Politics & Current Events
justAphase
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America is the 12th most prosperous country in the world.
Behind Switzerland, Sweden, Denmark, Norway, Australia, New Zealand, Canada, Ireland, and The Netherlands
These countries have nationalized healthcare, broad social welfare programs, higher taxes, and more regulation than the US.
This isn't new information, I just wanted to hear y'alls thoughts. Especially with all the Republicans so hell bent on cursing the Liberals for ruining this country with the very things that seem to have made so many other countries great.
Eta: fixed the title
Maya Avery 3/2011
Re: America is the 12th most prosperous country in the world.
It is funny you posted this because I was just discussing it with DH.
I love the Scandanvian countries!!!
But, you forgot one thing - none of them have a military so therefore they can monetarily afford to have nationalized healthcare and schools as well as a host of other nationalized programs.
That sounds nice. I'd like that, I guess, but what happens if they got attacked or invaded? It could happen - one doesn't know what Russia is up to or would do in the future decdes. Especially now that they may be getting in closer with Iran.
Also, the world relies on the U.S. for humanitarian aid that often comes from our military. We go in to help the little guy/gal when he/she is being killed or bullied by a murderous dictator.
You say that these nations are so great, but do you want to not help those in need around the world - saving people from genocide, starvation, neglected women's rights, etc.?
To be like Sweden, for example, we'd have to cut our military. But probably also our intelligence, terrorism programs and other pretty valuable and sought after resources.
I envy their educational programs being so top in the world, but I still like us helping others in need.
I am editing in: There is a trade-off. We cannot afford to be like these nations AND have the military and intelligence that we do.
You are right, I wouldn't want to be without a military, but ours does not need to be so large, IMO. I don't think being without a military is solely why they are prospering though. I do think it has something to do with those things mentioned in the OP. And of course I wouldn't want to do away with helping other countries.
I admit though, I'm not extremely knowledgeable about European nations, which is another reason for this post.
Also, now a P&R since my kid is up.
Eta: spelling. iPad is not looking out for me.
ML, I would be really surprised if the math works out that you can either have a military or nationalized health care, but any combination automatically leads to bankruptcy.
Americans pay for health care one way or another. We currently have a system that makes it cost A LOT more than it should.
Um...yes they do have militaries. Canada's military is the 14th largest in the world. France's is the 5th largest, and their healthcare system is considered the best in the world. Norway spends approximately $7 billion each year on its military. Sweden spends almost $6 billion on theirs.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_military_expenditures
It's kind of sad to me that conservatives generally adopt the attitude that "this is AMERICA!!! We don't shy away from hard work, we're not intimidated by tough problems, when we face a challenge we find a way, dammit."
But then you bring up the need for a safety net and they're all like, "Food, shelter, and health care for everyone? What, do you think we're made of money? I feel bad for them too, but you can't have everything. Let's just move on and give the military another $2 ttrillions that we can outspend EVERY country in the world COMBINED. The poor will just have to figure it out for themselves."
Where's the problem solving? The creative solutions? We'll buckle down and find a way to send a man to the moon, but we refuse to find a way to make sure our children go to sleep with full tummies?
It's fcuked up, dude.
Or you could take Switzerland's health care system, spend 3% less of your GDP per year on health care, or 4.5% for France's or Canada's systems, etc) and save billions of dollars a year. You'd have the same military, fix your overly expensive health care system, and could put billions of dollars towards education, which would pay off by having a younger generation that is well prepared for life.
Or wait, even though it's the economically responsible thing to do, you're against it.
Health care costs by GDP in different countries: http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/hea_tot_exp_as_of_gdp-health-total-expenditure-gdp
Dude are you stupid? Not all countries listed are Scandinavian. Plus WTF do you think is part of Americans alliances in Afghanistan and Iraq (plus everywhere else there's been a American war presence) - the ANZACs or the Australian and New Zeland armed forces have a strong military presence esp. considering there overall small population. It's good to know our war casualties don't count.
Plus helping in need? Where the hell was America in Timor? Or PNG? Do you need a map to find these places?
Don't be silly. We're both clearly from Scandinavian countries that don't have militaries. All of the Remembrance Day stuff this weekend is just for show, not because the ANZACs & Canadians/Newfoundlanders led the final push in WWI or because their casualties by population were huge for countries that were thousands of kms away from the action. I also am going to assume that all of the debates about whether or not we should join the US in Iraq, everything about Afghanistan, and the massive debates about [PM] -Harper's military spending were lies because, DUH, we totally don't have a military.
/sarcasm
The ignorance in the original statement is astounding. Clearly she hasn't seen a map, understand the costs associated with different options, or have a clue about what the rest of the world does. If it wasn't for the American military we would clearly be steamrolled by the Russians/Chinese/whoevers. I mean, screw other alliances, the Commonwealth, and other countries having vested interests in wars that are taking place in other areas of the world (oh, so ironic).