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Our tech team has launched updates to The Nest today. As a result of these updates, members of the Nest Community will need to change their password in order to continue participating in the community. In addition, The Nest community member's avatars will be replaced with generic default avatars. If you wish to revert to your original avatar, you will need to re-upload it via The Nest.
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Note: This only affects The Nest's community members and will not affect members on The Bump or The Knot.
Re: NYC Mayor putting formula under lock and key
Interesting! The locking it up part isn't so crazy I suppose, but it is degrading to make women sign a waiver like they're about to give the baby a bottle of poison. I do think that certain hospitals push the formla a bit harder than necessary though, and the free formula always irritated me. If these companies have so much money laying around they ought to lower their prices or give the stuff to women who actually want/need it.
I don't think it's anyone's business but the parents. I don't like all of this "you can't drink big cokes!" "you should BF your baby" business. I think it's fine if they want to educate new moms about BF'ing and the benefits and offering help. But, every time they bring you a bottle of formula they have to explain why it's better to BF and treat you as though you're doing something terrible? I don't agree with that strategy at all.
I agree. I was trying so hard at the hospital (magee) to get the bfing going and even the lactation consultant was pushing formula on me! They caused me a major meltdown but I stood my ground got a different LC who was helpful and I was able to bf.
But if you want to formula feed you shouldn't have to jump through hoops to get the formula. It's just formula for crying out loud. It's not like those people who put mountain dew in their baby's bottle.
First, this isn't a new idea. Hospitals all over the country have been limiting or disallowing formula marketing to new parents for years. This is just getting so much press because it is Bloomberg and everything he does must be about creating a "nanny state". I'm not saying that I always agree with him, but he has a ham-fisted way of creating policies that doesn't do his intentions any good.
Second, no where does it say that parents have to be educated about bfing everytime they request formula. It just means that there aren't going to be bottles of formula just sitting in the room, free bags from the formula companies or other freebies of marketing propaganda. Research shows that breastfeeding rates are higher when there aren't free samples sitting in the maternity rooms when patents don't ask for them. It is about improving breastfeeding rates, not about forcing families to exclusively bf.
Third, it is a voluntary program for the hospitals to follow. It is a set of guidelines, not a new law.
http://www.askmoxie.org/2012/07/the-illusion-of-choice-the-free-market-and-your-boobs.html
Discontinuing the freebie program is one thing. Keeping formula locked up and having to sign it out? Are you f'ing kidding me? I don't see how this is a good idea on any level.
I had the opposite hospital experience - when I had Garrett I was bf'ing, but asked some random nurse for a bottle of formula, when the nurse on shift found out, let's just say I ended up in tears. Bf'ing stressed me out incredibly and I forced myself to do it because I allowed others to make me feel that I would be a selfish, terrible mother if I didn't. When I did stop bf'ing, I could have really used some more support in transitioning from breast milk to formula, but that support never came unless it was in the form of trying to convince to continue bf'ing.
The resources and support should be available for all parents, regardless of their decision. I don't get why this isn't possible to do without forcing one or the other.
Moxie makes a convincing arguement (as always)! That was sort of my reaction -- is it that negative or is it just the way it's being communicated that's negative The only aspect of it that would really not sit well is the signing the formula out, but when I went back and re-read the article, it seems like that's a step the nurse will have to take, not the patient. All they need to do is ask for it (as in the example of asking for a Tylenol).
It sounds like the WHO's Baby Friendly Hospital initiative. The hospital I delivered at was one of them. We got no formula freebies, and BFing was very much encouraged. If you wanted to formula feed that is fine but you would have to indicate that and ask for formula. I was thankful formula freebies weren't around because dd had issues at first and I would have been tempted if it was around.
Obviously if you have to beg and demand for formula that is a problem but it sounds like they are just encouraging BFing and not allowing formula to just be everywhere. I realize people on the formula side don't want to be pushed to bf or made to feel bad. But on the BFing side I don't want to be surrounded by formula and pushed that way either.
This is from a different article that I read. FF mothers will have to be lectured before each bottle.
Under Latch On NYC, new mothers who want formula won?t be denied it, but hospitals will keep infant formula in out-of-the-way secure storerooms or in locked boxes like those used to dispense and track medications.
