I really don't understand this argument

cincychick35 · December 2012

lasposa425:
cincychick35:
LexiLupin:
cincychick35:
LexiLupin:
cincychick35:
I have several liberal pro choice friends who will defend a woman's right to choose to their death....but do not support late term abortions. Most of them say it becomes a grey area when the fetus is viable.
Precisely my point. Just as you'll be hard-pressed to find a lot of pro-choice liberals who support late term and partial birth abortions, I think you'd also find a lot of avid gun supporters who draw a line somewhere, be it with assault weapons or fully automatic weapons or somewhere else. Very few things exist without limitations at all, and I think these are the types of issues where most people agree that limitations are a good thing, even if they can't agree what those limitations should be.

I am not saying we need to have a gun free for all. There should be limitations. I don't have a problem banning assault rifles, I don't have a problem with background check, waiting periods or mandatory training. I simply think there is more to the story than gun control. I also fear knee jerk reaction legislation which is hastily passed in response to a horrific event.
We, as a society, are given a constitutional right to bear arms and I don't want all people to pay the price for the sins of others. I believe that most (not all) people who own guns are responsible, law abiding citizens - they should not have their right to bear arms taken away.
I give up. I completely and utterly give up.
How many different ways can the idea of restrictions be discussed without the "other side" interpreting as the "right to bear arms taken away"? THIS right here is why no productive conversation can come of this. Why is it flucking punishment to allow someone to own a hunting rifle and a handgun but not a military-grade assault rifle?
We are given a constitutional right to free speech; this does not give me the right to libel, slander, or yell "FIRE" in a crowded movie theater. Nowhere in the 2nd Amendment does it say "right to bear any form of arm ever invented." You have no right to bear nuclear weapons or hand grenades or land mines.

This isn't a knee-jerk reaction to a horrific event; it is a cumulative reaction to dozens of horrific events. Dozens of horrific events that no one has done anything about.
You want to see a knee-jerk reaction, look up Australia and the Port Arthur Massacre. Incredibly knee-jerk reaction.
And yet in 16 years since, Australia has never seen another comparable incident.
Lexi, I agree with what you are saying. And YOU may not want to completely do away with guns but there are some people who are crying for that.
As far as the knee jerk reaction, yes any legislation that if passed in the next few weeks would be a reaction to the most recent horrific events.
All I am saying is that I would like to see some time taken to consider all the causes of these types of horrific events and what is the BEST course of action that will truly have an impact in keeping these things from happening in the future. Basically, I would rather wait and come up with helpful legislation versus passing bad legislation right now which may not really help in the long run.
And how many more innocent lives must be lost before we take any action? It can take years to analyze "all the causes". People have been analyzing them since Columbine in 1999 and before. You'd rather wait longer...really? We've already waited too long -- too many lives have been lost. Shame on all of us. How many more of these events have to occur before we finally wake up.

Yep, you're right...let's pass something right now, today! Who cares if it will be effective - at least we're doing SOMETHING...right?

lasposa425 · December 2012

cincychick35:
lasposa425:
cincychick35:
LexiLupin:
cincychick35:
LexiLupin:
cincychick35:
I have several liberal pro choice friends who will defend a woman's right to choose to their death....but do not support late term abortions. Most of them say it becomes a grey area when the fetus is viable.
Precisely my point. Just as you'll be hard-pressed to find a lot of pro-choice liberals who support late term and partial birth abortions, I think you'd also find a lot of avid gun supporters who draw a line somewhere, be it with assault weapons or fully automatic weapons or somewhere else. Very few things exist without limitations at all, and I think these are the types of issues where most people agree that limitations are a good thing, even if they can't agree what those limitations should be.

I am not saying we need to have a gun free for all. There should be limitations. I don't have a problem banning assault rifles, I don't have a problem with background check, waiting periods or mandatory training. I simply think there is more to the story than gun control. I also fear knee jerk reaction legislation which is hastily passed in response to a horrific event.
We, as a society, are given a constitutional right to bear arms and I don't want all people to pay the price for the sins of others. I believe that most (not all) people who own guns are responsible, law abiding citizens - they should not have their right to bear arms taken away.
I give up. I completely and utterly give up.
How many different ways can the idea of restrictions be discussed without the "other side" interpreting as the "right to bear arms taken away"? THIS right here is why no productive conversation can come of this. Why is it flucking punishment to allow someone to own a hunting rifle and a handgun but not a military-grade assault rifle?
We are given a constitutional right to free speech; this does not give me the right to libel, slander, or yell "FIRE" in a crowded movie theater. Nowhere in the 2nd Amendment does it say "right to bear any form of arm ever invented." You have no right to bear nuclear weapons or hand grenades or land mines.

This isn't a knee-jerk reaction to a horrific event; it is a cumulative reaction to dozens of horrific events. Dozens of horrific events that no one has done anything about.
You want to see a knee-jerk reaction, look up Australia and the Port Arthur Massacre. Incredibly knee-jerk reaction.
And yet in 16 years since, Australia has never seen another comparable incident.
Lexi, I agree with what you are saying. And YOU may not want to completely do away with guns but there are some people who are crying for that.
As far as the knee jerk reaction, yes any legislation that if passed in the next few weeks would be a reaction to the most recent horrific events.
All I am saying is that I would like to see some time taken to consider all the causes of these types of horrific events and what is the BEST course of action that will truly have an impact in keeping these things from happening in the future. Basically, I would rather wait and come up with helpful legislation versus passing bad legislation right now which may not really help in the long run.
And how many more innocent lives must be lost before we take any action? It can take years to analyze "all the causes". People have been analyzing them since Columbine in 1999 and before. You'd rather wait longer...really? We've already waited too long -- too many lives have been lost. Shame on all of us. How many more of these events have to occur before we finally wake up.
Yep, you're right...let's pass something right now, today! Who cares if it will be effective - at least we're doing SOMETHING...right?

