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Twitter & Hate & Red & Blue & Slavery
(Long post. But, please don't respond until you've read the entire thing). TIA.
I think the Tweets shared on the previous thread, remarks from random people (not Nesties) about hating Obama for his skin color, reveal a deplorable aspect of our society.
I also want to add that Tweets occurred going the exact opposite direction, making hateful remarks about Romney's Mormon faith and inciting the idea of assassinating him if he were elected. Not a race issue, but it's definitely the same vein of bigotry.
We have some very, very small parts of our country that feel these ways, in either direction. Both are wrong.
But, we have a choice too. I think that by recirculating these awful words to one another, we are just propagating an atmosphere of hatred in our nation.
It is absolutely a gross stretch of the imagination to assert that the Red States reflect racism and hatred.
When you drive across the "red" U.S., which as some of you know, I have done extensively, you run into small towns of 311 or 149 people, plip-plopped on the map separated from one another by vast corn fields, expansive, rocky mountain terrain, and hot steamy swampy feeling forests and marshes. It's down home America. Just quiet. Not racist. Apple pie. I think that you would find many of these people to be the kindest, most patient citizens we have in this nation. And, racist isn't an adjective I'd use to describe them en masse. Yes, there are pockets...pockets like the size of a few houses here and there.
You can't look at an election result map and say, "There. There the red - it shows all the haters." The blue cities are full of gang bangers, drug lords, and all types of miscreants who hate - love to kill, love to rape, love to cause families heartache, love to break the law.
Hate is everywhere. You just can't pull a few Tweets from the Obama "camp" or the Romney "camp" (and I use the term "camp" very loosely) and claim racism.
We need to remember history and learn from it - and also have a heart for those whose familial ancestors suffered in slavery. But please keep in mind that the people living in "red" states in 2012 aren't slave owners and their families probably weren't either, back in that era, yet they are being treated as if they are due to the place they have decided to settle their families and make a livlihood for themselves.
Also keep in mind that a lot of current citizens' ancestors in this nation came to the U.S. in the early or mid-1900's - after slavery was ended. This isn't a free pass to forget this ugly and dark chapter of American history, but we can't enslave people, who had nothing to do with slavery, with guilt for something they had no control of or involvement in.
I've been reading about William Wilberforce, William Pitt, and the whole lot of British that got slavery disallowed in the British colonies (which happened before it being disallowed in the U.S.). The stuff that slaves went through was just gut wrenching...makes me puke in my mouth. We cannot forget.
We do need to talk about another kind of slavery, though. And, this kind, we CAN ALL feel guilty about and do something about. Sex trafficking. Human trade - is alive in this country. We need emancipation for the young girls and women caught up in it, many/most not by their own choice.
I can't go round and round anymore about an era gone by in American history that is now over. I encourage you to stop 'finding" racism. We have a twice elected non-white President. A host of non-white people serve in every branch of our government. The doors are opened to everyone who wants to be involved in something.
I'm saddened by the racial/religious hate speech I've read from both political sides. Now would be a really good time to band together, and as Americans, refuse to participate in the propagation of hatred, and help the sexually used and sold.
Re: Twitter & Hate & Red & Blue & Slavery
I do agree that I'm not comfortable with broad stroke assumptions. I grew up in a small rural 'red' area. Racism didn't exist there. I don't agree with the principals I was raised on and my family is rooted in, but they aren't hateful people. I just happen to disagree with them on social issues.
Hate on both sides is counter-productive. I am hoping now that the election is over, we can all move on and heal. This was a very divisive election. We have too much at stake to tear each other apart.
Are you a minority? I am asking seriously. Because I am Black and I think you would be amazed at how racism is still a major problem. When I drive around the country, I am not free to stop in these little places because of literal fear for my life. The KKK...um yes. Police pulling me over for no reason. My husband (he is white) is able to go into a store and not be followed but I can't. I am sure everyone is not like this but please do not say that I have not experienced this or need to get over it. This is not history. This is something I live everyday.
If you are white, why would they be racist to you? or harass you?
Also..."The doors are opened to everyone who wants to be involved in something." IMO this is clearly wrong. The doors are open to women if they want to make less and as an EEO Officer, I can assure you that the doors are not open to everyone in every company. Affirmative action is alive and truly needed. Try applying on-line for a job (which most companies do now a day) if you are blind. How are the doors open for them to apply? Unless companies but special software on their websites, these people can't even apply for jobs. Veterans have a hard time getting jobs as well as minorities. I have had managers asked for applications to be pulled from certain zip codes only in 2012. How is that EEO?
