Your Daily "WTF, USA"

wise_rita

American mom living in Isreal does IVF, gives birth to twins.  America refuses to give the kids citizenship unless mom can prove the sperm and/or egg donor are American citizens.

Story here. 

WTMF.  How is it the governments business what egg or sperm created these kids?  If the mom adopted a kid they wouldn't be pulling this crap.

Everyday.  Every single day my country spews some crap that makes me shake my head in disgust.

wise_rita

So I can assume on the "American citizens born abroad" paperwork it asks Was this child concieved with the sperm or egg of the American parent?

God help me if I need an egg donor, that child will be just another dirty foreigner and not entitled to the preshush gift of American citizenship.

 

kelly321

wise_rita:

So I can assume on the "American citizens born abroad" paperwork it asks Was this child concieved with the sperm or egg of the American parent?

God help me if I need an egg donor, that child will be just another dirty foreigner and not entitled to the preshush gift of American citizenship.

 

I certainly don't remember that question on the form :-) You have to show the birth certificate, but I would think that that lady would have been listed as the mother, right? I mean, if she's the legal mother and adopted children get citizenship because their legal parents are citizens even though there's no biological connection, then I just don't understand how that wouldn't be the case with IVF babies.

myblueangel19

wow. I thought that if one parent was American, that was enough to get citizenship. I am pretty sure I can register any future hypothetical children with the embassy and they get citizenship through me, no? What is the difference if the woman's sperm donor isn't american?

ukyankee

Similar loopholes in the UK

article

Mom has a baby through surrogacy...is denied maternity leave even though adoptive mothers can have it...

Butterbrot

I don't get this either. My sperm donor (aka my husband) is German. My daughter is both American and German. In fact, they told us at the consulate if we tried to enter the US with her without an American passport for her, we'd be fined $2,000. If the mother or father is American, the child is automatically American, too. Or did I understand that wrong?

wise_rita

Yankee that article was messed up. It's the 21st century! Surrogacy isn't going to go away so policies need to deal with it, and not shut surrogacy moms out because it's new and "weird".

Butterbrot:

If the mother or father is American, the child is automatically American, too. Or did I understand that wrong?

I'm not sure it's as automatic as being born on US soil. I mean, if the parent doesn't report the birth immediately can an 18 year old request to become American? A 5 or 10 year old? I don't know.

wise_rita

dup

kelly321

myblueangel19:

wow. I thought that if one parent was American, that was enough to get citizenship. I am pretty sure I can register any future hypothetical children with the embassy and they get citizenship through me, no? What is the difference if the woman's sperm donor isn't american?

I think the problem was that she also had an egg donor, so if it was anonymous, she can't prove that either the egg or the sperm donor is American. If it was her egg, then this makes 0 sense since she could just have a maternity test done and prove they're hers.

frlcb

wise_rita:

Yankee that article was messed up. It's the 21st century! Surrogacy isn't going to go away so policies need to deal with it, and not shut surrogacy moms out because it's new and "weird".

Butterbrot:

If the mother or father is American, the child is automatically American, too. Or did I understand that wrong?

I'm not sure it's as automatic as being born on US soil. I mean, if the parent doesn't report the birth immediately can an 18 year old request to become American? A 5 or 10 year old? I don't know.

Yes, they can, as long as the parents met the criteria, which is the following:

What are the requirements to transmit citizenship?

If the child?s parents are both U.S. citizens, a foreign-born child would be a U.S. citizen if:

• at least one of the parents resided in the United States or a U.S. possession prior to the child's birth; and,
• the child was born in wedlock. 

If one parent is not a U.S. citizen, the U.S. citizen parent must have lived in the United States for a specific period of time before the child was born to transmit citizenship. For children born on or after November 14, 1986, the U.S. citizen parent must have lived in the United States or an outlying possession for five years, of which two years had to be after the age of 14, prior to the birth of the child.  For children born before that date, please consult our citizenship chart for the transmission requirements.

