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Filing for divorce-- Question about kids
I've posted here a few times before about problems with my husband-- we've been going to counseling, but things have really come to a head this week and he announced he wants to separate. I'm fine with this.
We had plans to travel to the mid-west to see his family next week-- obviously that's not happening, at least not for the four of us. He is saying that he is still going and taking one of our sons with him.
We have a one year old and a two year old. My husband has never spent more than 5 hours with either of them since birth. Never had them alone overnight, never for a weekend... he's never even given them a bath before. So the though of him taking EITHER of them halfway across the country by himself is making me hysterical.
I don't want to deny him time with his kids, I just want to give him time to learn how to take care of them before turning them over to him-- an overnight one night, a weekend, etc. Just something before a 5 day trip-- I've never been apart from either of them for that long.
He says he's taking one, I'm asking him not to. I calmly listed my reasons why I was uncomfortable with it, he doesn't think they are valid reasons. I thought about just taking the kids to my parents while he's at work on Monday, physically preventing him from being able to leave with them on Tues, but I worry what he might do in retaliation, so I don't think this is the best idea.
A lawyer friend suggested that I go ahead and file for divorce on Monday, with an injunction that he can't take the kids out of state. Has anyone done this? Any idea if it would be approved quickly enough to prevent him from leaving on Tues or Wed with the kids? I have no idea how this works and won't get to speak to a lawyer until Monday.
TIA!
Re: Filing for divorce-- Question about kids
Do you really want to start your divorce off with this?
honestly he is a grown man and he can figure out how to give your son a bath. he is not going to be alone he will be with family and they can help him out.
What I really wanted was a husband who is kind. Instead, what I got was an verbally and emotionally abusive man. What I really wanted was a husband who would be a good provider. What I got is a man who can't keep a job and spends irresponsibly. What I really wanted was a husband who was truthful and humble. What I got was a man who lies every chance he gets. And what I really wanted was a husband who would be a wonderful father-- but what I got was a man who intermittently interacts with his children, knows nothing about them, ignores their needs whenever they are inconvenient and uses them to impress people when he feels like playing super-dad.
So, yes. I really want to start my divorce off with this-- putting my children and their safety and well-being above all else.
One would think so... yet two years in, he still hasn't cared to figure it out.
That's what I'm doing. As their mother, it is my responsibility to make sure that they are safe & well cared for. I do not believe my husband is currently capable of those things, even though our kids enjoy being around their dad.
I appreciate your opinions, ladies, I just don't share them. Perhaps if you knew my husband you'd feel differently. Regardless, I was able to get in touch with my lawyer late this afternoon and I have more information about my rights and options.
OP, your 2nd post really makes me agree even more with PPs.
You're so mad with your husband right now that you are using your kids as leverage. He didn't give you what you wanted from him as a husband, so you aren't going to give him what he wants which is to take his son on a trip with him.
I'm sure your husband is not going to let anything happen to your son. Like pps have said, his family will be there to help him. It may be hard for you to be away from you son, but this is what happens when you divorce and kids are involved. Sorry, but put your pain on the back burner and let your son spend time with his father.
TTC since September 2012
Funny how after baby #1 he was a good enough dad and father to have another child with...and then bamm all of a sudden he isnt capable of gving a bath.
This will come back to bite you in the ass. Funny how the abusive shi%^T didnt get mentioned until people told you were wrong.
You picked this man to be your H and father of your child ...now he has as many rights as you do.
The second child was an accident. We were already discussing divorce after the first child. We had fertility problems, didn't think we could get pregnant on our own & ended up getting pregnant the 3rd or 4th time we had sex after my first son was born. I can assure you that I was only having sex with him at that point to avoid arguing even more.
I don't have to lie to a bunch of internet strangers about my "abusive sh*t." You don't believe the situation I'm in? Good for you.
You're exactly right-- he does have as many rights as I do. Likewise, I have as many rights as HE does. So, just because he wants to take one of the kids somewhere, doesn't mean that it automatically happens because HE wants it. I'm the other parent, and I do have a say in this.
I haven't actually made up my mind yet about what I'll do-- I spoke with my lawyer and the injunction would take a week or so to go through. He suggested that if I really have a problem with my husband taking my son out of state, that I remove the children from our home and take them somewhere else so that my husband cannot take them without my consent. That is my legal right as their mother. Do I plan to do this? Unlikely. Ultimately, I do not want to deny my husband time with our children-- what I do want is time for him to learn how to actively parent our children before he travels halfway across the country with them, alone. However, there is not enough time for this.
Likely, what will happen is that I will consent to let him take our oldest for a limited period of time-- 2, maybe 3 nights. If he is to take him, there will be a agreement reached regarding when they are leaving, when they will return, when I may speak to my son, etc. He may not get to stay as long as he would like & I may not get to spend Thanksgiving with one of my children. This is how divorce goes, I guess.
