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Please help - our dog bit DH
I apologize in advance because I think this might get long. Backstory: We adopted our dog from a rescue when he was 9 weeks old. They said he was a beagle/lab mix. We figured that at 9 weeks he couldn't have developed too many issues...we were wrong. After we brought him home we found out his mom was a beagle/whippet and the father was unknown - I don't think this little guy has much lab in him though. She had been abused and then dumped at a shelter in NC with her 5 puppies. They were then transported to PA together and shuffled between a few foster homes. We stayed in touch with the foster mom and heard about the other puppies. All had anxiety/aggressive issues. A brother and the sister were adopted together and happen to use the same daycare we do. The owner said the boy was the most aggressive puppy he had ever worked with.
Our dog has had anxiety issues since we brought him home. 95% of the time he is the sweetest, most loving dog. He knows his commands very well, but then a switch is flipped and he goes crazy barking and lunging at us. No amount of commands, treats, clickers, etc can distract him until he calms down. We know many of his triggers so we have done our best avoid those things, but I don't think that really fixes the problem. We take away toys that he gets most possessive of. He has to sit (and usually shake or do something else) before going outside, eating or getting a treat.
We have worked with 3 different trainers and recently brought in a behaviorist. I was a little disappointed that the only solution she offered was clicker training. He'll respond to clickers and treats all day long when he is calm, but they are no match for his tantrums. We have tried every collar there is. He has been on Clomicalm for probably 2 years and that does help with some things, but doesn't do enough. Before that he was on Prozac - didn't do anything. We have also used DAP diffusers, Rescue Remedy, and the Thundershirt.
Our twin girls are now 7 months old and I was terrified of how he would be when we brought them home. He has totally shocked me and been great with them, but they are getting more grabby and will soon be more mobile so I'm not sure what's going to happen.
So now to the biting. He attacked our neighbor about 2 years ago. I was talking to him in the street on the other side of the invisible fence. The dog was barking at us, but all of a sudden came charging through the fence and knocked over the neighbor. Thankfully it was just a small cut on his hand and he didn't report it, but he has never been outside since without a leash or attached to a lead. He has lunged at me on several occasions and just nipped my feet a few times. He has bitten DH several times before, but yesterday was the worst. One of the twins was in the jumperoo and I think that is what set him off. When DH got close to him he went crazy and bit his arm.
I have lurked here since we got the dog and got some great tips from all of you. One was to have his thryoid tested which we did a while back. He came in at the low end of normal so the vet wouldn't treat him, but based on the research I have seen dogs can benefit from treatment. At the time I felt like I couldn't argue with my vet and say that reading a few articles on the internet made me more qualified than her. I plan to call the vet tomorrow and see if we can rule out anything else medically related.
DH is deadset on getting rid of the dog now. We have both been crying for 2 days about it. I feel like we have failed him. He gets endless love and attention, but it's not enough. We worked very hard to keep his routine the same when the girls arrived and to make sure he got attention. Since he was so good with him, he has been in their room with us for feedings and playtime so he hasn't been neglected.
Is there anything you can think of that we haven't done? I'm willing to try almost anything. I'm pretty sure there are other things we have done that I haven't listed here too. Getting rid of him or, even worse, putting him down, are an absolute last resort, but I could never forgive myself if he hurt one of the girls or anyone else for that matter. I keep trying to figure out what more we could do to help him. I love this dog more than anything and I'm crying as I type this, but I don't know what to do. Please let me know if you have any suggestions that could help. Thank you!
Re: Please help - our dog bit DH
When I was a kid, my parent's dog had some similar issues. I was too young to know all the details, but I remember my parents actually had a behaviorist come to the house. I'm not sure if this is something that you could financially swing, but maybe the behaviorist (or therapist, I think that's the title the woman had) could actually catch the dog in action to see what triggers the issues? I rember after the woman came to our house a couple of times, we actually brought the dog to bi weekly counseling sessions. (I was about 10, so I really don't know what was done at counseling, I only went once or twice w/ my parents) but they did counseling w/ the dog for a while. It seemed to help.