You can't really think that we can overlook racism and just focus on human trade, do you? or that eeo is no longer needed because we already have met that goal. Maybe I a miss understanding you.
ML, I agree with many of your sentiments. And I'd like to point out that some of the most segregated cities in america are in northern blue states. Racism is not simply a red state issue.
However, I think it's dangerous to declare racism a problem of the past and move on. Minorities are still very much discriminated against - from birth they have higher rates on infant mortality, in adolescence they have significant achievement gaps, in adulthood they're paid significantly less, and at end of life they have shorter lifespans. Now this isn't all due to individual racism, but systematic racism is nothing to sneeze at. It should be taken seriously and not forgotten about because we have a black president.
I am a white female. I am a Christian - the active, practicing type who gets made fun of, laughed at, whose intelligence gets unjustly disqualified in a debate for believeing in God, and whose beliefs are belittled and ridiculed.
I got fired from a job for requesting to not work on Sundays as it is my religious practice to not work on that day even though I made myself available to work every other day of the week.
I have a small "Jesus Fish" on my car and have been mistreated on the road by other drivers. In addition, my dad has experienced some side ways glances due to his Italian heritage although he LOOKS white.
I will never, ever claim to have it bad, though - as being beaten, killed, raped or used in some other way due to a skin color is far, far worse.
I have experienced my own forms of bigotry, so I know the feelings - the sadness and the pain. Shedding tears over it, etc.
We can't overlook racism; that's not my position at all. But I think we need to see that it backs people into an awful corner and it is going every which way. Maybe if we just refuse to propagate it through ideas of "deserving" things or finding it in every little situation, like electoral maps, we can get it to lessen. Things have a way of disappearing when they aren't given any credence.
You know that Christians are not a minority in the United States, right? The rest of us are regularly asked to live by your rules. In many ways, Christians oppress those of other religions in America. I know you don't want to believe that, but unfortunately it is the case.
"We can't overlook racism; that's not my position at all. But I think we need to see that it backs people into an awful corner and it is going every which way. Maybe if we just refuse to propagate it through ideas of "deserving" things or finding it in every little situation, like electoral maps, we can get it to lessen. Things have a way of disappearing when they aren't given any credence." Quoting myself to reemphasize a few things.
Mrs. GK: I currently live in the Twin Cities area. However, I moved here from the Cincinnati area (actually we lived due south of that city across the Ohio River in Kentucky, but for others' reference points, it's easier to say Cincinnati instead of Northern Kentucky as not everyone is familar with the geography there), before that we lived in a suburb of Denver, Colorado. Before that, I lived in and went to college in Richmond, Virginia. But, I was born and raised in a highly racially diverse suburb of Cleveland, Ohio.
My family lives in Florida, New York, Pennsylvania, Washington, Vermont, Iowa, and Arizona.
You are correct. Officially. There is actually a significant distinction to make, however.
There are "Christians" who are living secular "Christian" lives - celebrate holidays (but it's Santa and Easter Bunny not Jesus Birth and His Death/resurrection), may have their kids baptized, but don't practice the faith daily through devotions, prayer, church weekly, Communion, Christian fellowship, etc.. They are not active in their faiths. And, their religion is defined by what they do on a seasonal basis. (I'm not passing judgement on this - just stating it as a fact).
And, there are Christians whose lives indicate that they know they are sinners, saved by grace, through Christ's death and resurrection. It's a daily practice - a daily walk - a daily relationship. There isn't a time that they aren't followers of Christ.
The latter group, is a minority in our culture - this is a new development, just because people are moving away from all religions in general and Christianity, in particular, to try out new things, be more progressive, or whatever you want to call it.
It isn't widely known, as mainstream media doesn't cover it, but there have actually been Christians fired from jobs for their faiths, told they can't do certain things like prayer on their own in schools, asked to remove necklaces, shirts, and other things important to them but the same isn't required of other people for their faiths or worldviews. A school in California cancelled its entire brick fundraiser, which would have brought in over $40k to the school, because a lady wanted to have a Bible verse enscribed on her brick that she was paying for for the walkway. Other bricks quoting other ideaologies weren't questioned. Graduating seniors' speeches have been edited or axed altogether in schools if they mention God as part of their educational journey/important to them. I was fired from my job for asking to have off Sundays but be available any other day of the week.