 

Look, clearly this story is messed up. No doubt. And it seems wrong, since in every other instance only 1 parent is required to be a US citizen to pass down citizenship, so I don't know what the deal is with this. But sometimes the amount of US hatred on this board (generally speaking) is irritating. The US is not the only country with crazy stories like this by any means. 

Tofumonkey

So, any American that donates sperm or eggs either in the States or abroad, or used abroad, guarantees the product of their sperm or egg American citizenship?

So, if two Russians used an American sperm donor for IVF in Russia, their child would be American. 

elenetxu

Tofumonkey:

So, any American that donates sperm or eggs either in the States or abroad, or used abroad, guarantees the product of their sperm or egg American citizenship?

So, if two Russians used an American sperm donor for IVF in Russia, their child would be American. 

 

Can I get a "yee-haw?"

I loled, imagining some sort of sick US male exodus abroad to donate sperm and take over the world!

 

 

wise_rita

frlcb:

sometimes the amount of US hatred on this board (generally speaking) is irritating. The US is not the only country with crazy stories like this by any means. 

I'm sorry to offend your sense of patriotism but I call it like I see it. The entire political climate of the US is disgusting which definitely adds fuel to the eye roll fire.

wise_rita

That is a VERY good point, Tofu. They're setting a very dangerous prescident here, cutting off their nose to spite their face just so they can make some example out of these 2 little girls who obviously have the right to citizenship.

frlcb

wise_rita:

frlcb:

sometimes the amount of US hatred on this board (generally speaking) is irritating. The US is not the only country with crazy stories like this by any means. 

 

I'm sorry to offend your sense of patriotism but I call it like I see it. The entire political climate of the US is disgusting which definitely adds fuel to the eye roll fire.

Patriotism? No, just an annoyance at what often comes across as a better than thou attitude because people are expats and don't live in this 'disgusting' country. To consistently point out stories about things here without mentioning similar issues in other countries seems completely one sided. 

Don't presume I am patriotic because I get annoyed at the frequency of the posts, which, to be fair, often come from you.

 

wise_rita

frlcb:

wise_rita:

frlcb:

sometimes the amount of US hatred on this board (generally speaking) is irritating. The US is not the only country with crazy stories like this by any means. 

 

I'm sorry to offend your sense of patriotism but I call it like I see it. The entire political climate of the US is disgusting which definitely adds fuel to the eye roll fire.

Patriotism? No, just an annoyance at what often comes across as a better than thou attitude because people are expats and don't live in this 'disgusting' country. To consistently point out stories about things here without mentioning similar issues in other countries seems completely one sided. 

Don't presume I am patriotic because I get annoyed at the frequency of the posts, which, to be fair, often come from you.

 

I picked this story off Married Life but I don't expect that to carry much weight. My brain isn't functioning much at this hour so I'll come back tomorrow. I don't mean to butt hurt those who choose to live in the US (and damn right I stand by the disgusting comment in a political context).

Emily523

amen, frlcb.

 

GilliC

frlcb:

What are the requirements to transmit citizenship?

If the child?s parents are both U.S. citizens, a foreign-born child would be a U.S. citizen if:

- at least one of the parents resided in the United States or a U.S. possession prior to the child's birth; and,

- the child was born in wedlock. 

Umm.... WTF?  Wouldn't that mean that if a single American woman living overseas accidentally gets pregnant and has the baby abroad, that it isn't eligible for US citizenship?

I have to be misreading something, because that is flat out insane. 

wise_rita

frlcb:

wise_rita:

frlcb:

sometimes the amount of US hatred on this board (generally speaking) is irritating. The US is not the only country with crazy stories like this by any means. 

 

I'm sorry to offend your sense of patriotism but I call it like I see it. The entire political climate of the US is disgusting which definitely adds fuel to the eye roll fire.

Patriotism? No, just an annoyance at what often comes across as a better than thou attitude because people are expats and don't live in this 'disgusting' country. To consistently point out stories about things here without mentioning similar issues in other countries seems completely one sided. 

