who shows me I'm needed, wanted, loved, sexy even.
Last night I basically told him that I feel like I'm done trying, and we're headed for divorce, because I cannot live like this. Throughout the conversation, I really did try to put the blame on me and the fact that I've changed and my needs have changed. He had a hard time understanding that. He said that he doesn't get how I've changed. He doesn't get how I can't accept him not being a very affectionat loving person because that's how he's always been.
The part that's really bugging me...He said he feels like he's in an ultimatum type situation, either change to make me happy, or get divorced. I didn't know what to say because I don't want him to feel like I'm giving him an ultimatum at all, but at the same time I can see how he feels that way about things, and I feel terrible for that.
I guess what it comes down to, is even though I feel like I do want to work on things right now, at the same time I don't want him to just change out of fear of divorce, I want him to want to change (cliche I know). If he gives me a hug because I tell him that's what I need, I don't want it to feel forced.
I don't know what to think right now. I find I'm feeling more confused than ever. Of course I'll give the relationship more time, especially since our discussion. And we have decided that we're going to try a weekend retreat to see if that helps. I guess in my mind if I try that and it still doesn't work I can walk away saying I tried.
Re: I finally spoke with my H - advice?
Well and I kind of felt that way too. I'm not asking for the moon here.
I understand that affection is hard for him, but like I said, I don't feel like I'm asking for anything outrageous. Yes, it's a change for him, but it's not one that would literally change who he is as a person to his core.
Even if he did make a 180 degree change, it will not be sustainable. He is not an affectionate person, period. Nothing wrong with that per se, and there's nothing wrong with you wanting someone who is.
If you feel the need to keep trying, then so be it, but I don't see how you're gonna get to where you want to be.
The fact that your DH can't/won't do this... Sure, I can say I see his side - this is who you married and you went into it w/ eyes open. But still. You want more now and the fact that he hides behind "but this is who I am" w/o really seeming to even want to try to change.... eh, not impressed.
Which I think lines me up w/ Bowies - even if he does a 180, it's not going to last.
~Benjamin Franklin
DS dx with celiac disease 5/28/10
Well honestly. How hard could this be?
I'm going to play devil's advocate.
I want to start out by saying that I don't think you should stay in this relationship if you know you want something else and have for a while. I think you need to work on yourself and decide what the best path for you would be and persue it, not stay in a marriage for the sake of "not getting a divorce".
My question is: in your last thread you said something about how you "give in" once every few weeks. This tells me that your husband is persuing intimacy with you and you're consistently rejecting him. How long was that going on before you started asking him to hug you? Maybe he's not an overly affectionate person and yeah, he's hiding behind that, I just feel for him. It wouldn't be easy to start hugging someone who had brushed off advances in the past (or possibly "innocent" affection under the assumption that you were trying to start something).
Just a thought... but I still think you're persuing the right path with the individual therapist and the end of the relationship.
Coming from my own personal experience, there is such a thing as sex without intimacy.
Well, you kind of are giving him an ultimatum, but that's beside the point.
You know that he's not going to change, right? You can't change him. You can only control yourself, which means you can accept him how he is or you can make changes in your own life.
It's okay that you have changed over the past 9 years. It's okay to want/need different things than before. Really. There is nothing wrong with any of this. It is what it is and that's life.
Most of the time when he initiates, we do have sex - he will initiate about every 2 weeks. When I say I give in to it, I guess I mean that I don't necessarily want to have sex, but I do it anyway. I will own up and say I never initiate. I think H's idea of intimacy is through sex, and nothing else. Even when we have sex, we don't even kiss, it's almost kind of impersonal, it's boring same thing every time type of routine. And yes, I've told him this.
When I said I've tried, here's an example. 2 weeks ago I walked up to him to give him a hug. Yes, he had his arms crossed in front of him when I did that, but while I was hugging him, he continued to keep his arms crossed. When we kiss hello, goodbye, goodnight...it's me kissing him - he doesn't initiate that. I feel like I'm trying to do these little types of intimate things, but they're going unnoticed.
My therapist said something good that's stuck with me. She said women need a connection to have sex, where men need sex to have a connection. So true. And we've fallen into a cycle of no connection=no sex.
I think deep down I know he's not going to change, and I'm slowly coming to that realization. I told him right out it's not up to me for him to change, it's up to him. And he has to want to make the change. If he doesn't initiate it, it's not going to happen.
Some of the things he said last night made me feel bad or guilty for myself changing over the years. He flat out asked me why and how I've changed, and said that he doesn't get it. Sometimes I don't get it either. But one thing I do know, is I need a H that's going to show me some outward emotion. I need someone that's going to come up to me when I'm balling my eyes out and comfort me or even just ask if I'm OK (earlier this week I was crying getting frustrated about something with our DD, and he walked away to go play video games, and acted as though it never happened).
Yeah, if you've been going in for kisses and hugs and getting nothing in return then this is not at all like what I posted might be happening. This is a guy who isn't willing to return the affection you're giving and isn't willing to put in any effort. That's not fair to you at all.
I'd argue what your therapist told you, but I don't want to go off on a tangent.
