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DH and the homeless...
I haven't ever posted on this board, but decided I would come here to see what others think about this... Sorry, this is a super long post...
My DH and I go to church on a regular basis and try to be involved and help out the church or church members where we can. Well, for the past couple years there have been a few homeless people that have been coming to church. I sometimes question some of their sincerity, because every week we have a potluck after church and I think, for at least some of them, that is their initial reason for coming to our church. That is fine though because I feel that we (our church) should be there to help people out when they need a meal and be welcoming to them... but sometimes in other situations I think it can go a bit too far...
Here's the story.. The first homeless person that DH and I were helping on a somewhat regular basis started coming to church a few years ago, he has since been in jail and now has moved away so for the past year or so we haven't seen him around much, but in the beginning when he first started going to church we found out he was actually living out of a storage unit.
It was the middle of winter (and we live in a very cold climate) and he had no transportation. Different church members would give him rides to church every weekend, but many times it was my DH that would end up doing this. This particular homeless guy needed help with his laundry, so we offered to do a FEW loads of laundry for him. Well, DH went to go pick up the laundry and ended up coming home with about 6 HUGE lawn bags full of dirty clothes. I was a little surprised there was so much, but I did it because I knew he needed the help. It probably took me almost a week to wash, dry and fold these clothes for him (and cleaning/disinfecting our washer and dryer afterwards...not trying to be mean, but you have to look out for yourself and I'm a germaphobe...)
The next homeless guy also started talking to my DH because I think he had been told by the last homeless guy that DH had been helping him, so he knew that DH wouldn't turn him down.
Well, DH ended up offering the 2nd homeless guy a job (DH owns a business). The guy worked for him for maybe two weeks. DH had to pick him up and drop him off each day. DH complained about the guy being pretty much worthless at the job, and the homeless guy would always complain and ask several times a day if their work was done and if he could go home.
We had an old pickup sitting in our driveway that DH was no longer using, so DH decided that to get it out of our driveway, we would just let homeless guy use it so DH wouldn't need to be responsible for his transportation anymore. The homeless guy paid DH $200 to "buy/borrow" the pickup. Soon after this the homeless guy quit (which was pretty much a good thing for DH because he was causing more harm than good.) DH let him keep the pickup and the homeless guy actually ended up getting a different job on his own and eventually bought a trailer to live in.
The new job didn't last long though, and homeless guy is now (and has been for awhile) living in the trailer with no job and collecting unemployment.
Recently DH helped the homeless guy find a new vehicle, because apparently the almost free one that DH gave him wasn't nice enough (all along this guy still doesn't have a job, so I'm not really sure how he had money to buy a nicer pick-up... (he paid $2,000 for it I guess). The homeless guy then gave DH's old pickup back to him once homeless guy found a "better" one.
DH just sold the old pickup tonight and he ended up getting $800 for it. I reminded DH to deposit the $ in the morning, and he said "sure, but I need to give 'homeless guy' his $200 back out of this money." When I heard this, I was a little upset to say the least!
Homeless guy was using this truck for over a year. The reason why DH had "loaned" this truck to him was so homeless guy could have reliable transportation to get to and from the job that DH gave him, which homeless guy quit soon after.
DH helped this guy find the "nicer" truck. Transported him to a nearby town to check out the vehicle and purchase the vehicle (DH is knowledgeable about cars, etc), and then DH helped homeless guy get it into a friend of DH's shop to get the vehicle fully checked out and "tuned up" at a much lower price than homeless guy would have paid if he were to have taken the vehicle in somewhere on his own. All the while DH was the middle man between the guy repairing the vehicle and homeless guy, and during the period that the "new" truck was being repaired DH again provided transportation for homeless guy.
When I complained about DH giving back the $200 to the homeless guy, DH said that I am "greedy." To me, it's not the money, but the principle that DH went above and beyond helping this guy, that STILL doesn't have a job, is able-bodied enough to work and provide for himself, but instead spends his days sitting in his trailer doing nothing and collecting unemployment.
I told DH that if homeless guy actually had a job and was showing that he was working as hard as he could to provide for himself, I wouldn't have a problem giving him back the $200, but it seems to me this homeless guy is just becoming a leech.
I am so tired of being called "greedy" and "selfish" by my DH because I am finally drawing the line of helping this guy. I have been upset in the past and complained to DH for helping this guy too much, but DH always makes me sound like I'm a bad person for not just going along with this.
I better stop here because this is getting way too long, and I thank anyone that has gotten through all of this.
What do you think about this situation? Am I the crazy/greedy one here? I really don't see it that way, but am I missing something?
I am just tired of DH's focus always being on people like this that don't seem to ever get on their feet, and they just keep taking and taking with no appreciation. I feel like DH has invested too much in these relationships and I am really starting to resent him for it. When I tell this to DH he just comes back with the same lines that I'm selfish and greedy.
Re: DH and the homeless...
For starters, I'm sure that homeless people also have names, and just how you wrote about them and referred to them I doubt that you treat them with as much respect as your husband expects of you, which could be a part of the problem.