You don't agree with my feelings? That's fine. I posted this on a public forum and I can handle the feedback-- I've got my big girl panties on. But if you read the post, my question was not, "Do you agree with me?" It was, "Do you have any experience with this?". I'm guessing the answer is no.
OP- You sound so defensive and upset. I think that is why you are getting the responses you are getting. You don't sound like your main concern is that you think that your son will be in harms way, you sound like your anger is toward your husband and how the marriage ended.
" I can assure you that I was only having sex with him at that point to avoid arguing even more." What? You've got issues.
TTC since September 2012
Clearly-- the biggest one being my husband. I know it's probably hard to understand when you've been married all of 4 months, but some couples go through phases where one partner is uninterested in sex, but still participates in order to fulfill the other partner's needs. It happens.
Seriously? You ask strangers for advice and then attack people that give it. So what if she has only been married for 4 months? I've been married for 5, together for 12 and I still think your view on sex is warped.
I agree with the pp that asked if this is how you want to start off your divorce, trying to keep him from taking his children to see his family? I think that you are being unreasonable here, he is their parent just as much as you are and should be capable of taking care of a 2 year old for a week. I don't like being away from my kids either, but if you are divorcing this is something that you are going to have to get very used to.
Chronically hilarious - you'll split your stitches!
I wrote a book! Bucket list CHECK!
http://notesfortheirtherapist.blogspot.co.uk
I asked for advice from people who have gotten a TRO (temporary restraining order) before-- I asked how that worked. I never asked for people's opinions about whether or not they believed my husband was capable of caring for our kids or whether this is the right decision. But that's what I got, so that's what I'm responding to. I haven't attacked anyone. I've responded honestly to comments like "Do you really want to start off your divorce like this?" and "You've got issues."
Again, yes, I really want to start off my divorce doing what I believe is best for my children. I've stated numerous times that I don't want to deny my husband time with our children as we move forward with a divorce. We'll obviously have shared custody. But for now, as of this week, he is unprepared to care for either of our children on his own for an extended period of time. So many of you keep asserting otherwise, which I find so odd, given that you've never met either of us. I'm glad that you are so confident in the parenting skills of a man you've never met. I wish I shared your confidence in him.
And as for sex, I'm guessing you've never had sex when you weren't in the mood? You're a lucky girl. But I'm pretty sure that participating when my husband asks, even if I'd rather not, doesn't make me "warped." I'd say complacent. (At 4 months into our marriage, I never thought things would be like this.) Perhaps you should ask what kind of man wants to go through with having sex with a woman who is clearly not interested. The answer is, one I won't be married to much longer.
You'll be happy to know that I'm no longer warped over my sex issues-- I started flat out refusing to have sex with him over six months ago.
Thanks-- it's nice to hear from someone who's been in the same situation. I'm so glad that your ex-husband agreed to compromise on the trip so that everyone was comfortable with the arrangement! My husband's family has met our 2 year old once (when he was six weeks old) and they have never met our one year old. So, why the urgency now, this week? I think that it should wait until the dust settles a little and we have a custody agreement in place that provides him with plenty of time (and practice) with our boys. But unfortunately, that may not be how it goes...
You're welcome! Yes there is a lot of emotion and anger in the beginning and that is reason enough to not take your child across country alone. You have no idea what your husband may do...like my ex did in the beginning....he threatened to take my son away and to never let me see him again. The beginning of a divorce can get nasty and a lot of hateful things can be said so I would completely wait until custody has been established before ANY of this is done. In my situation my lawyer advised me to stay in the house and "try" to be "normal" for the kids sake and get the custody agreement figured out and signed before either one of us moved out of the house. It really is in the BEST interest of the child AND you. It's the SMART way to do things because you really don't know what your husband is capable of. You want to say you trust him because this is the man you married and at one time were happy with...yes...BUT things are different now and you can't just trust that he's the same man. In my case, my ex turned into a nasty nasty person (which deep down I knew he really wasn't) but in a divorce a lot can get said that later you don't mean. My ex and I are pretty civil now and get a lot pretty good but in the beginning NO WAY and there was NO WAY I was letting him take my son across country. I'm glad that he at least agreed with me on that. We waited for the dust to settle and once that custody agreement was in place before big vacations like that were took.
Lurker---
I would say no, not because you are upset, because this is the process of divorce and there are no orders. What if he decides to stay there and keep the child? I am not saying that is it what he will do, however, I have heard of it way to many times. If you are in the process of divorce the children stay until some orders are in place. Also, why does he only want to take one? This sounds like my sister situation, she is divorcing her H and he only wanted to take one child, hmmm the one that is sick and getting SSI. Not saying that is the case here, but people change when divorce is on the table.
Goes back to lurking.
Your guess would be wrong.