I was also with a largely unemotional man, though he was able to give me some affection (holding hands, hugs). I wouldn't call any of it intimate though (no kissing, no cuddling). My situation was different from yours in some ways, but I can identify with feeling like sex was nothing more than a physical release for him. I spent years feeling more like an object than a person and it destroyed my self-esteem. I stayed far longer than I should have. He had never given me an indication that he would change, mainly because he was incapable of it.
ETA: He also shut down whenever I showed any emotion (such as crying, whether justified or not). He played video games while I cried about a m/c that had occurred a couple weeks prior. He dismissed it as "silly woman stuff".
At some point you have to recognize that you're beating your head against a wall. If you like the wall, fine, but it's a wall and will always be a wall.
You shouldn't feel guilty for wanting more for yourself.
I should say on his behalf that over the last month when I flat out told him I feel like he has to kiss me goodnight, he has been better about it, but there's still plenty of nights where either I roll over to give him a kiss, or we both go to sleep without one.
I feel like after our discussion last night, it was my 'last chance' type of thing. I've said a lot of this stuff over and over, but I've decided for myself, this was my final time saying it. I've said it. He knows how I feel. What he decides to do with it is up to him.
At this point I can't say I haven't tried, which is something I need for myself if we divorce. This, in a way, is my last try, my "I'm haging on for dear life and I need to try this one last time, just to be sure" type of thing.
Jesus, I could have written this word-for-word a few years ago. It's how I justified staying for so long.
Don't do this to yourself.
i think from other conversations you know my opinions on the topic.
i am shocked to see his reaction to the conversation. I think it's indicative that he's not very interested in changing. The fact that he can't understand why you have changed??? People change, their needs change, what they want out life changes as they get older, have more experiences, etc. Maybe he doesn't want to adapt to the new you, and if that is his choice, then that is his loss.
Like Brownies, I felt like an object when it came to sex with my XH. I felt like he wanted sex for his own release, not to show love, affection, any kind of connection with me. Not even for my enjoyment either. For a long time I had no connection of sex and emotions...but with FI, I've seen and felt the difference when sex has that emotional connection aspect to it.
I never wanted to kiss XH, he wasn't good at it, he wasn't good at a lot of things in the sex area either, even when i'd give him guidance about what i wanted. he just wanted to do things his way. I didn't want to cuddle with him or anything, i had lost any emotional connection i might have had with him and it was never coming back.
there should be emotion, this is the person you married, this is the person who is supposed to be the love of your life. If you are that person for him, you'd think he'd want to show you that affection since you would mean so much to him.
his reaction and demeanor seem much like my XH's in that he's just content the way things are and doesn't see the need to change for him to be content. It shouldn't have come as a surprise to him, as you have mentioned it to him before.
I don't see the harm in trying the retreat, but your last comment, about not even wanting to kiss him would make it hard to go into the retreat giving it 100% rather than "well i tried it" you can try it, but if you try it with out giving it everything you have, then there is no point. Can you say that if he all of a sudden became affectionate and attentive/caring, that your attraction to him would return and you would want that affection and in turn sex?
Thanks. I'm hoping that at least through therapy if we divorce I can be at peace with my decision. In a lot of ways that's how I feel about going through everything I'm going through, instead of just throwing in the towel. I need to be able to say I tried and that I am 100% sure in my decision to leave. I'm not 100% yet. Everyone says when you're ready you know, to your very core, without a doubt you're done. I can't say I'm there yet completely. In some ways I feel like I'm sitting back waiting for that to happen.
A few things.
I think you need intense marriage counseling to give this relationship even a fighting chance of survival. And perhaps he should get individual counseling as well.
About changing, I don't think asking someone to give a little more affection is asking them to change. So instead of using that word, how about asking for improvement. Sure, it's unfair to ask him to change after 9 years, but I don't think it's too much to ask for him to improve. He's not going to change. He's not going to become this guy who's always trying to hug and kiss you. But you don't need that. What you need is the occasional act of affection and love. He needs to figure out WHY he can't give that to you, even though it's something you have asked for and need. And why can't he freakin' open his arms to let you hug him when you obviously need that?
I do think you should try initiating sex a little more often. It sounds like you're in the cyle that was referenced by another poster about you wanting intimacy before you'll have sex, and your husband wants sex to show his intimacy.
But, I think marriage counseling with a good counselor is going to be necessary to have a shot.
This problem goes way way deeper than sex and attraction. I can't imagine seeing someone that I even slightly care about bawling and not reacting to it.
Is there any intimacy at all your marriage?
Listen to Bowies. Don't do this to yourself.
He sounds like he is pretty selfish. You are not asking for anything remotely unreasonable---you deserve affection and love from your husband just like every other wife on the planet. People like him just should not be married. The whole point on marriage is to have intimacy, physical and emotional. If he is unwilling or unable to provide it, he should not be in an intimate relationship. My husband and I are in a similar situation right now but I finally just gave up and was ready to file for divorce. One day he had lunch with my FIL, and ever since that day he's been much better. Don't know what FIL said, but it obviously had an impact---and I don't even get along with my in-laws, go figure!
I feel like I just turned 35 and if I ever want to meet someone else, then now is the time. We all deserve someone who we can be intimate with. That's the whole point of marriage, isn't it? Otherwise, you can always just be single and hook up when you need some instant gratification now and then.