Family Matters
MeganAngela
member
Dear Community,
Our tech team has launched updates to The Nest today. As a result of these updates, members of the Nest Community will need to change their password in order to continue participating in the community. In addition, The Nest community member's avatars will be replaced with generic default avatars. If you wish to revert to your original avatar, you will need to re-upload it via The Nest.
If you have questions about this, please email help@theknot.com.
Thank you.
Note: This only affects The Nest's community members and will not affect members on The Bump or The Knot.
Our tech team has launched updates to The Nest today. As a result of these updates, members of the Nest Community will need to change their password in order to continue participating in the community. In addition, The Nest community member's avatars will be replaced with generic default avatars. If you wish to revert to your original avatar, you will need to re-upload it via The Nest.
If you have questions about this, please email help@theknot.com.
Thank you.
Note: This only affects The Nest's community members and will not affect members on The Bump or The Knot.
In-Laws and Home Buying: Round Two
First I want to say thank you for all of the advice supplied in the previous post! I really appreciate it. However, things just took a turn for the worst this morning and I need a little more help. I didn't want it to get buried in the bottom of the last post, so I thought I'd open a fresh one to ask for advice on the recent turn of events.
I'm afraid to say that things are getting more dire on the situation. MIL called today, and among other assorted gossip she wanted to talk about, she told H that she is going to call her life insurance provider to see about taking money out of that to give to us for a down payment.
This is just completely out of hand. We don't want to accept money from them as it would definitely come with strings, and we really just don't want a house right now. We can't decide whether we should call her back later and confront her or just wait until she brings something else up. What are your thoughts?
HELP!
(Also, for what it is worth, I'm not angry that H didn't confront her right then and there. He's easily flabbergasted and it is something we're working on. He's much better at planned confrontations than impromptu ones. He grew up in a household that taught him that you do what your parents tell you and you never talk back. You don't get a say as you are the child. He's done a lot of work undoing that teaching and he's made a lot of leaps in that, but sometimes he still gets blindsided and doesn't know what to say. But that is why I'm not upset that he didn't say anything right then and there while she was on the phone.)
I'm afraid to say that things are getting more dire on the situation. MIL called today, and among other assorted gossip she wanted to talk about, she told H that she is going to call her life insurance provider to see about taking money out of that to give to us for a down payment.
This is just completely out of hand. We don't want to accept money from them as it would definitely come with strings, and we really just don't want a house right now. We can't decide whether we should call her back later and confront her or just wait until she brings something else up. What are your thoughts?
HELP!
(Also, for what it is worth, I'm not angry that H didn't confront her right then and there. He's easily flabbergasted and it is something we're working on. He's much better at planned confrontations than impromptu ones. He grew up in a household that taught him that you do what your parents tell you and you never talk back. You don't get a say as you are the child. He's done a lot of work undoing that teaching and he's made a lot of leaps in that, but sometimes he still gets blindsided and doesn't know what to say. But that is why I'm not upset that he didn't say anything right then and there while she was on the phone.)
Re: In-Laws and Home Buying: Round Two
Talk to them. One of the things Inoticed in your other post was a lot of "we don't discuss" w/ them - and not just about the house issue, but other things too.
START TALKING. They aren't mind readers. They are probably taking your silences as agreement. So SPEAK UP.
And your DH needs to not look at this like he's saying "no" to his mom. He needs to look at it like he's doing exactly what he's doing - explaining a HUGE life decision that is actually between you and him, not him and his parents.
And stop thinking of it as a "confrontation". That word says "attitude" and "fight". Don't think of it that way. Look at it like your simply updating them and TALKING to them.
Your DH does need to realize and prepare himself, though, that she/they WILL be upset. But he isn't responsible for their feelings. He cant' make them feel one way or the other.
~Benjamin Franklin
DS dx with celiac disease 5/28/10
Ignoring it and thinking it was rude or confrontational to tell them flat out to stop got it to this point. Your DH needs to phone her back asap and tell her not to take the money out, you will NOT be accepting it and to please respect your decision to not buy a home. Maybe she needs to be told to go to the garage and take a long hard look at the table that is sitting there because she did not listen.
You both have the power to make it stop. She is not going to cut you out of her life if you tell her enough!
Also, I think it is just hard because I've gotten advice, even here, that says that we shouldn't tell his parents about our plans because it isn't their business and we'll just be giving them more ammo. They don't need to know about our living plans, baby plans, dream plans, etc. So, we've kept tight lipped on our lives because it really isn't their business. We don't want to update them because then it will be a deluge of questions on whatever we tell them all the time. I mean, this whole thing came up because several months ago we were just saying casually to them that one day we'd like a house with a basement. We can't cut them out, but they are the epitome of "give them an inch".
I guess it is one of those fine lines you have to walk between telling them everything and telling them enough to make your intentions known.