Don't presume I am patriotic because I get annoyed at the frequency of the posts, which, to be fair, often come from you.

 

I picked this story off Married Life but I don't expect that to carry much weight. My brain isn't functioning much at this hour so I'll come back tomorrow. I don't mean to butt hurt those who choose to live in the US (and damn right I stand by the disgusting comment in a political context).

Knitty

wise_rita:

So I can assume on the "American citizens born abroad" paperwork it asks Was this child concieved with the sperm or egg of the American parent?

God help me if I need an egg donor, that child will be just another dirty foreigner and not entitled to the preshush gift of American citizenship.

 

Yes, the paperwork asks that.

And, America gives out citizenship like candy. Cross the border 39 weeks pregnant and your kid has it, no questions asked.

frlcb

wise_rita:

I picked this story off Married Life but I don't expect that to carry much weight. My brain isn't functioning much at this hour so I'll come back tomorrow. I don't mean to butt hurt those who choose to live in the US (and damn right I stand by the disgusting comment in a political context).

Saying I am butt hurt is quite a stretch, I simply pointed out that I find it irritating. And guess what? I found it irritating when I didn't live in the US, so my locale has nothing to do with it.

I like living in the US. I liked living in the UK. I would love to live overseas again, and maybe we will. I think the fact that you said things like 'those who choose to live in the US' just reiterates the whole holier than thou attitude at being an expat.

frlcb

GilliC:

frlcb:

What are the requirements to transmit citizenship?

If the child?s parents are both U.S. citizens, a foreign-born child would be a U.S. citizen if:

- at least one of the parents resided in the United States or a U.S. possession prior to the child's birth; and,

- the child was born in wedlock. 

Umm.... WTF?  Wouldn't that mean that if a single American woman living overseas accidentally gets pregnant and has the baby abroad, that it isn't eligible for US citizenship?

I have to be misreading something, because that is flat out insane. 

Here is info if born out of wedlock:

http://travel.state.gov/law/citizenship/citizenship_5199.html 

GilliC

frlcb:

Here is info if born out of wedlock:

http://travel.state.gov/law/citizenship/citizenship_5199.html 

Thanks! Glad to know that if I get knocked up, I won't end up with stateless babies. Though it's kind of odd to think that if someone was born here as a US citizen, and then became a single mother, they would have a stateless baby.

What does one do with a stateless baby? The non-US-citizen child here wouldn't be eligible for Norwegian citizenship, so does that mean it just has to be put up for adoption?

Also, is it possible to adopt your own children? Could the woman in Israel just arrange to relinquish her children in a private adoption to herself? That way she doesn't have to worry about the genetics?

Emily523

This thread has me slightly heated.  I'm realizing why I've stayed away from here for a while...

They can get their "preshush" US citizenship if they live here for 6 months and do the paperwork.  I agree that it's crazy and they should be given citizenship since their mother is a citizen, but they are looking at it like they aren't even her children.

eta: wording 

ooolalalolo

frlcb:

wise_rita:

I picked this story off Married Life but I don't expect that to carry much weight. My brain isn't functioning much at this hour so I'll come back tomorrow. I don't mean to butt hurt those who choose to live in the US (and damn right I stand by the disgusting comment in a political context).

Saying I am butt hurt is quite a stretch, I simply pointed out that I find it irritating. And guess what? I found it irritating when I didn't live in the US, so my locale has nothing to do with it.

I like living in the US. I liked living in the UK. I would love to live overseas again, and maybe we will. I think the fact that you said things like 'those who choose to live in the US' just reiterates the whole holier than thou attitude at being an expat.