Your big girl panties must be very tight fitting since you are very angry toward everyone and their opinions. Your story keeps changing, and you seem to think you know all the answers to your own questions and seem to think everyones experiences are untruths. If you think your not being nasty (as you stated) you clearly are in denial. Your comments to others are smug and make us question your motives with good reason.
Good luck to you and him. You certainly will have issues handing over to some level of control to their dad. I suggest counseling for you, you could use it in helping you deal with that difficult issue.
If he was abusive as you stated you should have plenty of documentation for the courts to use against him.
So you have experience with TROs but just didn't feel like answering the questions I asked?
I'd love for you to point out where my story has changed. It hasn't. I've given you additional details about my situation as the comments have required it-- and the longer this discussion goes on, the more you will find out. I can't list every detail about my life in one short post.
I'm not angry towards anyone here-- but if you question me as a parent and insist that I don't know what's best for my own kids, I'm not going to roll over and play dead for you. There's a difference between being smug and being confident. I know what's best for my boys & I never asked anyone's opinion about that.
I did not know the answers to the questions I posted about the speediness of a TRO-- that was my question. Some people felt the need to comment that they believe what I'm doing is wrong (and that's their right) but it's not going to change my opinion. I didn't post to ask people to help me decide how I feel about this. And it seems like maybe that's pissing you off.
We are both already in counseling and I have more than enough documentation regarding his abuse between the 3 marriage counselors we've seen in the past 4 years.
I'm going to go against the grain here and say I agree with OP. Part of her decision might be spite, maybe. But I'd be really concerned about two things: 1 - Like she said, her husband has never really had to "parent" the kids. 2 - There is no custody agreement. I'd be scared as hell he'd keep the boy and not come back.
OP - I don't have ANY experience with this whatsoever. But, perhaps a compromise... if you feel uncomfortable with your husband taking the boy along, but you don't want to/don't have time to get the TRO, could you make the trip with them? You could stay at a nearby hotel, check in from time to time. Is that a conceivable solution?
I thought so and suggested it to my husband a few days ago, but he quickly shot it down. 1) He said we're not paying for a hotel for however many days (Ha! Like that's his sole decision?!) and 2) He said he wouldn't let me see my son the entire time we were there. So, I guess that's out.
I have been reading this post and feel compelled to respond.
You are digging your heels in on this thing with your kids dad.
As you have so eliquently stated - (you think) you know what is best for these kids. You have a "right" as their mother.
Well, that's fine.
Every time you try (or successfully) keep your kids from their dad - you are putting a wedge between their relationship. A mothers job is to foster that relationship. Period.
Do you honestly think their dad would hurt either of them? Really? I dont see anything in your posts that says that. maybe he won't put them to bed, feed, wash and dress then exactly as you do, but that is your new reality.
You are going to be spending:
Nights during the week
Entire weekends
Weeks of vacation
Apart from these kids. Minimum.
Dad wants to feed them pizza and ice cream every day? Done. Dad thinks they only need a bath every couple days? Done. Dad thinks a winter coat isn't needed or sandals are ok in the rain? Done.
You aren't going to be there.
And if you are successful getting them no/little visitation. Your children will resent you for ruining their relationship with their father. Even if you wail about how you were "protecting them".
Time to wo-man up!
You have to let go that they won't be cared for like you would - he won't hurt them and they will be ok.
Your responsibility as a mother is to foster their relationship with their father.
You picked him. Time to make the best of it.
When you've been married this long, you need a ticker to remind you.
Baby Boy M - 08/01/2013
I agree with a lot of what you said.
I do not plan on trying to keep my kids from having a relationship with their dad. I do not plan on trying to limit his visitation. I do not think that my husband is incapable of caring for our boys in the long run. What I do think is that is that he just doesn't have the experience that he needs at this point to take care of them the way they deserve. He'll get there... I just don't believe that you can go from doing nothing in regards to your children's care to knowing how/when to do it all by yourself.
While I am certainly a control freak, my concern (believe it or not) is not that he'll do things differently than me (I know that he will & yes, it will be hard for me)-- It's that he won't do them at all. Left alone, he's put our kids to bed without feeding them, without changing their diapers, etc. on more than one occasion. That's not fair to my children & I can't sit back and let that happen.
self described control freak or not, you are radiating anger and over the top protectiveness of your kids just in this online post (settle down, before you lash out at me for that think about how a judge is going to perceive you if this is how you come across just online) and this is something that may hurt you in the long run.
If you are really going to go for a TRO against your husband being alone with your children and/or taking them to visit HIS PARENTS out of state, you're going to have to come up with a bit more than him forgetting to change their diaper before putting them to bed. And what does it mean that he doesn't feed your kids before putting them to bed? I just don't view that as either active child abuse or putting your child in danger. Not feeding them for an entire day, you may have something. But forgetting a bed time snack or just forgoing dinner? Not exactly TRO worthy in my book. It's very he said she said, and he has as much right to his kids as you do. I obviously don't agree with what you are doing, but if you are going to go ahead I think you need to A: prepare yourself for a world of pain and retaliation and B: drastically strengthen your case.