But a lot of the reason we don't discuss these things is because we don't want them involved. Period. We really don't want to accept any help or advice from his parents solely because everything with them is with strings attached. We're just tired of the pressure and questions, which is what makes us pull away and discuss things even less. They make us feel like they don't trust us to do things on our own terms.
I don't know. It's just a big mess.
It's a big mess because your DH does not tell them to stop. You don't have to tell them your business you just have to make it clear every time you are not interested. You can do this without sharing your information. The more excuses and info you give them the more she thinks she can change your thinking. Don't give her that power. I hope he already called and told her to stop. It is not that hard to say, "Mom I need you to stop and listen, we do not want this, please do not ruin our relationship by not respecting our wishes. I will not be talking further on this and will leave or hang up any time you mention house buying."
You're absolutely right that it doesn't have to be a confrontation. Unfortunately, even if you go to her in the nicest of ways, she gets extremely hurt, starts to cry and goes and locks herself in her bedroom. Then FIL starts to yell at DH telling him that he doesn't approve of his choices and that he should know better than to upset his mom.
For example, during the wedding planning, we were all out to eat at a restaurant. The subject of the guest list came up and if the in-laws could invite extended family (like second and third cousins). We told them we only had room for about 75 to 80 people and between his immediate family, my immediate family and a few friends we were full. She got upset and asked why we were having a wedding we couldn't afford (i.e. why were we having a wedding where we couldn't afford more guests) and why my mom, who was paying for it, was not spending more to invite more people. We tried to tell her that this wasn't a slight against them and that I wasn't even able to invite my father's side of the family because we didn't have the money or room, and she started crying and made a huge scene in the restaurant before jumping up and running out.
We love the woman, but non-confrontational isn't in her vocabulary. Even the smallest things give her a victim complex. So the fallout from this is going to be major, even if we do this as politely as possible. I guess that is why I keep calling it a confrontation because in the end, she'll feel that it is even if it isn't.
Well this is sucky. If you read my reply with your other post then you know with my mom in law she is also someone who if they help then she makes sure she gets some say. But she has also respectfully backed off when I said I wanted complete say in something. Maybe it's time to out right say "We appreciate the offer but we don't want your help because we want 100 percent control in what goes on with the house" The way I worded it just now was rude lol. So maybe find a better more mature way to put it.
But it seems you guys need to be more blunt. She clearly isn't getting it. Clearly the woman means well so maybe she thinks are actions are okay
We just called her to talk with her about it. We even wrote out what we wanted to say before hand. It was basically a mash up of the suggestions you all gave us. Needless to say, she kept cutting DH off before hanging up. We're going to try her again later as she didn't seem angry, just unwilling to back down from her position. She tried to justify things by explaining to DH that his younger cousins have a house now. The flaw in her logic is that they inherited the house when their father died, so it wasn't exactly their choice. She did seem annoyed when DH told her that buying a home should be a decision that we make as husband and wife, but that's a whole different thing for a whole different day.
Just, thank you again! Any other suggestions are definitely welcome as we're going to have to have a second phone call with her later!
I'm so proud of you guys for how you handled it so far....
I think some other points are "this is becoming a source of stress between us and I would rather you just let us come to you if and when we need advice" and "I can't keep up with the Jones' or the cousins or anyone for that matter, I need to do what's right for us and we have decided that we are not in the market for a house at this time".
I would keep re-stating the same position along with "I hope you can find a way to support us, even if you don't agree with us"
I feel your pain! As much as it sucks and as much of a drama queen as she is, you just have to hold firm and politely but directly say "thanks, but no thanks.". It was generous of them to offer to give you a down payment (albeit with strings from the sounds of it) but if you're not ready for a house, you aren't ready. No amount of nagging from well intentioned family is going to change that. It is her fault if she doesn't want to listen, you can't help that.
Just continue to repeat it as many times as necessary. "Thank you for your kind offer but we can't possibly accept it. This subject isn't open for discussion anymore and if you persist, we will have no choice but to end the conversation and go on our merry way."
It's clear that the ILs see you "not being in the market right now" for a house the same thing as "we cannot afford a house." So, they are thinking now is the time to buy so they are doing this life insurance thing for you.
You need to be specific about what not being in the market means. To them , it means you don't have the money.
Maybe this is the case, but you have other reasons. Tell them those.
She is acting this way because she can...and is trying to manipulate you and your DH into seeing things her way! Don't let her... she'll get over it if she wants a relationship with you two.... I agree with repeating what some of the others told you and tell her that a tantrum won't help her get her way either! If she keeps pushing, she'll likely to push her son our of her life... why would he want to talk to her if she is always hounding him about something that you all have no interest in. End of story!
Read THe Dance of Anger... you'll see her in there.
The next time MIL makes a scene, have this in your repertoire: "This is clearly a bad time for a visit, so we're going to go home. Have a good night." And then leave. Calmly and immediately. If it's at your home, tell them the visit is over.
Why in the world are you allowing yourselves to be manipulated like this? If this isn't nipped in the bud NOW, your lives will revolve around placating the parents. You and your DH will resent each other. You'll be miserable. After all, you're not very happy with the situation now, are you?