I would suggest looking into that, and definately talking to the vet. Don't quote me on this, but I vaguely remember a while back someone mentioning their dog would get agressive at random times and they learned it was some medical issue. Maybe something to do with diabetes? Honestly I don't remember it was a while back.
I volunteer at a no kill shelter, and if a family like yours dropped off the dog due to aggression, it would get tested by our staff, and then hopefully adopted out with the stipulation of no other kids/dogs. It's a last resort as you obviously seem devoted to this dog and doing whatever you can to help, but you never want to put your children's safety at risk if he starts to get worse.
Good luck.
I would recommend a second behaviorist and another trip to the vet. If you don't agree with what your vet thinks, you have the right to get a second opinion from another one.
how much exercise is your dog getting? I would increase it as much as possible and step up the NILIF - google it if you don't know what it is.
as far as giving the dog up, I doubt you will be able to give him to a shelter or rescue with his known aggression and now bite history. It would be a huge liability to you and the rescue to adopt out a dog with a known bite history if the dog were to seriously injure someone. If you feel you have done all you think you can, sadly, I think the best decision may be to humanely euthanize him with you at his side. Sometimes the demons are too hard to overcome.
I'm sorry you are dealing with this. It sounds like you have done a lot to help him.
Wow, I'm so sorry that happened and I really commend you for all the work you have done thus far with your dog. Many people would not have. Others will almost certainly have more advice, but I would talk to the vet about your concern regarding his thyroid and possibly other meds. You've tried two, but I think there might be a few out there and maybe the dosage isn't right for him. You also might want to try another behaviorist. It sounds like things have gotten work since your last attempt and you said you weren't thrilled with their suggestions. Sometimes people have to go through a few before one "clicks."
If these things do not work I would honestly consider putting him to sleep before rehoming or sending him to a shelter. Many shelters will euthanize him based on his bite history and that is so much worse than going with the people he loves (and that love him). And rehoming is a lawsuit waiting to happen if he hurts someone else.
Thank you so much for your responses. I can't believe we actually got to this point. Seeing DH cry is breaking my heart even more.
I am going to call our vet and also see about a second opinion. I'm also going to email the doctor at Hemopet who does a lot of research on the thyroid issue and see if she can help as well.
As far as exercise goes, I know he doesn't get enough. He is terrible on walks if he passes other people or dogs - barking, lunging, hackles up, total freak out. He is perfect if we don't see other people, but that's rare in our neighborhood. I'm sure the whole neighborhood hears his barking and it sounds like he is being attacked. I can't take him to the park or on a trail because he freaks at everyone there. He loves going for walks, but because of his behavior I don't do it as much as he needs. We do play a lot of ball with him in the house and yard though. He also goes to daycare usually once a week.
Of course when the behaviorist was here, he was on perfect behavior (aside from his inability to greet people at the door politely...that's a whole other issue I didn't mention). I think it would help to have her or her colleague come out again and see how he goes ballistic when he sees dogs out the window or on tv or his response to the girls' toys. The clicker doesn't stand a chance then.
As far as rehoming him, I know we would have issues because of his history. One of his trainers loved him and told us at the time if we ever gave him up he would take him. I never dreamed that we might have to take him up on it. He already had 9 dogs of his own at the time and runs a training/boarding facility so he would probably be very happy there. I can't even stand to think about euthanizing him. He's not even 4.
Thanks again for your help. I hope we can find a solution soon.
I think, worst comes to worst, this is reassuring. Discuss things with him like what if the dog never changes, what is his plan? Is he taking the dog only because he knows there will be difficulties rehoming the dog, and this is a desperate attempt to prevent euthanasia? What is this man's experience with aggressive/anxious dogs? These are very hard questions, but need to be considered. Hopefuuly he has the right answers, that he has successful experience with making dogs behave well, that he will work with the dog no matter how difficult, that he will keep you informed. If the dog was on good behavior for this man, then maybe he is the right person for the dog. Since he has nine dogs, I am assuming he has a kennel license and lots of property. For some dogs, you need the exercise them a TON in order for them to be calm enough to train, and maybe he has the resources to do this.