But I don't have experience with temporary restraining orders against my husband because I didn't marry an assclown and continue to have children with said assclown and have deteriorated my life to your exact condition, so my opinion is invalid anyway.
Chronically hilarious - you'll split your stitches!
I wrote a book! Bucket list CHECK!
http://notesfortheirtherapist.blogspot.co.uk
Yes, I have experience from working in the family court system and seeing these cases everyday. I can assure you that noters from your counselor will not stand up in court as evidence that he is unfit. When I say documentation I mean police reports/medical/CPS reports, those are the types of things that MAY get you an order. Even if you had those things and they were about you and not the kids, they still may not grant an order.
Your story changed from he cant change a diaper to he is abusive. I'd say that was a pretty big change! Didn't you think that was a relevant fact regarding an order from the court? When we all didn't jump on your train THEN it became part of the story. Him not changing a diaper was a bigger factor than abuse? You managed to mention that in your OP.
If you dont think you are angry towards anyone you better go back and visit that counselor again. I can tellthe difference between a confident answer and a smug one, but nice try. The only thing pissing me off is your lack of willingness to look at what people are saying because it isnt what you want to hear. a lot of us around here have had plenty of experiences dealing with this kind of thing and were trying to warn you about what the consequences are in doing such a thing. i told you before and Ill tell you again, this may come back to bite you in the butt. If you go into court now with a weak case, when you go back to finalize your divorce it will backfire on you. But hey im just saying that because I want you to roll over and play dead.
Sometimes it is easier for an outsider to see the picture as a whole and how emotions get the better of us sometimes.
If you had come here and in the OP said ....my op is abusive and neglectful of our children and he wants to take them away....many of these responses would have been different...but that is NOT what you said...and still havent.
This will be my last response because there is no use talking to you since you have made all the best choices.
Radiating anger? Hardly. A bit of sarcasm perhaps, towards people who insist they know the parenting capabilities of complete strangers.
Perhaps you should re-read my previous posts-- I said,
"I haven't actually made up my mind yet about what I'll do-- I spoke with my lawyer and the injunction would take a week or so to go through. He suggested that if I really have a problem with my husband taking my son out of state, that I remove the children from our home and take them somewhere else so that my husband cannot take them without my consent. That is my legal right as their mother. Do I plan to do this? Unlikely. Ultimately, I do not want to deny my husband time with our children-- what I do want is time for him to learn how to actively parent our children before he travels halfway across the country with them, alone. However, there is not enough time for this.
Likely, what will happen is that I will consent to let him take our oldest for a limited period of time-- 2, maybe 3 nights. If he is to take him, there will be a agreement reached regarding when they are leaving, when they will return, when I may speak to my son, etc. He may not get to stay as long as he would like & I may not get to spend Thanksgiving with one of my children. This is how divorce goes, I guess."
That means I'm not getting the TRO. There's not enough time. Would I have done it if all of this had started a few days earlier and I could have gotten in it place? Absolutely. But there's not enough time. Will I include it when I do file? Probably.
My husband and I had a long discussion last night--- my concerns about this trip have been documented, a list of requirements was presented to him in order to have my consent (but NOT my blessing) for this trip, and an agreement was signed. If any issues come up, my lawyer will get a copy of all of this.
(BTW, he's taking our son to his sister's, not his PARENTS, where my kids have never even been before. His mother is dead and his father saw our son once when he was 6 weeks old. His family has not been involved in our children's lives what-so-ever.)
And as far as my deteriorating life, I am finally trying to do something about it by moving forward with this divorce. I married the wrong man and two beautiful boys resulted from it. I don't regret it-- my kids are the best thing that's ever happened to me. But instead of sitting back and taking his bullsh*t for another 6 years, I'm moving on. Be glad you're not in the same situation. It's not easy.
You simply misunderstood.
My husband is NOT abusive towards our children-- neglectful, maybe and certainly absent. He IS abusive towards me. (And yes, our counselors have record of that abuse.)
Since my original post was regarding my concerns about him taking care of our kids, I didn't feel the need to provide you a laundry list of everything he's done to ME. I can, if you'd like. Or feel free to search TN archives and find the posts where I've already done this-- there was a good one back in July.
Again, that's not changing my story. That's providing you with additional details about my life.
(And you can read the post above to see what I'm actually doing in this situation.)
So by the logic in the bolded portion, first time parents of newborns shouldn't be left alone with their babies, either, as they just don't know what they're doing. Maybe if you had made him bathe his children, or left him with them more early on, you wouldn't have this fear hanging over you.