Because this nation has its base in Christian thought, there is a pendulum swinging away from that direction - an avoidance and an effort to stiffle it in favor of promotion and acceptance of other faiths. I have to qualify that statement.
Other faiths are fine. They need to be encouraged and have their place and voice in our culture. Christianity doesn't need to be the only voice of the land. T
There are those of us who are Christians on a daily basis and we are finding our society turning to pursecute us, pressuring us to conform, ridiculing us, and laughing at us. For those of us who are daily practioners of our faith, we are a minority now. It is very rare to have a set of orthodox beliefs in this age and society.
Maybe you might call it pay back. LOL. I don't know.
Yeah, I get you. I get you because I was one of you, once, and I also thought I was persecuted because other people wouldn't let me preach to them constantly.
As someone who actually is of a minority faith group in America, believe me when I say, No one hates you because you are a Christian unless you are trying to convert them. When people hear what I am, they become enraged, violent even, scared. My own parents can't talk to or look at me. I'm regularly blamed for all kinds of things that have absolutely nothing to do with me, because ya know, all those Atheists are hateful jerks who want to take away the Ten Commandments and the flag and stuff.
I know what you mean about feeling like you're discriminated against, though I sincerely doubt your boss was specifically firing you because you were a Christian; s/he likely just had someone else in mind with better availability. My boyfriend lost his job for something similar really recently. He couldn't work Saturdays (because he had another job) and they told him not to come back. So I get that. I work at a public University, and my non-tenured, non-Christian faculty members cannot discuss their faith or lack of faith outside of work, for fear that it might effect their tenure. I dunno if you remember this, but a few years ago a large Humanist group put out billboards in several large cities across America that simply said "Good Without God." They inspired outrage, including threats of violence, in my home state.
No one says you should be killed because you're a Christian, no matter what kind of Christian you are, not here. Other countries, sure, but not here. I'm not saying that you can't feel like you are persecuted, but your faith does not make you a target in America, and it certainly cannot compare to being a racial minority. Implying that it is so is offensive to people who do suffer at the hands of systemic and personal racism.
Are you aware of what happened in the United States in the early and mid 1900s? I really encourage you to look up lynchings, the KKK, Jim Crow laws, the Little Rock Nine, race riots, George Wallace ("segregation now, segregation forever"), the 16th Street Church bombing, to name a few, if you really think that slavery was the only dark chapter of racism in American history.
Did you know when Alabama finally officially legalized interracial marriage? It was 2000. Not 1900, not 1800. 2000.
By November 2000, interracial marriage had been legal in every state for more than three decades thanks to the U.S. Supreme Court's ruling in Loving v. Virginia (1967) - but the Alabama State Constitution still contained an unenforceable ban in Section 102:
The Alabama State Legislature stubbornly clung to the old language as a symbolic statement of the state's views on interracial marriage; as recently as 1998, House leaders successfully killed attempts to remove Section 102.When voters finally had the opportunity to remove the language, the outcome was surprisingly close: although 59% of voters supported removing the language, 41% favored keeping it. Interracial marriage remains controversial in the Deep South, where a 2011 poll found that a plurality of Mississippi Republicans still support anti-miscegenation laws.
Here is a really good article that I hope will help you understand why racism is not over in this country, even if lynchings are no longer common:
http://voices.yahoo.com/african-americans-racism-inequality-prejudice-2064260.html?cat=9
If you think Christians are discriminated against in modern America, then I want you to try and imagine what real discrimination is like. I'm not saying that modern white Christians are never discriminated against, I'm saying that they're probably one of the rarest if not the rarest target of discrimination.
I also wonder if the "Christians" you refer to would be insulted by your quotation marks. Who are you to determine what is or isn't Christian enough? Because quite frankly, I would argue that the true Christians you're referring to aren't really Christian if they oppose gay marriage, abortion, weed, nationalized health care and most of the other things I'm sure you think makes progressive Christians just "Christian."
I understand that you think society is trying to make you conform, ridiculing you, and laughing at you for things related to your religion. But let me assure you that I (and most posters I know on this board) don't care if you're Christian, jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, agnostic, Druid, or anything else. But if you come to conclusions that cannot be backed up with fact, sound argument, and logic - then they will call you out in it. I don't care if you're a believer, I care if you're a reasonable thinker who's willing to reverse course when wrong and explain your position when right.