With each bottle a mother requests and receives, she?ll also get a talking-to. Staffers will explain why she should offer the breast instead.
?It?s the patient?s choice,? said Allison Walsh, of Beth Israel Medical Center. ?But it?s our job to educate them on the best option.?
http://nj1015.com/bloomberg-wants-moms-to-breastfeed-out-of-control-or-what-poll/
Why not donate what you don't want or won't use to a women's shelter instead of throwing it in the trash. Sorry, but you are talking about chemicals which leads me to think you are more "green" so why in the world would you just throw something away that is brand new? Someone out there can use the stuff you don't want.
Didn't you just call Mayor Bloomberg Judgey McJudgerson? Isn't saying that disposable diapers are full of "crazy chemicals" a little judgmental?
I chose to breastfeed. And I requested formula samples b/c we were having issues with latching in the hospital. Thus far, bfing has worked great for us and the samples were not needed. I don't think a woman should have to explain her choice to anyone. I would be very upset if I was lectured to b/c I chose to give Gabe formula.
My h, who is a nurse, thinks this may also be a ploy to be able to better track formula dispensing so that they can charge patients, in addition to the Latch On movement.
This is a pretty big deal in my area right now since a lot of NJ mothers use NYC hospitals to deliver their kids b/c they're "the best." I've already heard of a few pregnant ladies switching to NJ dr's b/c of this new initiative.
I nursed both of my kids past a year and honestly have difficulty understanding why a mom wouldn't at least give BF'ing a shot. In my mind trying and struggling then stopping BFing is totally different than not trying at all. I'm all for eliminating hospitals marketing formula and would support requiring parents to pay for the formula that they use while staying in the hospital (same as they'll pay every day that they choose to FF after being discharged). That being said, the lecture before each bottle of formula just seems wrong. IMO they should provide the data supporting BF'ing one time max, let the parents decide & let it go. It's the parents right to make the decision.
My 2 cents on the subject - I'm not concerned with, or the lack of, promotional items or that nurses would have to sign out the formula. I thought that would have already had to do that to keep track of inventory. My concern lies with the "talking to's" if that part is accurate. Even more so if they would occur with each bottle. I don't see anything wrong with talking to a new mother about both formula feeding and breastfeeding as long as it is to educate and not push one way or another.
We are just in another women's rights cycle in regards to breastfeeding. Each generation before us has gone through the same thing - it's just now our turn.
So diapers aren't OK b/c of the chemicals? What about all of the unnatural ingredients in formula?
Parents have the right to make whatever decision they want on both of these topics, but I'm not sure how you can judge parents for using disposable diapers and get so annoyed at the thought that there is judgement over those choosing not to BF???
If anything they should posts for mandatory breastfeeding classes, but at the end of the day its no ones business how a mother chooses to feed her child.
Breast is best but formula isnt bad either.
I was so head strong about BF, but with inverted nipples and the rough labor I had it made latching a nightmare. H only latched a handful of times and it was never consistant. LC arent exactly cheap, so this makes me kind of mad.
If it wasnt for Michelle ( Saffron) I would gave up a long time ago!
I read CCH's post as mainly pointing out the irony that there is a huge "war" surrounding breast milk vs. formula, but not nearly the same reaction surrounding cloth diapers vs. disposable. If there's such a stand on bf'ing, is there going to be an agenda on what foods we push when we're done breastfeeding? Will we be making it harder for parents to feed their kids non-organic foods?
What I hate the most is that everyone always says "Happy mom = happy baby"....yet there is always the judgement there of "why can't you just try harder?". Whatever happened to people minding their own business? It's really such a shame that things like this are such debatable topics. Why anyone cares - or thinks it is their place - to have an opinion on basic decisions that another parent makes for their child, is confusing to me.