All you have to do to stop it is to decide to draw your line. Your husband married YOU. YOU are his life partner, and YOU are the one he has promised to make happy. He needs to realize that the two of you are in this together, things with his folks have to change, and if he doesn't grow a pair he's putting his marriage at risk. (You'll need to grow a pair too.) So mommy and daddy aren't happy- so what? What will they do- ground you?
Talk to them, explain how things will be from now on. If they dont like your choices, too bad. They can keep quiet and respect your decisions or have limited contact with you and your DH. Or no contact. Cut them out for a couple of months and I bet they'll get the picture.
I sincerely hope you see how abnormal all of this is, that you're both so terrified of doing anything to displease his parents. You should be in control of your own lives. I hope you find the cahones to take your power back.
At this point, you have told her you don't want the money. As pp suggested, make it very clear that your lack of interest in buying a home is not financial. I would probably also point out that you're tired of emailed crack house listings, but I'm kind of a jerk.
Tell her that you WILL NOT take the money. If she withdraws it anyway, DO NOT take it, and when she throws her little hissy fit - and she will - tell her that you told her what would happen if she did this and you meant it. Her decision to pull the money out anyway was her own irresponsible decision and you aren't responsible for that.
I think some of this is about your FIL too. His mom freaks out, his dad rushes to her rescue.
Let her get upset, let her run to her room. His dad starts yelling? Your DH needs to say "Dad - wer'e all adults here. I can't make major life decisions based on whether i'm going to upset poor mommy's little itty bitty feelings" (and yes, I'd say it just like that). His dad needs to realize how ridiculous this is.
While on mnay levels you all are doing a good job of setting boundaries, in the end, you still are giving this woman WAAY too much power.
And if she does get the $$ and tries to give it to you - DO NOT ACCEPT IT. No matter what. DO NOT ACCEPT IT. You can't control if she takes it out, but you can contorl not accepting it.
~Benjamin Franklin
DS dx with celiac disease 5/28/10
All of this, and especially the bolded. Children should be taught that a temper tantrum doesn't get them what they want. It is no more acceptable for an adult to pull the same crap.
OP, not sure exactly what your DH said when he spoke to his mom on the phone, but as he actually come out and said that her level of involvement is inappropriate at this point? If he's instead focusing on smaller details like why you guys don't want to buy a house, I think he's ignoring the bigger issue here (and of course, the fact that the cousin has a house, or that that house was acquired through an inheritance, are irrelevant). The bottom line is that major life decision like this must be made between DH and yourself--and as adults, you two are more than capable of making those decisions.
THerefore, if MIL starts to say, "But so-and-so already has a house," or "We'll lend you the money," your H should respond simply by saying, "Mom, it is inappropriate for you to be involved in this decision. We're adults and we will handle it." He should not let himself be dragged into an argument about whether or not this actually is a good time to buy a house.
As everyone else has already pointed out, your MIL is probably very used to getting her way (obviously, FIL does not challenge her too much). If she throws a fit, either on the phone or in person, your DH should say, "I can see you're upset. We'll discuss this later, one you've calmed down." He should then remove himself (and you) from the conversation. If FIL tries to make you feel bad, DH should say something like, "Dad, her behavior is very inappropriate. I'm an adult and I expect to be treated like one."
This situation is probably going to get worse before it gets better, as it will probably take your IL's a while to learn the proper way to deal with an adult son and DIL. And they're sure to get angry and upset often. But because they are so pushy and intrusive, you guys should not let an incident go by without telling them, clearly and firmly, how you expect to be treated.
Wow. You let these people control your entire lives, don't you? I can't even fathom that. Who cares if she cries? She's just trying to manipulate you. Have your DH man up and tell them you are NOT INTERESTED?
This is not that hard to fix.
I ditto that you have just as much of a FIL problem as a MIL problem. "Dad, it would be irrational for my wife and I to make major life decisions based on mom's tantrums. Don't you agree?" is another way to make your point.
It's awkward when you find yourself being a parent to your parent's childlike behaviors... This is worth the battle because if this doesn't get fixed now, could you imagine how horrible it'd be when/if you have kids? Your MIL would cry if she couldn't see her "baby" every week or month, and you and your DH would be emotionally exhausting yourself discussing how to deal with her. You don't give someone attention for poor behavior.
Your MIL clearly does not respect you and DH's wishes, so stop caring so much about her feelings. You are not responsible for another person's feelings. You are empathetic, I get that, but to the extreme that you are willing to let your feelings suffer way too much. You are doing enough by being assertive - how she chooses to react to your choices is her problem.
Tell your H to be very brief and very direct. Read it from a piece of paper if he has to. "Mom, we're not buying a house right now no matter what you do. If you withdraw that money we will not take it. My wife and I will decide when to make major life decisions like buying a house, together."
Then let the fallout be whatever it is. Who cares.