Our tech team has launched updates to The Nest today. As a result of these updates, members of the Nest Community will need to change their password in order to continue participating in the community. In addition, The Nest community member's avatars will be replaced with generic default avatars. If you wish to revert to your original avatar, you will need to re-upload it via The Nest.
If you have questions about this, please email help@theknot.com.
Thank you.
Note: This only affects The Nest's community members and will not affect members on The Bump or The Knot.
Number of Gifted Kindergarteners Soars
After Number of Gifted Soars, a Fight for Kindergarten Slots
By ANNA M. PHILLIPSPublished: April 13, 2012
Nearly 5,000 children qualified for gifted and talented kindergarten seats in New York City public schools in the fall, 22 percent more than last year and more than double the number four years ago, setting off a fierce competition for the most sought-after programs in the system.
Andrea Mohin/The New York Times
Suzanne Rheault?s tutoring company helps children with kindergarten admissions tests.
On their face, the results, released on Friday by the Education Department, paint a portrait of a city in which some neighborhoods appear to be entirely above average. In Districts 2 and 3, which encompass most of Manhattan below 110th Street, more students scored at or above the 90th percentile on the entrance exam, the cutoff point, than scored below it.
But experts pointed to several possible reasons for the large increase. For one, more middle-class and wealthy parents are staying in the city and choosing to send their children to public schools, rather than moving to the suburbs or pursuing increasingly expensive private schools. And the switch to a test-based admissions system four years ago has given rise to test-preparation services, from booklets costing a few dollars to courses costing hundreds or more, raising concerns that the test?s results were being skewed.
Robin Aronow, an admissions consultant in Manhattan, said she could not attribute all of the increase to test preparation, ?but it certainly seems to be having an influence.?
?There are more and more people who are putting their kids through some sort of test preparation, whether it?s buying the materials or using the test-prep companies,? she said. ?I think the nursery schools have begun to integrate some of the materials into their classes as well.?
She added, ?I also know people who have paid for test prep, and some of their kids did wonderfully and some did poorly.?
In 2010, Education Department officials acknowledged that the practice might be influencing the results and ordered a new form of testing, to take effect next year. In a statement on Friday, a department spokesman, Frank Thomas, did not address test preparation but attributed the rise in high scorers to the increased popularity of public schooling.
?We are pleased to see more New York City children qualifying for gifted and talented programs than ever before, a sign that more and more families are interested in sending their children to public schools,? Mr. Thomas said. ?We are always strengthening our tests to make sure they continue to provide an accurate reflection of the work our students are doing.?
Of the children who scored high enough on the entrance exam to be eligible for a gifted program, more than half ? 2,656 ? qualified for the five most selective schools by scoring at or above the 97th percentile. But those schools ? three in Manhattan and one each in Brooklyn and Queens ? have only about 400 kindergarten seats. The rest of the 4,912 children qualified for one of the dozens of gifted programs spread throughout the five boroughs. The department said it would not know for several weeks how many seats would be available for those students, and some parents ultimately elect to send their children to regular classes in their neighborhood schools, but in years past many who have sought gifted placement have been shut out.
Gifted programs generally offer an accelerated curriculum, as well as the opportunity to be around other high-performing children. The city did not provide a racial breakdown of students who qualified, but as in years past, the more affluent districts ? 2 and 3 in Manhattan, in neighborhoods west and south of Prospect Park in Brooklyn, and in northeastern Queens ? had the most students qualify. In District 2, 949 children qualified for a gifted program, far more than in any other district. In District 3, 505 children qualified. By contrast, in District 7, in the South Bronx, only six children qualified for gifted placements and none for the five most exclusive schools.
At one of those schools, the Anderson School on the Upper West Side, only parents whose children scored in the 99th percentile are invited to open houses. One parent, Kevin Wardally, has his sights set on Anderson for his son, Emerson, who scored in the 99th percentile, but with so many high scorers this year, Mr. Wardally is not sure Emerson will get in. Schools with more qualifying applicants than seats generally choose students by lottery.
