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Update to Intolerant In-Laws
My FIL has now called both my DH and I embarrassments because we believe people are either born gay or straight. If THAT isn't enough he added insult to injury by telling my DH that, "he feels sad for him that he let his wife force him into changing his beliefs and is no longer the man of the house". WTF?!?! Are you kidding me? My FIL is supposedly a DEVOUT CHRISTIAN and this is the *** that spews out of his mouth? Uh.....H'OKAY - don't think so!
And on another related note, long story short my FIL insulted my BIL's fiance's brother by calling him fat and weak (he gave him a weight belt for his bachelor party gift and said "this is for when you have heavy lifting...carrying your wife over the threshold"). He said he was joking, but he was clearly just being mean. And to make matters WORSE my MIL told my BIL that he would be HAPPIER if he spent LESS time with his fiance. Are you f*#King kidding me?!?!?! I feel like my ILs are trying to sabotage EVERY relationship their kids have because us wives and fiances weren't prude, never-been-kissed, virgins like their parents wanted for their sons. It drives me ##batshitfuckingnuts. Sorry for the language, but it's seriously RIDICULOUS and I don't know HOW I am going to be able to ever be in the same room with them, MUCH LESS let them around my future children if they continue to act this way. Any words of advice or should I just let it go? (My BILs fiance called me crying 2 days ago telling me that she feels hated and unwelcome to the family)
Re: Update to Intolerant In-Laws
Thanks! The weirdest thing about MIL is that she's normally the down-to-earth one who doesn't force her beliefs on anyone and is accepting and welcoming....guess that was all a facade. It's so sad that this is happening because I would LOVE LOVE LOVE for my children to have a good relationship with their paternal and maternal grandparents, but at this rate it doesn't seem like it's going to happen. The face to face thing is hard because my DH and I live in VA and ILs live in TX......but next time we are down there, we are all (DH, myself, BIL and his fiance) going to sit down and have a serious discussion with the ILs. I have already told FIL MULTIPLE times that he will never be alone with my children and he thinks I'm not being serious. But I am. Here's the reasoning behind that and it's long so I apologize in advance.
FIL was sexually abused (so was I, but I talk about it openly and am not ashamed because I was 4 years old when it happened) but FIL is ashamed of it and NEVER talks about it. IMO the people who don't talk about their abuse are the ones to be worried about. To make matters worse when my DH and his brothers were growing up if they spent what FIL believed was "too much time" in the restroom he would mark M next to the initial of the son he thought was masturbating...he did this the WHOLE time they were growing up. I think that is absolutely disgusting, weird, and MENTAL. To make matter WORSE, my FIL said to my BIL and his fiance, "I am so happy that kids have a time in their lives when their private parts are for going to the bathroom and not for anything sexual." OKay WTF!! 1) why the ** are you thinking about little kids' private parts and 2) Why are you thinking about the time when they switch from potty uses to sex?????? These are SERIOUS red flags for me (along with the homophobia and religious zealous-ness) that make me put my foot down on FIL NEVER being alone with my future children. (DH and BIL and fiance ALL feel same way) UGH it's just SO hard and so CRAZY and I wish I could trade ILs. My DH hasn't spoken to FIL in over a week because of the embarrassment and "no longer man of the house" comments. I am so happy for this because FIL thinks he's God's gift to the universe and his kids' think he's some saint. Guess what? They DON'T and they're EMBARRASSED by HIM CONSTANTLY. UGH sorry for the long vent. I'm done now.
You and fSIL are grown adults, you don't have to interact with these people if you don't want to!
Let your DH's deal with their parents and limit your contact as much as you can!
I feel for you.
I have distant relatives that are a little like this. I haven't heard any racist or homophobic stuff coming out of their mouths, but we are different religions and they are very judgey. Anyway, I can't stand listening to them. I excuse myself "to keep my eye on the kids," but sometimes it's just because I'm afraid I am going to lose brain cells just by listening to them. I can't imagine having people like this as ILS, where I would have much more contact - not just large family parties where I can excuse myself after a quick greeting.