As well, he's not homeless if he's living in a trailer collecting benefits.
I think it's wonderful that your husband is going so far out of his way to help people in need, but it is unfortunate that you don't agree with his methods and this is causing problems.
What is it that you want out of this situation? Do you want him to stop helping these people? Do you not like this becuase you don't feel appreciated? Or because you don't feel that your husband is being appreciated? If your husband offered to do this guy's laundry, why were you the one doing it? And if you're that much of a germophobe, why not take it to a laundromat or better yet, give him some coins for a laundromat and a ride there and back?
Maybe sit down with your husband and talk with him openly about this, because I don't think you are being clear on exactly what about this is bothering you. Maybe set out boundaries and expectations with your husband on this - ie: we are able to offer XXX in the way of help to people in need. We draw the line at XXX.
However, there is also the thing about help being a gift and a gift should be given freely, not with strings attached such as how the person must/should show their appreciation of your gift, right?
Chronically hilarious - you'll split your stitches!
I wrote a book! Bucket list CHECK!
http://notesfortheirtherapist.blogspot.co.uk
Most are mentally ill and many are horders, as you can see.
If he likes to help people, he can go to a bona fide group and help there. Does your church have a group like that? Maybe your H can start one.
He can channel his energies that way.
There's also many groups that need help: other soup kitchens, the Salvation Army, homeless shelters.
Chronically hilarious - you'll split your stitches!
I wrote a book! Bucket list CHECK!
http://notesfortheirtherapist.blogspot.co.uk
Based on the way you posted this, I agree with your husband. As Tofu pointed out homeless people are people too. With names and identities and their own issues. The simple fact that you would assume they mostly go to church b.c. there is a potluck and they want food kind of makes me disgusted with you. Even though you go so far as to say its ok to share food with them. It sounds like $200 means a lot to this man and the truck/$800 does not mean as much to you guys. It would be different if you needed the $200 but you clearly don't. I respect your DH for being willing to help people, even when it costs him a little time or money. He is definitely a person worth knowing and being around.
To put it in perspective, DH and I both work in one area of community service that is really important to both of us, but especially me. We do have limits on the time and $ we can contribute. But, certain issues or cases come along that are really really important to me, that I literally cannot turn my back on. If my DH was asking me to walk away because what I did was already good enough it would be incredibly hard for me and make me question him as a person. I literally just called him and said, "someone called me about x and I cannot walk away" even though it is technically not our problem and will require a lot of us to resolve. DH told me that whatever I thought was the right thing to do, he would back me up.
I do think you're selfish. This isn't even requiring anything of you. Your DH wants to do something small to help another human being and you're begrudging him and this other person b.c. you think its too much work and might cost a little money, money that you have to spare. This man clearly needs help and its not for you to decide whether or not he is deserving. You clearly don't know him or his situation and don't care to know about him or his situation. I feel bad for your DH that he'll constantly have to explain the fact that he is a good person and feels compelled to do good things for others to someone who will never understand that sense of emotional responsibility or caring for others.
Actually if he bought it for $200, then its his truck to sell and her DH would owe him the full $800. Logical reasoning fail.
I will always remember in college, a homeless person asked my roommate for money, she ignored him, and he yelled at her "You're not better than me." Which she then complained to me about. And I told her the least she could have done was look him in the eye and acknowledge his as a human being.
You don't help other people b.c. you want acknowledgment or to feel good about yourself, you do it because its the right thing to do. If I had been born to different parents, without the same educational opportunities or with some kind of physical or mental issue, I could easily be "the homeless woman" with you doing my laundry. My Dad was like your husband and taught that to me at a very early age. I'm not better than anyone, I'm a hell of a lot luckier.
You make an excellent point and I can see the logic fail on my part. Thank you for pointing that out.
I'm stuck on the part where your husband accepted a week's worth of laundry from a homeless person, yet you ended up doing all of it and folding it, while he called you selfish for not being happy about it.
Did you ever read How to Be Good by Nick Hornby? It sounds like you (and a few responders here, to be honest) are like the husband, all goodness and light just for the Pharisee self-righteousness of it all.
What appreciation do these people have to "show" for you to approve of the help your husband provides? I mean they're people in need. I personally applaude your husband for having the heart of gold he seems to have I'm sure he didn't help these people expecting anything in return. I won't call you selfish and greedy based on what you posted here but you come off as a little jealous. Do you envy the amount of time or help he provides to him? Also, if he now has a place to live, he's moving up already. He's not the only person collecting unemployment nowadays. You need to have a talk with your husband about your own issues and not try to blame it on his good deeds. If he returned the $200 is probably because he needed them more than you did. You should feel blessed to be able to help those in need.
Judge not lest ye be judged right?
So without judging you, I wouldn't say you are selfish, I would say maybe you are more jealous that your husband is doing all this effort for these people in need. Do you feel bad that you aren't as hands-on helping as your DH? Maybe you are more of a "check-writer" for charity - I am. Nothing wrong with that. We need people who will do the actual hand holding that your husband does and others who can provide money. Some people do both.
