Decorating & Renovating
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About Toto Toilets...
Looks like you can't just pick them up at Home Depot / Lowes...if you bought one, did you order online (and if so from where) or go to a local store that carries them to check it out in person?
Did anyone have concerns about installing one in an older house (I saw a few scattered negative reviews that talk about "older plumbing" not being able to handle them.)
Thanks!
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Re: About Toto Toilets...
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Thanks, they do have a store locator, it seems to be a smaller design place that only has three in stock, so I was wondering if online might be just as good.
I've bought three of them online from homeclick.com. Great prices, free shipping. They all arrived intact with no problems (I ordered them as we went along the renovation so it was three separate orders.) I think they emailed me a 10% off coupon the other day I'll check.
ETA: they did email me a coupon, but it wasn't for plumbing. I'd just like to add that if it's possible to love a toilet I love my totos. As I said we ordered them as we went along. The last one to go in is our master bathroom. Since the first toto went in I haven't used the master bath toilet. I've walked across the house to one of the totos - even in the middle of the night. They're that awesome.
We bought ours at faucetdirect (price matched to some other websites I didn't trust as much online) but we saw some in person first at two local plumbing showrooms (they aren't nationwide or I'd recommend them). These weren't listed on Toto's website so you have hope! Call around and see what showrooms in your area carry or check out their websites. Ferguson in our area at least doesn't carry them because they have a big contract with Kohler and Kohler prohibits them from carrying Toto since they are a competitor. All 3 of the Ferguson showroom people said Toto is what they would or have bought for toilets though.
ETA: There is no reason old plumbing should be an issue. If you have no water flow/pressure at your toilet no toilet will work. All modern toilets will need a 1/2" cold water line and a 3" sanitary line that is vented.
I'm curious as to why Pam considers them overkill. There is a big difference between the commercial and residential toilets they sell. It's not like I have a commercial looking/sounding toilet in my house. What is overkill when it comes to toilets anyways? That they never clog or use a lot of forced water? Personally the last thing I want to worry about is my toilet. If it's clogged, finding replacement parts, or having to replace one. I'd rather just buy a good one now and never have to worry about it. Spend my time and money decorating the house instead.
There is really only a few things you need to see in person to decide. Do you want the G-max (same as E-max only that uses 1.28 gal) or the Dual Cyclone technology. Both are good. The G-max has been around the block longer but the dual cyclone is supposed to clean your bowl better. In the showroom you can look at how each performs. Take off the lids and compare the "innards" of the Toto to any other brand. I was impressed. That plus the recommendation to use them from pretty much ever pluming engineer I work with, ever plumber we know, and all of the plumbing show people I talked to made it a no-brainer for us. We have the G-max mainly because I fell in love with the look of the Lloyd...LOL yes I just thought it was the most craftsman Toto option. We've had it in for over a month now and let me tell you it's kind of freakin' amazing...for a toilet that is. We went from only having 7 gallon/flush toilets down to a 1.28 gal/flush and we were worried there would be a reduction in performance. Not one clog to date nor has there been *cough* skid marks left behind that needed to be cleaned. We have a lot of friends and family with low flow toilets (most with toilets that wouldn't meet today's 1.6 gal requirements) and I have never seen one as powerful as ours and we voluntarily went with a lower 1.28 gal one. No joke the first thing my Dad did when he saw our almost finished bathroom is go check out the toilet. He has had a massive amount of issues with his various low flows and they are mid-range Kohlers and American Standards.
Once you have that figured out you can start looking at the details. ADA height and elongated bowl is what most people prefer. If you have very short family members non-ADA might be preferred. Almost all of Toto's bowls are elongated and originally I thought I didn't want that because some elongated bowls look so huge and stick out so far. Well Toto is great because they have made the elongated bowl fit in the same footprint of a round bowl and it doesn't stick out like a some. That in addition to being able to use a Unifit adapter for different rough-in sizes makes them much more compact in a tight space...great for remodeling an old home. We ended up having to get a 10" Unifit rough-in and having bought a skirted toilet made it possible to use it (saving us a lot of time and money!). Here's an example of a Toto with the Unifit and a Kohler Cadet:
Note even without the 14" unifit the Toto still saves space compared to the Kohler and they both have an elongated bowl.
Don't get a dual flow. They sound like a great idea but they physically don't work well. There is a lot of design that goes into how the water flows in a toilet and there is no possibly way for both a low and higher flow to both work effectively if you are at a low flow setting already. The only dual flows that work very well are ones that are like 6 gal/ 3 gal. At 1.6 or 1.28 gallons there is very little water so there is really no need to go down to a 0.5 gal flush. Our plumbing department says they are the #1 most complained about and replaced plumbing fixture in green buildings...and we're talking about commercial products here so a totally different flushing mechanism than residential. We actually have one at work and you never want to use it for the #2 flow because it literally splashes water at you. No joke.