Your FIL does sound sick / messed up. I don't believe that people who don't talk about their abuse are necessarily more messed up than those who are open (I have never been abused, but definately keep more things private in my life), but the examples you provided are troubling.
Also, the "heavy lifting" I think was implying that his wife/fiancee was fat.
Many things going on here.
1 - Just because you are OK to talk about your abuse as a child, does not mean you should expect someone else to be OK to talk about it. You get upset that your FIL talks about kids transitioning into their sexuality, so it's unrealistic for you to expect him to talk about his own painful experience to family members. Should he have seen a shrink decades ago, or today, about it? Sure. Should he have to talk about his painful experience to you or his son? No. If he wants that topic to not be addressed, he has that right to privacy. You or your DH cannot be his psychologist.
2 - You have a right to not have your children be alone with him. However, you seem to be mad that he does not agree or that he implies that he'll go against your wishes. You and DH can have a game-plan, as in: you will continue to say "no" if DH's parents want time alone with your children. You do not have to give reasons. Trying to reason with an unreasonable man is foolish on your part.
3 - Your DH was emotionally abused by his dad as a child with that "M" next to the name business. Some religions preach that the act of "m" is sinful. Your FIL holds these beliefs to his core, and in his head thought he was upholding holy law. It doesn't make his actions right, but can help with your DH to heal. Your FIL also has core beliefs that a man should be the head of the household, and that being gay is a sin. I don't believe these things, but he has a right to his beliefs. You and DH have a right to tell him to keep his beliefs to himself, and that if he does not, then you will not visit, or the visits will be kept short.
My BIL is not religious, but is very cruel. He is a chauvinisitc pig. We tried to tell him to keep certain thoughts to himself, but he loves to try to throw his power around, and tries to say that my DH is a sissy for letting me have such a voice. There is no reasoning with him. I have known BIL for many years, and tried to reason with him. He has not changed. He still blames me for my DH not wanting to spend time with BIL -- it's easier for BIL to blame me than to accept that fact that DH genuinely does not like his brother anymore. So, we just see BIL now maybe once a year now. When we tried to reason with BIL, he would say that he is just "busting our b@lls" and that we should lighten up. I don't understand how BIL and my DH are related. BIL thinks he's right in what a man should be, but I think my DH is 10x the man BIL could ever be. DH is well-rounded, and one of his qualities of being sensitive and caring he will never be ashamed of.
You can't change him. I know that's frustrating, but this is who he is and he has a deeply ingrained religious construct to support it.That's not going to change by anything you can do or say.
If he continues to be mean and insulting, distance yourself from him. That what you do with jerks. Even when we are related to them.
Was he abused by a male? Does that play into his homophobia? I'm not surprised to hear about his history of abuse. Abuse and rape of boys/men are rampantly underly eported and cause some deeply seeded needs to be uber-controllers and strongly homophobics later in life.
1) I am not saying that he should talk to ME or my DH about it...but the fact that he has NEVER talked about it to ANYONE and has NEVER coped with it is why I say I am worried about him. Any therapist, psychologist, or psychiatrist will tell you that oppressing your feelings and never dealing with them makes victims of abuse more prone to repeat the abuse.
Also - I am NOT trying to change his beliefs, I am simply asking that he respect mine. He doesn't have to agree with them, accept them, or anything like that but saying I am going to Hell and I am an embarrassment because I have different beliefs is not Christian nor is is respectful. I am just frustrated with the situation because he can't respect me.
Anyway - that's all I wanted to add to your response because I think you misunderstood some of what I was saying.
I didn't tell anyone that I was abused for nearly ten years, and I tried to minimize my feelings and get on with my life. Just because something terrible happened to me does not mean now, and did not mean then, that I was prone to repeat what was done to me. I've worked with children for half a decade, and looking at their sweet little faces made me just want to protect them more. I would have NEVER hurt the children their parents entrusted to me. To be honest, working with children probably saved my mental health in a lot of ways.
I agree that supressing your feelings isn't healthy, but neither is judging someone who genuinely wants to just get on with his life. I hate to be snarky here, but do you have scientific evidence to back up what you're saying?