I am not condoning giving away a dog. But I think this is reassuring, especially because you have the safety of your children to consider. (And your siggy is way too adorable btw!)
It is definitely reassuring to know that we have a possible home for him. He went to this trainer when he was about 6 months old and then continued to board and go to daycare for a while. He no longer offers daycare so we haven't been there in a while. When he offered to take him it was just because he really liked the dog - not because there were any plans to rehome him. His issues definitely got worse over time.
I know he has experience with dogs like ours. He also trained the brother I mentioned that he goes to daycare with now. I would make sure he wouldn't just be crated in the boarding area and that he would continue to work with him. I'm even willing to contribute to his care and I hope I would be able to visit him.
Thanks so much for all of your help. This is absolutely killing me and I don't how I'm going to get this week as we try to get him some more help.
You said he flips out when he sees other dogs on walks. Is it a dog-aggression thing, or a barrier reactivity thing?
I agree with PP's, you've done a lot more than most would have for your dog. I think a second opinion from another vet, another behaviorist, or a veterinary behaviorist, and/or a new medication would be my next steps.
And I understand that it seems unthinkable to euthanize a dog so young. I had a foster dog who was fantastic with people. But he was too dog-aggressive to be adopted. It took me 5 months, four dog-attacks, and nearly $1,500 in emergency vet bills to make me see that he needed to be euthanized. He was probably about 5 years old.
I think it is a combo of his anxiety, leash aggression, and protectiveness. Off leash he is fine with dogs and people although his initial greeting can be a little anxious.
I already heard back from dr. Dodds about the thyroid testing so I'm going to try to get him retested this week. DH is taking him to daycare tomorrow and is going to talk more with the trainer there and then figure out the next step.
I'm sorry you went through all of that with your foster too.
He actually is fine at daycare and has been going since he was 6 months old. The owners split up at the original place so he goes to the other owner now. The staff knows him well and they would kick him out if there was ever a problem. He has never come home with even the slightest scratch on him and there has never been an incident there.
His behavior hasn't really escalated - it's been like this for a long time. The problem is that we feel that we have exhausted our options. We just kept giving him one more chance and we realize that it is a huge liability - physically, emotionally, and even financially.
I found two vet behaviorists in the area and I plan to call them today and see what we can set up.
Thanks for all of your replies.
Your dog sounds like my pup that I recently have given up. He was very shy, had a lot of anxiety and was not getting enough exercise. He loved playing with dogs, but was not comfortable interacting with people. He would lung and bark on walks to play with dogs and got anxious when we walked past people.
We also worked with several dog behaviorists and trainers and our vet. Nothing seemed to work for us because of our dog's personality and the situation in which we were living in. I had also gotten bit several tlimes by him.
If you are interested in finding a solution, I would say to keep trying different behaviorists. I have come to realize that everyone has a different attitude about dogs and how different fear/anxiety should be handled. You may also have the option of having anxiety meds for your dog, but it sounds like he might benefit best from getting more exercise and you enforcing NILF.
I understand how hard and stressful it can be living with a dog like this. We were unable to change our situation, so I decided with the help of several behaviorists and his breeder that it was best to return him to his breeder, where he could get plenty of exercise, dog on dog playtime and the ability to be worked with one on one without the constant distractions/triggers that we were encountering on a walk.
PM me if you'd like to discuss this more. *hug*
Thanks doglove! I got an appt for tonight to check his thyroid again with a new vet and they offer behavior consultations too. They also gave me two other recs already for vet behaviorists. I am praying he has a thyroid issue since it may actually be fixable. I may PM you later this week after we work through some of these solutions.
Im sorry you had to give up your dog. I can't imagine how hard that was.