I wonder if she meant 'butt heads'? 

ukyankee

I get posting this stuff.  When I see something stupid about the US, I want to talk to people about it and the Nest & other INs seem to be the people to talk about it with.  Particularly stuff that might effect an IN.  I might not post stuff about the UK, cause it may not interest those of you who aren't British...but most people who are on this board are American.  It's not worth getting upset with someone who's posting to complain about this stuff cause it's what has caught their interest.  I just happened to see a similar article today about GB, but otherwise I wouldn't have posted that article.  And when I post something or reply to something that "puts down" the US, it's not that I'm putting down the people I know in the US or saying "oh, poor you, you have to live with this"...I'm posting it cause it pisses me off to see some of it happening in the country I used to see through much more naive eyes.  Now as an expat, I see the good, bad and ugly and it makes me think and want to talk about it with people who might get it.

allibally

ukyankee:

Similar loopholes in the UK

article

Mom has a baby through surrogacy...is denied maternity leave even though adoptive mothers can have it...

More issues if you are gay Israeli's who use surrogacy to have a family. Including being stranded in India because Israel will not grant the babies entry. Not to mention if you are gay they won't even let you have a surrogate in Israel so they need to head to US and India to find them. http://www.indianexpress.com/news/surrogacy-israeli-father-twins-stranded-in-mumbai/617098/

Same with Switzerland which doesn't allow surrogacy at all in the country. And as I looked this I found out many other European countries have the same policy.

I'll give the US a wtf... but seriously I could give the whole world a wtf if I wanted too. 

Emily523

I get posting it, too.  I also get where frlcb is coming from with rita being holier than thou about it.  I've always thought that about her, though. 

 I get very irritated with a lot of stuff said on this board, though.  There's my lesson of the day.  

frlcb

Emily523:

I get posting it, too.  I also get where frlcb is coming from with rita being holier than thou about it.  I've always thought that about her, though. 

 I get very irritated with a lot of stuff said on this board, though.  There's my lesson of the day.  

Yeah, this is it. I totally get the posting it in a 'wow, this is so crazy, how could this be possible?' kind of way but not in a 'every day my country spews some crap that makes me shake my head in disgust and if you don't agree then you are overly patriotic and it is your fault for 'choosing' to live in the US'.

Big difference. 

elenetxu

ukyankee:

I get posting this stuff.  When I see something stupid about the US, I want to talk to people about it and the Nest & other INs seem to be the people to talk about it with.  Particularly stuff that might effect an IN.  I might not post stuff about the UK, cause it may not interest those of you who aren't British...but most people who are on this board are American.  It's not worth getting upset with someone who's posting to complain about this stuff cause it's what has caught their interest.  I just happened to see a similar article today about GB, but otherwise I wouldn't have posted that article.  And when I post something or reply to something that "puts down" the US, it's not that I'm putting down the people I know in the US or saying "oh, poor you, you have to live with this"...I'm posting it cause it pisses me off to see some of it happening in the country I used to see through much more naive eyes.  Now as an expat, I see the good, bad and ugly and it makes me think and want to talk about it with people who might get it.

 

This, and I'm a heck of a lot more comfortable talking about these subjects with other Americans than with locals who, if I make a mistake about the exact facts, will be judging my home. For example, yesterday some of my coworkers asked me about healthcare in the US. Since I've lived in the US for approximately 12 months since I turned 18, I'm not even sure what to tell them since it's never really been something I've had to worry about. I always get nervous that I'll make a mistake and a country I still very much to be my "home" will be wrongly judged.

GilliC

frlcb:

but not in a 'every day my country spews some crap that makes me shake my head in disgust and if you don't agree then you are overly patriotic and it is your fault for 'choosing' to live in the US'.

Meh. It's tax season. Daily reminders of the US's less-than-stellar tax laws are par for the course at this time of the year, and I remember a similar deluge of annoyance posts last spring. "April showers bring complaints about the US tax laws." I doubt wise_rita would have qualified her post with "Daily" if it was any other time of the year.

And FWIW, I don't see how it's "holier than thou" to complain about your country just because you're an ex-pat. I complained about my country just as much before I moved overseas. I don't even know how many times I wrote to my congressman to complain about some of the asinine anti-gay legislation that was being tossed around back then.