Honestly, I agree with Leigh2222 on all counts. You won't be able to get him to respect your beliefs, because for men like him, his are the ones that are right, and therefore he has a duty to transmit them. If he truly believes that you are going to hell and his value structure backs up that belief, then nothing you do or say will be able to dislodge it. Part of his nasty attitude may be that you know about the abuse.
My suggestion? Let your DH deal with him- and when you have to deal with him, do a lot of smiling and nodding.
I think all you can do is for you and DH to tell FIL that hot-topic discussions are off of the table because it causes too much tension, and that there are many other things to talk about.
My MIL is very overbearing with her religious beliefs, and for awhile I just don't tell her that my beliefs are different, because I know I will get an earful and she could even call me names and make me the black sheep of the family. If I have children, at that time I'll let her know my beliefs have changed, because I don't want her to preach to my children. (She's really over the top.) It's safe to say, at that time she will lose a lot of respect for me, and that is her problem.
We can't control how other people view us. Your FIL is bullying you though, trying to scare you into changing, and when he calls you names or says you're going to hell, you have every right to tell him that his behavior is unacceptable and end the visit and you and DH leave together.
And your FIL could very well think that he is being Christian by trying to uphold whatever beliefs he has, even if he is harshly imposing them on others. Nobody is going to win the battle of who is being more Christian because so many people have different viewpoints of their faith. If you start telling him how to be a Christian (like "hey be kind to me, FIL") then he might feel like the door swings both ways and he can tell you how to be a Christian. That's why I think the topic should just not be on the table.
He may forever think you are going to hell. Just like my MIL might think I'm going to hell when she discovers I don't share the same beliefs as her. Both are entitled to their opinions. I'll just shrug it off and tell her I don't want to talk about religion with her. For many years I'm used to her not genuinely liking me though. It used to bother me that we did not see eye-to-eye, but not anymore. I've gotta live my life the way I want to, and I can't give power to anybody else in determining what my happiness is.
I actually do have scientific evidence to back it up as well as personal. (I will look through my research on it and then give you the article name) My background is REALLY confusing but the long story short is my father committed suicide when I was 2 and my biological mom let me be molested and SAW it and then kicked ME out of the house when I was 5 years old for telling that I was molested. Anyway - I have an older half brother and a younger half sister. They were both sexually abused (my sister actually was pimped out by my mom for rent starting when she was 14). Neither of them has ever talked to ANYONE about it. Both have molested someone else. My brother molested another child while in foster care when he was 13-18 (went to prison for it) and then when he had a daughter he molested her too - she was taken away by CPS. SO - that is why I believe people who talk about it and deal with it in SOME cases are more likely to repeat the abuse that made them a victim to begin with.
I am NOT by ANY means saying that I believe ALL or a MAJORITY of the people who are sexually abused will abuse people themselves, however I am saying bottling stuff like that up does more harm than good. I totally agree with you, everyone heals in their own way.
People that are abuse often carry guilt and think its their fault. Plus, those who are sexually abuse struggle with how to deal with others and themselves in normal sexual situations. For me, I didn't allow people close to me physical - everyone had to be a arm length away. And didn't allow to be alone with any guy that wasn't family. My family notice the change and has been a great support while I getting help.
Maybe because your FIL was abuse, he worried that his sons are doing something wrong or weird.
Is English your second language? Because that was very hard to understand.
Also - I WAS SEXUALLY MOLESTED so you don't need to tell me about guilt and thinking it was my fault....even though I was SLEEPING when it happened.....yep - woke up to a man molesting me.......
I'm sorry that happened to you, and to your family. And I do think that bottling stuff up does more harm than good. But I will say that the only person who knows exactly what happened to me is my husband- and even then, there are some details I'll never tell anyone. It's too damn painful. I also saw a psychiatrist for years.My sister in law knows some of what happened to me- and she has never had a problem with me babysitting my nieces.
People who are abused are more likely to abuse in some cases, that's true. But some people who are abused don't abuse anyone else. Even though your siblings did- your FIL may not. Your mother was toxic- but that doesn't mean that your children will experience the same things with your FIL.
I wouldn't want him around my kids because he was EMOTIONALLY abusive to his sons, never mind anything else.