I would say that your husband should give the person the $200 because he gave the truck back to your husband. Now if it had been clear in the beginning that the homeless person was paying $200 to rent the truck, then no. It doesn't sound like it was clear though.
Pay the $200 and sit down with your husband to get some structure to how much time/effort/money he should provide to charity.
I apologize, I did come off as kind of rude on my post.
The reason why I was referring to these 2 men as "homeless guys" was just because I didn't want to use names, but I agree that I could have used another word/name in that place.
Also, with the first man that DH helped, I happily agreed to help out with his laundry. I may have gone to a laundromat with his laundry once I got it, but when a whole car load of laundry arrived, I knew I didn't want to spend the next week in the laundromat so I decided to just do it at home.
And now that I have thought about it and read your responses, I do agree 100% that it's only right for DH to give the $200 back to the man. He didn't technically "buy" the truck from my DH, but it was more of a rental type thing and I didn't make that clear in my original post. But since he did give him the money, and he of course needs the money much more than we do, it should go back to him.
I have been supportive of helping these men all along, and because my DH was so helpful to this man, he was able to help the man move out of the homeless shelter that he was living in and buy a trailer/get a job (but he eventually quit the job, and still doesn't have one, so I'm afraid soon he will be back in the homeless shelter).
I was just trying to get to the point that I think DH needs to back down and let him take over and be responsible for himself. This man is a grown man, capable of getting a job which he does not have. Sometimes he will call our home and get aggravated with my DH because he was not able to provide him transportation on a particular day, or help in some other way, and that is probably the main thing that upsets me.
I do not expect him to show any kind of appreciation for what DH has done for him, but I would hope that he would at least not get rude and disrespectful as he has done in the past.
I also worry about safety, as we really don't know some of these people's full background, so that is kind of a big concern for me.
Anyway, thanks to everyone for your advice. I do see that I came off as rude and ungrateful, but I just wanted to clarify that I'm more than happy to share what I have been blessed with with other people in need. But, I also feel like once we have helped a person quite a bit and they are to the point where they can "spread their wings and fly," that we should try to help the next person in need.
Well, maybe that is a part that you need to discuss with your husband, and possibly a reason for your husband to start doing this formally through the church and not independently. The big issue seems not so much to be the helping, but agreeing on and enforcing the point at which these people need to stop relying on this help. Perhaps through your church your husband can set up a formal service offering which follows a defined number of steps and has a clear cut off point and boundaries, which would be outlined to someone in need before accessing the service?
That way, people are getting the help they need, your husband is getting a wider support network for his efforts (in a more secure environment, I would think) that, along with other members of the church could easily expand to include more employment opportunities, education opportunities, more service offerings, etc. and there is a clear and defined cut-off point, where these people can transition from recieving necessary help to get them back onto their feet to general pastoral support through what I guess becomes their own church.
That would stop the demanding personal phone calls to your husband for a ride here there and everywhere, give you (and your husband) a better sense of security and still contribute an admirable amount to helping people in need.
Chronically hilarious - you'll split your stitches!
I wrote a book! Bucket list CHECK!
http://notesfortheirtherapist.blogspot.co.uk
I agree with tofu. Like I said, DH and I have boundaries as to when and how we help and he helps me enforce those boundaries when I am tempted to take on more than I should. It sounds like the conversations you all are having about this are not productive, so definitely something to revisit or work on.
Joining a formal organization, having a set amount of $ and time you both agree is fair can help. I understand not wanting your DH to be taken advantage of.
Why not expect appreciation from the people that you help?! For the record I think that your feelings are vaild and not greedy or selfish. You and your husband attend church regularly you said, so I would try to appeal to his spritual side; Proverbs 9:9 (KJV)
Give instruction to a wise man, and he will be yet wiser: teach a just man, and he will increase in learning.Your H is a good man for helping these men, but he should be teaching them to be self sufficent and not leeches. Lead them to the water but he should have to tell them how to drink once they get there. Bottom line is it's too much! A year is way to long to be "helping" someone that is no longer helping it's sponsering!
I know I'm late here but I agree with you. I think your H is totally out of line to call you greedy and selfish.
I also got it that you were referring to them that way (homeless guy) because on these boards we make an effort to keep things anonymous. If you were telling a story about your coworkers, you would refer to them as coworker 1 and coworker 2 and I don't think anyone would have a problem with that. He is a homeless guy, that is why your H and you were helping him, I really don't get what is offensive about referring to him that way.
The guy that your H was helping so much, to me, sounds like he has a sense of entitlement. I would judge him for being given such a HUGE opportunity to get his life together by being given a job and transportation to the job, and then he complained about working, asked when he could leave, and didn't do much at work.
So, I'll disagree with the other posters and say I totally understand why you're frustrated with your H and I would be too.
By the way, I used to work with homeless people in Boston, I ALWAYS make a point to look a homeless person in the eyes and acknowledge them, and I know some of them. So what? That guy still sounds like he was guilty of being given an inch and taking a mile...