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Porn and female friends
Ok, so I've been crying on the phone for the past hour, and haven't slept yet, so I apologize if this rambling. I created an AE for privacy reasons, and I promise this isn't MUD of any kind.
My FI and I have been working through some current issues and just tonight had another blow. We share passwords and access to everything, so it's not uncommon for one of us to be on the others' account at any given time. I was in his e-mail account browsing (I know, I know, bad) and saw where he had sent an e-mail to his friend. Now, this friend is female and is his "bestie" for about 7 years now. She's gorgeous and close to him so I've always been a wee bit uncomfortable about their relationship. But who am I to judge his friendships as long as they're appropriate. I swear that he's at least some time in the past had romantic feelings towards her (just the way he acts sometimes) but he denies it.
So I open the e-mail and find....it's a link to PORN. A specific trailer, to be exact. I'm floored. So I instantly call him and demand to know what the hell this was about. He then shares with me that since they're so close, she will sometimes ask him for porn recommendations and he will gladly share. Sometimes it's just websites, and apparently sometimes it's actual links to specific videos.
I was disgusted. He sent another woman pornography. He tried to brush it off as something he would do with a guy friend and considers her as such. I said as long as she has a vagina, she is not a male friend. It's incredibly inappropriate and disrespectful to our relationship to be sending another woman porn. He didn't get it until I tried the role reversal and eventually broke down crying.
Just the thought of him getting aroused to a specific video and then sending it to his female friend to share the arousal....it makes me ill. He swears it wasn't done for that purpose but what the hell else would it be done for??
Maybe it's because we've already been going through some things, but am I wrong in this thinking? Does anyone find this remotely ok?
Re: Porn and female friends
I think it's completely inappropriate for your fiance to send anything close to porn to a female friend. I also would never marry a man who's "bestie" is some other woman; YOU should be the closest female relationship to him. There's nothign wrong with friends of the opposite sex, but once one is in a serious relationship there should be boundaries.
Oh wow, really? Ick.
"If you wanna win then you shoulda put a hat on it. Don't be mad when you see a knit cap won it. If you wanna win then you shoulda put a hat on it."- Fenton
What are the other things that you two are going through ?
What were you looking for in his email ?
I recently went and stayed with my parents' for a week because of some slight domestic abuse issues. We had a major blow out last weekend where he took my phone and keys and wouldn't let me leave because he was "afraid I'd hurt myself". So I can't figure if that's the truth and he was trying to protect me, or if he was abusing me by now allowing me to leave (at a few points he physically restrained me from walking away).
I had been home 2 days when this happens. I think I snooped because of our recent separation. I was curious if he was actually serious about getting help for issues or if he'd see it as a "Hey! My chick's outta the house! Partyyy."
For the most part, he seemed to buckle down and be remorseful for all of the things he'd done. Went to counseling and seriously researched his jealousy and insecurity issues (which almost everything stems from) and how to manage them better.
And then I found that. I never once told him to end the friendship, only that I was *incredibly* uncomfortable about it now. So, he said he would willingly end the friendship because I mean more to him than she does.
He's also in a popular band that plays bars every weekend and that in itself is a whole other chapter of issues. Yayyy, I have the best relationship!
Seriously, though. I love that man more than life itself. He really does dote on me and treat me like the center of his world. Sometimes I say he loves me TOO MUCH. We've worked through a lot of the jealousy/insecurity issues over the past year, and he's learning how to argue better without resorting to touching me, annnd he says he's quitting the band after we get married (which is supposed to be this October, but we'll see)
So, do I stick it out and see the progress or head for the hills?
honestly, i would head for the hills. and i only say this because marriage is hard freaking work and issues like this just don't resolve themselves nor does the foundation of them ever go away.
there is abuse now, there will likely be abuse later.
and i am willing to bet that he will not end the friendship with this woman. it sounds like something he might say to calm things over.
and, really, if you are in counseling before marriage anyway that just seems like a tremendous red flag.
Oh hell no, run.
"If you wanna win then you shoulda put a hat on it. Don't be mad when you see a knit cap won it. If you wanna win then you shoulda put a hat on it."- Fenton
I always fell for the guy in the band back in the day. But it takes a certain kind of woman- a VERY secure one at that, to be able to deal with that. It doesn't sound like you're her. He shouldn't have to quit something he loves (that isn't inherently dangerous or felonious) because of a jealousy thing. But you also shouldn't be with a person whose hobby makes you jealous and insecure.
The rest of it, I don't know. I don't know if I think the porn sharing is that big a deal. I think it's a bigger deal that you feel you have the right to be in his email and/or that you actually do it. I NEVER check my husband's email. I'd be so pissed if he checked mine. Not because I have anything to hide- I just feel that's a real privacy violation. I have friends that tell me stuff in confidence that is none of his business. I might tell him an overview of a situation but not the details they don't want revealed to anyone but me. But he wouldn't do that anyway. In seven years he's never asked me for a password.
