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Does adult partying trump children's bed times at the holidays?
So DH and I missed Easter with the fam this weekend, but that got us to talking about our last family get-together (Christmas), which was a bit of a debacle, and I was wondering what other people thought of this.
Last Christmas, DH and I had dinner with his dad's side of the family at his aunt's house, which included grandparents, his parents and their siblings, us, cousins, and cousins kids who are aged 3-7 ish.
Initially it was great - everyone was enjoying wine, and rather than a sit down dinner it was a kid of potluck buffet where we just nibbled and socialized, did the white elephant exchange, etc. I won't go into everything that went down hill, but one of the main things was that well past midnight, several of the people who were still going at the wine were making a TON of noise, to the point where the kids - particularly the youngest - couldn't get to sleep. As a result, their mothers were struggling with crying 3 year olds and it was pretty miserable for anyone with an (unintoxicated) brain to witness. Despite the fact that the noise was the contributing factor, my FIL pulls out his iPad and plugs in the speakers, and all the guys start singing along to iTunes at full volume. This went on for another half an hour or so before the tension was so bad in the house that we convinced inlaws that it was time to head home (unfortunately, we all rode over in the same car, so we couldn't leave sooner).
DH made the comment on the way back that it was getting a bit out of hand with the noise and the kids couldn't sleep, so we really felt it was time to go. My inlaws stated that the mothers were just "bad parents, " and that that's why the kids couldn't fall asleep in an unfamiliar, loud house, and that bringing your kids to a holiday get-together (mind you, this is a family gathering, not an office or neighborhood party), you should expect that sleep schedules should be off.
Now, I'm not a parent, but generally I think that adults should keep it to a dull roar if kids are in the mix, especially toddlers, and I was a miffed that MIL/FIL would think it's ok to keep the noise level at obnoxious well past midnight, though I kept my thoughts to myself. I am a little turned off that in a few years I could be labeled the "bad parent" who can't make her kid fall alseep with all the craziness going on.
What's the norm for your family? Do adults keep the frat party going past midnight because "it's the holidays" and so things should be more relaxed? Or do you keep it down a bit when their are little ones in the mix?
Re: Does adult partying trump children's bed times at the holidays?
Sure, the party keeps going. But on a different floor than where the kids (or anyone for that matter) are sleeping, and at a reasonable volume. This is just common curotsy. Something that is usually lacking when you're frat party drunk.
In the future, if I were the family with kids I'd be at a hotel from now on. But your inlaws were still obnoxious.
We generally have 2 types of gatherings at our place. 1. Drinking. 2. Non-Drinking.
Now that's not to say that NO alcohol is consumed in the non-drinking variety. But instead indicates it will NOT be flowing as freely because there will be kids at the gathering. We have had a few times where it is a little loud, a little late. But we do really try to stay away from the kids with the noise so they WILL stay asleep and we can relax and talk more freely.
If I know it is going to be a pretty good party and I'm making some of my "special punch" to serve, I tell people up front, don't bring the kids. This is an adult party and inappropriate behavior may be going on. (from a kid's point of view I mean)
I know that can be a hard separation of gatherings to keep to with some families. But maybe if a frank discussion of it were to take place in the planning phase of a gathering, a compromise on the rowdiness could be made BEFORE it's in the midst of too many glasses of wine!
Good luck!
Whose house it is trumps. End of story, if you have kids and don't like how the house is run, then get a hotel room.
So far, dd can sleep through things and we bring a sound machine when we stay at other houses. If it becomes an issue and we feel we need a quieter place to stay, we will get a hotel.
Ok- wait. 1- where were the kids in relation to the adults? 2- the kids - were they staying there overnight or were they local and going home that night?
I go in a few directions on this.
As a host- i do think your FIL is kind of douchey. If I want people w/ kids to come over, be comfortable, and be able to put their kids to sleep so that they can stay - I'm going to do my best to accomdate their kids. Will we be quiet? No. But I wouldn't be blasting music and screaming either.
He has to expect that if this is the environment he's going to create, parents may opt to not come over w/ their kids, or leave early.
As a parent - if I'm staying overnight, we bring DS's white noise fan to set up. It helps a TON. If we're not staying the night, I'd actually probably have left a LOT earlier! If I really felt we could get DS to sleep and take him w/ us later - maybe. But he's not easily transferable like that these days. Plus no matter how late we stay up, HE will still wake up early. So... that doesn't make staying up late all that enjoyable!
No matter what- if there isn't a good, relatively quiet place to put DS down, we'd leave before his bedtime anyhow. And if I was staying overnight there and this happened- I'd be sure to not stay there ever again.
Oh, and you can't "make" your kids do anything.. Yes, to a degree you can try and train them - we've taken DS out to many different environments, he's slept in other places, etc etc. So he is used to "new and different" on occasion. But at the same time - some kids are good sleepers and can sleep anywhere, others aren't. No matter what the parents try to "make" them do.
~Benjamin Franklin
DS dx with celiac disease 5/28/10
Drunk people are rarely good arbitrators of volume and acceptible sleep conditions. This isn't an issue of good sense or parenting evaluations. It's obvious that loud music and signing would wake a small child and the easiest way to shut-up complaining mother is to call her a "bad parent" - whether earned or not. This is why they should all bring their own cars and leave whenever they wish.