1 pieces are nice because there isn't that seam between the tank and the bottom. As crazy as it sounds it's easier to clean with the smooth curve there. Not a big deal but if you have strong preference either way go for it.
Skirted is nice not only for looks but for cleaning. Ours is skirted but the smooth skirt stops 5" or so up from the floor. No idea why but cleaning around looks easy. Plus like I said because we went with skirted we were able to compensate for a non-12" rough-in.
SanaGloss is supposed to be nice but there is barely any difference between Toto models. They all have a nice smooth finish (though not in the trap itself because that causes clogging...cheaper toilets do this because it cost less to finish all of the porcelain the same way but light things like toilet paper cling to smooth surfaces better because of capillary actions...just another way Toto rocks). According to some of the showroom people they will soon be getting rid of this feature and making it standard on all toilets. Our model didn't come with this option.
Then it just comes down to looks and price.
Like I said we love ours and will be buying two more as we finish the other two bathrooms.
HTH!
I don't personally have a Toto, but lots of our clients have selected Toto toilets and we specialized in renovations in old houses. We never had any call backs about the toilets being a problem.
I wonder if maybe this was more of an isse of some DIY plumbing which was not appropriate with an old house which was the real source of the problem?
I always had the plumbers purchase the fixtures and they used local plumbing distributors.
Hope it HELPS?!? You are amazing. I think you need some kind of tip jar or something, I always feel like I owe you $5 for the comprehensiveness of your responses. I hope someday you have a question I am able to answer in so much depth (it probably won't be about D&R, though!)
Tips can be sent to 234 Fox Street....LOL.
Well I wasn't sure if I would be around to respond yet tonight or tomorrow (might not have access to a computer all day) so I wanted to cover any questions you or others might have. It was all in my head waiting to be typed out.
One more feature I forgot in the first post...the soft close seat is genius. Just genius. Both the lid and the seat just need to be tipped and they slowly close with no slam. DH is especially smitten with it and promised to never again leave the seat up (it was very rare before but still)! It came standard on ours but you can upgrade any Toto to have it.
Oh and I forgot to add we have the Eco Lloyd. But we seriously considered the Soiree which is our next favorite and cheaper. I saw the Guinevere in the showroom and didn't like the side handle. Another one to consider is one of the many Drake models which are the most popular and economical. The Clayton is another one with a more classic/vintage look.
BTW did you see this rating chart by the king of toilets I posted late in the other toilet post? It doesn't have all of the Toto styles but all styles are comparable to the ones he has listed. The owner comments are a nice feature.
I agree. I think we all owe you!
Thanks all! Just to update, I bought the Toto Drake elongated (standard height) last night from homeclick.com. It was $278 total with the soft-close lid, and free shipping. Here was my reasoning:
1. Elongated -- I'll take your guys' word for it that it's more comfortable for the men. I measured and it's the exact same depth as our current round.
2. Standard height -- We have toddler, so I didn't want to go taller. Plus I'm only five feet zero inches, and I hate dangling feet in real handicap toilet stalls. I don't think ADA height is that tall, but whatever.
3. Drake -- I was lazy, it was cheap, it looked fine to me. :-) I like the idea of the one-part ones being easier to clean, but the look of some of them seemed a little odd.
4. Sanagloss, cotton white -- our current toilet actually works fine, but I think the enamel has worn away, leaving brown spots that just don't get clean. It seems iffy as to whether Sanagloss really helps, but it doesn't seem to hurt, and overall the toilet seemed very reasonably priced so I'll splurge a little on anything that means cleaning it less often. Cotton white seems to match most fixtures that I would consider buying when we ultimately renovate (e.g., Kohler tubs and sinks) so I went with that one. Seems like Colonial white is a grey-white that goes better with American Standard fixtures.
5. Homeclick.com -- I hadn't heard of them but it seems like a poster had several good experiences, and they were having a sale on Totos, and free shipping, so it seemed like a pretty good deal. Their on-site reviews talk about good experiences -- of course you don't know if they're censoring, but hopefully they'll work out okay.
Hope that info helps someone else!
I got my toto drake's from homeclick years ago. My next Toto will be dual flush. My sis has them and I love them.
So glad there is another Toto fan out there. I swear, I never knew I would love a toilet so much!!!