The DV- well, that's a big, separate thing. No, if you're not married to him yet, and you have a ton of issues already, then I definitely don't think planning a wedding is a good idea. If you have to ask strangers whether you should stay or go, I think you're leaning towards going anyway
I don't think there is any such thing as slight domestic abuse.
I do, and that's exactly how they get a victim to stick around for more. It always starts very small and the abuser is always very sorry, maybe even calls it an accident. The next time it's a little worse, and a little more the time after that. Eventually the victim is embarrassed that they've let it go this far which only makes them think they can't tell anyone.
Dont be this person, OP.
In all honesty, I didn't know he was in a band when I met him. That came up around our first date. He does love playing live, but his dream is to own his own studio which I can get behind 1,000%. I've told him numerous times that I will never ask him to choose between me or the band because I know it will only make him resent me. But I have shared the many stresses that the situation puts on our relationship. He has said he is tired of the long hours away from home, the constant drama, and just general debauchery that comes with being in a band. He says he wants to quit and plans on phasing it out this year and quitting by next year entirely. I know you don't come between a man and his passions, and I'm trying my damnedest not to.
The abuse thing...I didn't even really consider it abuse until this last episode when my mom made me call the national domestic abuse hotline. I told them some of the things he'd done in the past, and they said while he's never struck me, what he has done is abuse. He says every time he does it is to protect me, and I've explained it to him in detail how it's abuse. He does understand and swears up and down he's going to change his argument style. He's not a mean guy, he doesn't throw me around or treat me like dirt. He loves me but has some serious issues within himself.
I know they say any major issues need to be resolved before a marriage or they'll only get worse. Preferably don't have any "major" to start with. But this is my situation and what I have to deal with. I'm completely torn about staying with him and maybe not getting married any time soon, but strengthening our relationship and working on that foundation. Or just ending it all and walking away. I'm afraid to do that and then instantly doubt my decision.
Life, y u so hard?
I would not marry this man.
He has no notion of boundaries (sending porn to another female is inappropriate. I don't have a problem with porn in a relationship. However, INSIDE a relationship. Not sending it to a female that is not your partner).
Also, the DV thing will most likely get worse. If he doesn't fight fair now & puts his hands on you to prevent you from safely exiting during an altercation. That is abuse & you don't have to stay. Partners that abuse turn it around on their partner. There is never justification for putting your hands on someone trying to take a break from a heated conversation.
If you threatened to harm yourself he could call the police & let them get you to a safe place. Unless you are actively trying to throw yourself into traffic or in front of a train he should contain himself.
Really, it's easier to end an engagement than divorce. It sounds like you two are not compatible & you are trying to "make yourself ok" with things that make you uncomfortable. Please don't. The right relationship will not be this fraught with drama. Good luck.
Someone doesn't have to "throw you around" or "treat you like dirt" for them to be abusive. He keeps telling you hes doing these things to "protect you"? That's abuse. Nobody should have the right to take away your personal property. What's he worried you're going to do?
Honestly, if I were you, I'd cut bait. I believe in working on your problems, but these aren't problems. They're huge, flapping red flags. If you've got issues with him being in a band, how are they going to be resolved when he owns his own studio? Presumably, women will visit it more than once.
It would be one thing if he had friendships with women. A lot of men can easily have friendships with the opposite sex. But that's not what's going on here. He's sending PORN links to other women? How is that okay?
So you'd be okay with your husband confiding in another woman, turning to her for advice, and running to her if/when you and your husband have a rough patch? Because that goes along with a best friend.
I love that man more than life itself. He really does dote on me and treat me like the center of his world. Sometimes I say he loves me TOO MUCH.
This reads to me like you're over romanticizing your relationship, and that you're trying to fit a square peg into a round hole.
And the he loves you "too much"? That statement coupled w/ your "slight" DV - doesn't bode well to me, quite honestly.
~Benjamin Franklin
DS dx with celiac disease 5/28/10
I agree with the ick to that, but I do think it's just good sense not to date a guy who has a close friend that you get the impression that he has feelings for.
Yes, you psycho.
OP -- you never ever want to be in a relationship with a guy you can claim loves you TOO much. Molly, you in trouble girl.
"That chick wins at Penises, for sure." -- Fenton
Yes, I would. A friend is a friend is a friend. It matters not if it's inconvenient because he has a p and she has a v. How is it any different than he confiding in a male friend? Everyone should have a person to speak with when they just need to vent/bounce ideas off of/whatever.
I do concur with Kuus in that I would be a lot less care free with this if the female friend was someone I thought he had feelings for. But that goes the same for a male friend also!