Obviously.
Yes, adults keep quiet when children are sleeping. Drunks, generally, do not.
I'm assuming from your post that all involved lived in the same town and planned to go home for the night. If so, then the parents need to leave the party at the appropriate time to get their kids home and to bed. Expecting drinking and partying adults to be quiet so the kids can sleep and allow their parents to stay longer at the party is not realistic. Separate cars are a must for families with small children who may need to leave a party earlier than others. Having kids means you may not be able to stay out as late to party as those without kids.
The parents with the small kids and DH and I were the only out of towners. Given the way the hostess (grandmother to the kids in question) was fussing at Her husband, it was clear that she had lobbied for the kids to spend the night with them instead of the staying at a hotel, and she was quite upset that the loud sing-a-longs from her male relatives were essentially negating the chance of this ever happening again.
DH and I, for the record, will be bringing our own car to the next event.
Again, drunk people - and all that.
Otherwise, it sounds very sad and pathetic - especially the 'fussing at' part.
Yes, the party keeps going for us. But the kids go to sleep and people are respectful enough to not get so loud, blast music, etc.
The scenario you described would not be okay with me, and I'm totally laid back. I would just hope people would be more respectful.
Oh, I will agree with this! I was thinking of it as being MY house. If it was someone else's house, tough luck. Get a hotel room and leave early.
I cannot imagine being a child in this scenario because it never once happened. I do know the men in my family would drink their crown/soda in moderation but never once witnessed drunken parents as a child. We always went home at a respectable time with a sober parent driving (though we were all local).
On the contrary H grew up with a loud, drunk, Italian family and I was appalled at the first Christmas where I witnessed this, especially where they let underage people drink freely. He also is judgmental on this in his family, particularly of those with small children who keep them out late.
And although I dont plan to have children, if I changed ever my mind, there is no way I would put my kids thru trying to sleep through a bunch of drunk, loud adults. I do not agree things should be "more relaxed because its the holidays" with partying going on past midnight if the children cannot sleep with the noise.
Edited: I do agree with pp, if its not your house, you have no say so you should make arrangements to leave/stay in a hotel.
why didn't the parents with the kids who couldn't sleep leave? or ask the ones making a lot of noise to quiet down?
did i miss something?
~Benjamin Franklin
DS dx with celiac disease 5/28/10
This, then, sounds like an issue between MIL and FIL. They need to work it out. It is their house and they have different views.
thanks ECB. i guess i missed the staying over part.
but i agree about who;s house it is makes the rules. just seems like it totally went off the rails though.
Neither of these options trumps the other. This is a situation I've dealt with as a parent visiting other places and as a hostess quite a few times, and it's one where some compromise and flexibility is called on from all parties.
I think that if you invite a family with children to stay at your home, then the children are guests just as much as their parents are. The adults should keep the volume down to a reasonable level so that the kids can get to sleep. Sometimes it's hard for people other than the parents to understand that the "going to sleep" process is different for a small kid. Little ones depend greatly on routine, and going to sleep in an unfamiliar place can be tough for them even if it's not noisy.
On the other hand, parents can't expect the entire household to be silent just because the kids are being put down for the night. Parents need to come prepared with whatever tools and tricks will work best for helping their kids drift off. If you know your kid is going through a super-sensitive stage about going to sleep, don't plan on an overnight stay at someone else's house.
Technically, the host(ess) makes the rules. If I don't like it, I leave.
Of course I would hope that they would be considerate of any guests staying overnight who have no choice other than to be there with tired, cranky children. If I had a relative I knew might not be that considerate, I'd arranged to stay elsewhere with my kids and just leave at bedtime. Heck, when we stay at my ILs and they have dinner at 1AM on Easter morning (tradition is to break their Holy Week fast after church) I usually go stay at my SILs for the night so the kids can sleep, and my ILs are definitely trying to be considerate of my kids and their schedule. My girls are just light sleepers, and it's hard to ask 6-8 hungry people to avoid speaking above a whisper or banging any dishes when they're having a full on meal one floor below.
As a parent, that would be the last time that I agreed to stay the holiday at grandma's. Their house, their rules, but I get to choose where I (and my kids) spend the night.
If that meant I left the party at 7 pm in order to be home, or rented a hotel room down the road, or only joined them on holidays where there was no drinking, that would be a conseqence of the hosts choices, and I would not feel bad. I don't mind being called a "party pooper."
This sounds like a party we attended last Christmas as well; we were invited to spend the night because we traveled 4 1/2 hours to get there and they live in a SUPER rural area. When the tv got ripped off the wall that was my cue to get my nephew and leave. It took us 45 minutes to get to the nearest hotel which was the opposite direction we needed to travel, but we got out.
They were smoking in the house, the little girl with asthma was sucking down her inhaler but everyone was too drunk to care. That was the first (and last) interaction I had with my sister's in-laws.
I agree. I don't believe that children get to dictate bedtimes, activities, etc., at get-togethers.
I think what made this awkward was that the hosts themselves hadn't agreed on what kind of gathering they wanted to have, and the conflict affected the guests. Grandma wanted to have the grandkids spend the night, grandpa wanted a rip-roaring loud time. If they had agreed and everyone coming had known the score, the guests could have made informed decisions on how long to stay at the party and where to spend the night.