I see that you are in the Philadelphia area - I HIGHLY recommend seeing Dr. Karen Overall (vet behaviorist). We took our dog to see her and she is wonderful. The evaluation is pricey, but she is very thorough and comes up with a full treatment plan (including meds, if necessary, as well as behavioral modification). She also follows up and will see you again, as many times as you need (you have to pay for additional visits, of course).
Karen Overall
MA, VMD, PhD, DACVB ABS Certified Applied Animal Behaviorists
10 County Lane
Glen Mills, PA 19342
office tel: 610.399.3009
office fax: 610.399.4860
kloverallvmd@gmail.com
www.k9behavioralgenetics.net
I provide legal consultations
I accept media inquiries
Thank you! I actually think I found her site last night. There is another one in Villanova too that I was reading about. The new vet just changed my appt tonight so I can see their behavior specialist so hopefully we are on the right path to finding the right treatment.
Yes, it was a very painful and difficult decision for us. It was the right choice though. We also tested for thyroid issues, but found none.
Please feel free to PM if you'd like.
Sorry to come into this so late, but I just saw your post and it sounds so much like my own dog's story that (if you're even still watching this post) I wanted to pass along my sympathy and let you know you're not alone. We finally decided to put our dog to sleep last month after spending 3.5 years trying to fight his demons (that made him only 4.5 years old
). It was by far the hardest decision we've ever had to make, but it was made slightly easier because he was in chronic physical pain after a freak accident happened around Thanksgiving last year.
It's hard to explain, but I actually feel bad for not having had the guts to put him to sleep earlier - it's like it was just too hard for me to justify putting down a physically perfectly healthy dog who was wonderful 95% of the time even though I knew the mental anxiety he was experiencing day in and day out for years must have been horrible to live with. In some ways, in cases like this I think people unintentionally do a disservice to you by saying try this or try that any maybe it'll work. I know there's tons of people who come on here and have no idea what they're doing and in those cases of course all sorts of things can and should be tried, but in this particular case, you've tried all sorts of behavioral modification, you've tried meds, you've educated yourself, you're in contact with the right experts, and there's very obviously a strong genetic component to it. As hard as I know it is to do, maybe it's time to accept that his mental demons just aren't fixable. I feel terrible saying that because I don't think I was able to do that with my own dog, but I do believe there are some dogs that just aren't fixable, and maybe the best advice we can give is to open your eyes to that possibility?
The other thing I wanted to mention is that we have a baby who's now 1.5 years old, and our dog also did a surprisingly good job of adjusting to his arrival. However, I would strongly recommend you keep your dog and babies totally off limits to one another - either with babies elevated when dog is around, or with babies & dog separated by gates - ALL THE TIME. I think it's similar to pp's suggestion of keeping your dog out of doggie daycare (which I agree with) - it's one thing for you and DH to accept the risk of living with an unpredictably aggressive dog, but you obviously don't want to put your kids or any other innocent bystanders at risk, and the only way to 100% guarantee no accidents will happen is to keep them separated. My dog actually seemed to prefer the gates anyway because he was able to watch us play without having to worry about the kid coming near him. We had one gate setup at the door to the nursery and a couple separating off his play area - I particularly liked the gate at the nursery door because in emergencies I never had to worry about the dog accidentally getting underfoot, getting spooked, guarding some random object I needed, etc. It's already chaotic enough with one baby, I can't even imagine two!
Last thing I promise - as hard as it was to put Stretch to sleep, a couple things have made it easier to deal with. First, seeing how relaxed he was after it was done - it made us realize how stressed out he had been when he was alive. Second, being able to let our son run around the house unrestricted without worrying about if (or more appropriately, when and how bad) he's going to be bitten. Third, having friends over without worrying about their safety. And fourth, being able to do all the little things we weren't able to do for years because they were sure to trigger an attack. If you do decide putting your dog to sleep is the best option, just try to keep those things in mind because thinking of all the things you'll gain makes it a lot easier to deal with the loss. I'm really sorry you're having to deal with this, and I hope whatever you decide things get better soon.