Isn't that interesting? I was thinking about that as I read the replies in this. It's like we can only focus on one angry debate at a time:P ETA - that sounds all wrong - I meant as a general population there is no huge debate over diapering. Not this post in particular. Carry on:)
I agree, though, that bottom line - people should mind their own business. As long as a baby is thriving, that's all that matters.
sorry, i didn't mean to come off as judging, because clearly i really don't. i meant it in a way that if he's going to take a radical stance then why is he stopping with the coke and formula? why not just keep on trucking and pushing for everything under the sun that someone has deemed to be the "right" thing to do?
and i'm actually not green at all. we're CD'ing to cut costs, reduce blowouts and diaper rashes. i will say though that when i began researching CD'ing and learned that the same stuff they put in diapers is the same stuff they put on pads/in tampons, i did cringe a whole lot over the thought of using that stuff myself. but it's not enough to make me stop. now, if the products weren't working and causing me rashes/infections, i might reconsider. but since that's not the case i think my brain can forget about it.
i actually don't care what other parents do in the least, as long as they are providing sufficiently for their child(ren). but i did notice that someone acted offended that they receive things from their dr's office plastered with the similac name and was merely pointing out that i receive stuff plastered with the pampers name but that it doesn't bother me, it's just not something to be irked with.
i don't agree with the gov't yet again trying to step in and force a behavior that they perceive to be "right". this encompasses many things.
I totally agree. I had such mommy guilt when I stopped breastfeeding at 6 months for the first, 4 months for the second instead of a year. society made me feel like I was doing such a bad thing. But the truth of the matter was my body was so out of wack (ppd, period issues...) I felt like a mess. After I stopped bfing all my hormone levels when back to normal. I felt like my old self again. So, I should have been happy but I had (still do) so much guilt over the whole thing.
That was me. I'm not offended. I just think I should be able to go to the pedi without being "sold" something. If I get a free sample at a store or in the mail it doesn't bother me, I just won't use it. But Formula, diapers, whatever shouldn't be allowed to advertise at hospitals and pedi offices.
I will chime in that I care because I work in public health and did my masters thesis on BFing. But what I care about is that women aren't given the support and help to follow through on the choices they want. I'm sorry but I do think removing formula samples is a good thing but a better thing is adding more LC support and more support post Partum at home and at work (maternity leave, pumping at work laws, etc) The moxie article was great. If formula companies want a prescience in hospitals then pay for some LCs.
I certainly don't think lecturing a formula feeding mom is a good idea. But what's wrong with giving everyone info and research on BFing? Not everyone has access to the research not everyone has taken a class or knows anything at all about BFing. Give them the information to make a choice rather than just having free formula sitting around. And if one chooses to formula feed then they can request the formula like they would request more Tylenol, diapers, pads,etc.
Andi would have no problems if hospitals felt cloth diapers were a healthier choice if that's all they provided and gave me info on them.
Personally I see BFing as part of a health decision. It has health impacts on baby and mom so I do see why a hospital and hospital staff should care. There are plenty of other personal decisions I make that I get lectured on about from medical community. Granted the mommy wars from other moms is a different issue. But i do see why hospitals and medical community should care. But like I said we need to focus on helping and supporting women.
I can understand the argument that government should stay out of these issues, but I don't think debating (or discussing) is wrong. I learn so much from hearing opinions from other moms. For instance, the RFing debate was a hot topic when Lanna was a baby. Now that Wes is here guidelines have officially changed, but if people had minded their business and not spoken up about the benefits of extended RFing a lot of parents wouldn't have known that it was even an option 4 yrs ago. And I learned way more about the benefits of BFing from other moms (many on this board) than I ever did from someone employed by my hospital. I think that expressing an opinion can come from a place of wanting to share knowledge or just explore a topic deeper, not necessarily from a place of wanting to argue or bash another person's choices.
I know, instead of looking at the big picture, people focus in on one issue!
Although, I guess I shouldn't be surprised, since breast feeding has to do with a woman's control and choice over her own body, so naturally it's up for debate and up to other people to get involved!
I absolutely agree with you - obviously I think it's great to have constructive conversation about topics like this, where we're all willing to share our opinions and personal experiences, even if it means maybe having an uncomfortable conversation or disagreeing. My point was directed when it does come from a place of arguing or judging/bashing another person's choices (ex. I rear face because of X, Y, Z ...not why would anyone forward face because of X, Y, Z) which I think we have all seen too often in this new world of social media, etc.