"If you wanna win then you shoulda put a hat on it. Don't be mad when you see a knit cap won it. If you wanna win then you shoulda put a hat on it."- Fenton
I agree with you this is terribly inappropriate. If he is not immediately remorseful with promises to stop I'd say it is a deal breaker. However if he promises to reform and you still love him I would give him another chance.
As far as your other issues go I would say the same thing. Get into counseling give it one last shot to reform and if it doesn't change within a set period of time I say you walk. You don't want to be stuck in a sucky relationship and you certainly don't want to have to get a divorce.
If you love him you just have to try to work at it. I learned in my last relationship it doesn't do anything to harp on them and constantly be insecure about what they are doing or not doing. You need to probably give him the benefit of the doubt and both trust eachother. If you are going to continue this relationship you need to forgive him and not bring it up all the time. The only way your relationship is going to work is if you let this go and give him the benefit of the doubt. If you aren't willing to do that I would say your relationship is over. Neither of you want to live with the constant strain of mistrust.
Is there a reason you're so personally offended by my opinion? You should be able to read differing views without accusing me of being "psycho" especially if you're confident in your stance.
I know of 3 cases where "platonic" best friends turned into a romantic relationship. One specific case was when both parties were married and they all socialized together/had play dates with their kids, etc. The husband was turning to his best friend for support/to vent about the stresses he and his family were going through and eventually he thought he'd be happier with her since they obviously clicked. Another case was opposite, the wife leaving her husband. I've also witnessed a few of who I always thought platonic male friends drop as soon as I began a relationship--people I'd known for years and saw frequently--because they were ultimately looking for more from me.
Marriage is a partnership and I don't think it's appropriate for either spouse to have a friend of the opposite sex who is equally as close as one's husband/wife. Sure, good friends are fine, but there's a boundary that shouldn't be crossed and referring back to the OP, sharing porn is one of them.
Ok,
I am going to reply and give you both sides, his side and your side (us woman.) I became recently engaged to a real true gentleman, who would never ever ever touch me or any woman for that matter in an angered way. I was also previously engaged when I was 18 y/o, we were together for a total of 4 1/2 years. We "fell" in love 2 weeks into the relationship and got engaged at 6 months. I moved in with his parents and him, my parents were just not too thrilled and since I was acting like such an "adult" they kicked me out so I could live on my own like an adult. Everything was great for about the first year, after that, not so much. There was a time towards the end of our relationship that porn and aggressiveness became a major part of our relationship. I spent several nights, weekends, weeks at my parents or friends, just to get a way and let things cool down.
I will tell you from experience, it will not get better, no matter how hard you work at it. I had to deal with cheating, addiction to porn, drugs and all the lies that come with it. I will tell you that when you are engaged and soon to be married, if you tell your partner that something bothers you, especially another woman as a friend, it puts a big damper on your relationship. In all honesty, he probably did have a past romantic history with her and if he has not he most certainly has thought about it. I remember one guy friend telling me that a guy never keeps a girl as a friend to just be friends with her!
When I started reading your story, it broke my heart and brought back horrible memories, especially the porn. Now, just sending her a link to a specific video is not as bad as what I encountered. But, I remember nights where he would be out with his friends and I knew something was up. I had all the passwords to his computer and e-mail, etc...The things I found were disgusting and heart wrenching. The fact that he took the time out to look for a video that she asked him to basically find, well thats just wrong.
It got to the point where he became more interested in the porn than his real life fiance. When he was interested in me, he was a lot more aggressive and the things he would say and want me to do were repulsive.
From the guys point of view, I am a guys girl. I have guy friends, growing up I lived in a neighborhood where I was the only girl. So basically, I grew up a MAJOR tomboy. So, I have guy friends now and my fiance is okay with that, some of them are his really great friends too. But, I do not ask any of them for advice on which porn videos to watch and he would NEVER do that to me. It is inappropriate and rude. The major thing with my fiance now is that we talk about everything and no matter how much it might hurt the other person, we do not hold back or lie. It may hurt and we may fight, but we do not hide anything and everthing is always out in the open. He should have told you that she asked him to look for a porn video!
All in all, I think you should end it now. Trust me, I thought about ending at least a year before I actually did. But, I didn't do it because I was afraid others would think of me as a failure or that I gave up to easily. But, there comes a time when you have to realize that you are fighting a loosing battle. You have to realize that you are not giving up or that you are a failure but YOU are ending a not so healthy relationship and that you are taking a step in the right direction!
"That chick wins at Penises, for sure." -- Fenton
See, I'm just of the mindset that if they're going to cheat, they will. Chick bestie or not.
"If you wanna win then you shoulda put a hat on it. Don't be mad when you see a knit cap won it. If you wanna win then you shoulda put a hat on it."- Fenton