Continued
Re: Number of Gifted Kindergarteners Soars
how can so many kids be scoring in the 90+%. Shouldn't they change the test so only the 10% of test takers are actually considered gifted compared to the pool of applicants?
Above Us Only Sky
My guess is they use stanines they convert into estimated percentiles....which annoys me to no end. Misuse of percentages are a pet peeve of mine. It's like on the bump when people think their kid is over 100% in height.
And now we have too many parents thinking their kids are special snow flakes lol.
Oh, FFS. Smart = gifted. That's a stupid way to qualify kids. And I say this as a person who was classified G&T based on the Stanford test. I am smart, yes, and I have highly educated parents so I did well on verbal exams, but I'm not gifted. Gifted is supposed to be for kids who think in a different way, a more creative and abstract thinker who benefits from a modified way of teaching and exposure to different abstract puzzles, etc.
NOT, my parents are highly educated and gave me 4-year-old test prep material. Dumb.
I can't find the article and I cant remember if it was 1 article or 2 article but I read these two things in the NYTs.
1) there was a story about a boy who was in one of the gifted program in NYC public schools. He had tested well, etc. Well he was always told he was smart, but by 4th grade he was struggling in school because basically he was lazy. He was rewarded for being smart, not trying hard.
2) the other thing I read was about the headmaster at Riverside and his observation and change in admissions because the kids who did the best in school weren't necessarily the ones with highest scores but with the most perserverence and you can actually test perserverence and you can't really do test prep to see if a kid has that inate trate.
Above Us Only Sky
I agree and that was what the headmaster of riverside was saying in the NYT article and Riverside is one of the highly selective NYC private schools so I thought it was sort of interesting.
Above Us Only Sky
I agree with this.
I did a shi!t ton of tests by John Hopkins growing up and finally got put into a Gifted student program after 6 years and it was radically different than most classrooms. As a part of my participation I made regular trips with the rest of my class to the university to be tested and monitored. Past the first few years they stopped being just your standard "education" tests and were organized differently and looking back, pretty clearly trying to test which kids were more likely to be self-starters, independent, and had unique learning styles that thrived under challenges. There's a lot more than just book smarts that goes into that kind of education and this kind of thing is actually a dis service to be handing out like candy and not reserving for the few that actually could benefit. It has way more to do with the inherent nature of the kid than anything they could study for a test for.
Ditto, as well.
I was placed in a G&T program in the 2nd grade and stayed in them through the 8th, and the one day a week we got to spend in that classroom was heaven compared to the regular classrooms. It was very much a self-starter / independent / unique learners kind of classroom, with lots of problem solving exercises, both on paper and in the classroom. My brother placed into the classes as well, and, trust me, it's not because he's "book smart."
"You don't get to be all puke-face about your kid shooting your undead baby daddy when all you had to do was KEEP HIM IN THE FLUCKING HOUSE, LORI!" - doctorwho
I went to a Catholic school (one that was pretty poor), so we didn't have a specific G&T program. Over the years, though, the school would do various programs before/after school and during class for kids that tested a certain way. I know for sure that most of the time, the test scores were combined w/ other things to determine who was eligible.
I think one year we did stuff with a local public school's program... maybe a few years, early on? But the G&T program at the local public school was probably crappier than my Catholic school's regular curriculum b/c the public schools in that district are pretty awful - probably why there are 4 thriving Catholic grade schools in a small(ish) town, lol.
I just asked my husband b/c he was in the G&T program at a public school in one of the top districts in our state. He said he didn't know, but it was probably just a test, like an IQ test. Then he said he probably just got in because both his brother and sister were in it, so they thought he was smart too. I told him that was the dumbest thing I've ever heard...he's talking out of his ass.
I caught the last part of Nightline last night, and these kindergarten tests, particularly the test prep, was the subject. This one mother was in tears because her little 4-year-old "bombed" her last practice test and so she decided not to do the test at all.
If you want to watch it: http://abcnews.go.com/watch/nightline/SH5584743/VD55192262/nightline-413-cramming-for-gifted-kindergarten-test
that is totally my district's winter school wide writing prompt - except it's a magic sled.
the special education students really struggle with it. We are allowed to brainstorm verbally before they write, and even just talking with no pressure to write (which is often where their disability lies), they give me 'I would ride it" "I would ride it down a big hill" "I would go fast" They imagine nothing that a magic sled could do that a regular sled can't. Grades 1-4
So, I can't speak to it being a good measure for G&T - but maybe as a start down the path to SPED referral...
I find that delightfully pragmatic. They're probably suspicious that you'll think they're morons if they say anything other than what sleds essentially do. I mean really, even if it flies, you're still riding it, no? Then whatever you do next has nothing to do with the sled itself, so why not just drive there?
The correct answer is, of course, sell that f'er for merry buckets of cash and buy an Xbox. And some swagalicious Nikes. (I learned that from a 12 year old, btw. It's my new go-to hot word.)
I don't know if any of you have read the book Nurture Shock (you should!) but it has a chapter on gifted-ness.
One of the big problems it talks about is that Kindy G&T results do not hold for later elementary school, let alone past that. Yet, if a kid gets in the G&T program in kindy/1st, they often stay in it and never get kicked out.
It was fascinating.
I have no experience with G&T, just with friends who were in the programs, but they were smart kids who ended up going to good high schools.
I always thought they were supposed to supplement academic rigor and prevent smart kids from being bored too often. Is that not the case? I've never heard anything about this being for creative thinkers.
I think *modern* G&T education is about exploring the creative side vs. strictly accelerating a child. Lots of creative problem solving, etc. DS gets a lot of logic games as part of his math plan (gifted is considered part of sped in TN). Even though he knows how to multiply/divide/add/subtract the school isn't running with it... more about algebraic thinking.
Above Us Only Sky
We had DS tested for G&T at the end of 1st grade (he is in 3rd grade now) after his teacher noticed some of the ways he was thinking and playing. They did an IQ type test and also a test with a psychologist that just asked him questions and mostly observed his personality.
He is definitely book smart, but it is more the way he looks at things. He goes much further into whatever he is learning than the surface, if that makes sense.
I also have an older DD who is book smart when she wants to be, but the way she looks at things is opposite of DS.
Because you can study for IQ tests. The tests are not to be taken within twelve months of the last test because the practice effect increases the score. So obviously if you're practicing you can boost your score.
Yes, they supplement rather than accelerate, they're not academically rigorous, they're just fun to appease the parents, and keep the kids from being bored one afternoon a week.
Yes, that's why they need to be challenged, so they can learn perseverance and how to try hard. The normal kids will learn that in normal classes, smart kids need work that's harder so they learn how to work instead of cruising.
I find this fascinating, in comparison to the article earlier this week that something like 30% of kids aren't "ready" for kinder.
Is this the rich getting richer while the poor get poorer?
I am the 99%.
Anything you can achieve through hard work, you could also just buy.
In fl its determined by 1q tests only. they basically only let those with iqs above 130 in the program, with a few rare exceptios for the underprivledged who score between 120-129 so they accept them in the program assuming lack of income causes some of the iq questions to be unfair to those students casuing the lower scores
The test used for determining G&T status is available online for sale in the exact version that is used for this screening. Everyone I know who has children entering kindergarten bought the test and had their children learn the correct answers.
The newer version of the test will be out next year; I am willing to wager Mitt Romney's $10,000 that there will be a lot fewer gifted Kindergarteners next year.
It is considered standard practice in my social circle to buy the test and have your kids prepped if they are going to public school. It's no accident all the Manhattan kiddos are G&T.
This is evidently a lot different than the programs run in my public school growing up which were set but IQ mostly. They were special education Ed programs.
Kids were usually assigned in 2nd or 3rd grade. I participated and I don't know how much it helped me academically, but it did help me socially.