Yes! Something has to be better than nothing. At this point, sadly, I believe that to be true. We're already too late...but better late than never. I respect you and your opinion...I am just very passionate about mine and I feel a sense of responsibility, as I think we all should, for what has happened and what continues to happen.

swhaehns · December 2012

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wq4DU5KE5eI&feature=youtube_gdata_player

Watch this video, great points!

lasposa425 · December 2012

swhaehns:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wq4DU5KE5eI&feature=youtube_gdata_player

Watch this video, great points!

Ugh - don't get me started on the Huckster. I don't agree at all with his opinion. Again, I respect that he has an opinion and he is definitely free to opine but I wholeheartedly disagree. I am a practicing Catholic but I don't impose my beliefs on others. I believe his thoughts to be disrespectful to the acts of heroism that went on in that school. I offer this in response (it's not a perfect response but it makes excellent points in my view):

http://educatefortexas.wordpress.com/2012/12/17/an-open-letter-from-a-pta-mom-to-mike-huckabee-a-message-for-those-who-long-for-gods-presence-in-schools/

GeraldoRivera · December 2012

vlagrl29:
The cabella's in our area already stopped selling guns. I heard that walmart is selling guns like crazy right now because everyone is afraid of the ban of assault weapons coming soon. I think society has changed a lot since we were kids. you never heard of this crap when we were elementary school. The first school shooting I heard of was Colombine back in 1999 when I was a freshman in college. Sure you can blame the gun laws, but really it's not only that. It's partly society and partly the mentally ill not getting what they need. guns use to freak me out. DH has a few in the gun safe in the basement. when we were dating it always made me nervous and I really didn't want it in my house when he moved in but it went straight to the basement and I totally forgot about it. I've changed my mind about guns in the last year. I want to learn how to shoot, so over our xmas break we are going to the shooting range. I think it would be fun and also a smart idea for me to learn how to handle a gun.

This is so, so weird to me. "I've been hearing about all these shootings, like the 20 6 year olds killed by an assault rifle and a dozen moviegoers killed while watching a movie, and I thought 'hey, learning how to shoot a gun sounds like fun!""

I'm sure you didn't mean it that way, but it just sounds...odd to me.

Anyway, the "well, they'll just find another weapon anyway!" argument is totally absurd. This is like saying "Well, if we don't let civilians have hand grenades and RPGs, they'll just find something else!" So, we might as well let everyone have guns because they'll just get them anyway? "Well, murderers are going to murder anyway, so what's the point in having laws against it?"

CoffeeBeen · December 2012

LexiLupin:
CoffeeBeen:
lasposa425:
Lexi--Yes! Yes! Yes! Your response is spot on.
Lexi is my personal hero. ILY, girl.
It's okay; another day, another debate, and I know you'll all go back to crushing on Geraldo.

No ways, I can crush on both of you. There's enough P&CE love to go around!

chelljqueen · December 2012

LexiLupin:
cincychick35:
LexiLupin:
cincychick35:

I have several liberal pro choice friends who will defend a woman's right to choose to their death....but do not support late term abortions. Most of them say it becomes a grey area when the fetus is viable.

Precisely my point. Just as you'll be hard-pressed to find a lot of pro-choice liberals who support late term and partial birth abortions, I think you'd also find a lot of avid gun supporters who draw a line somewhere, be it with assault weapons or fully automatic weapons or somewhere else. Very few things exist without limitations at all, and I think these are the types of issues where most people agree that limitations are a good thing, even if they can't agree what those limitations should be.

I am not saying we need to have a gun free for all. There should be limitations. I don't have a problem banning assault rifles, I don't have a problem with background check, waiting periods or mandatory training. I simply think there is more to the story than gun control. I also fear knee jerk reaction legislation which is hastily passed in response to a horrific event.

We, as a society, are given a constitutional right to bear arms and I don't want all people to pay the price for the sins of others. I believe that most (not all) people who own guns are responsible, law abiding citizens - they should not have their right to bear arms taken away.

I give up. I completely and utterly give up.

How many different ways can the idea of restrictions be discussed without the "other side" interpreting as the "right to bear arms taken away"? THIS right here is why no productive conversation can come of this. Why is it flucking punishment to allow someone to own a hunting rifle and a handgun but not a military-grade assault rifle?

We are given a constitutional right to free speech; this does not give me the right to libel, slander, or yell "FIRE" in a crowded movie theater. Nowhere in the 2nd Amendment does it say "right to bear any form of arm ever invented." You have no right to bear nuclear weapons or hand grenades or land mines.

This isn't a knee-jerk reaction to a horrific event; it is a cumulative reaction to dozens of horrific events. Dozens of horrific events that no one has done anything about.

You want to see a knee-jerk reaction, look up Australia and the Port Arthur Massacre. Incredibly knee-jerk reaction.

And yet in 16 years since, Australia has never seen another comparable incident.

Lexi you are dead on!!!!! Bravo!!!!!!!

sandsonik · December 2012

cincychick35:

Gun control doesn't give us freedom from getting shot by some crazy with a gun. Where there is a will, there is a way and even if guns were totally outlawed the "bad guys" would still find a way to get their hands on a gun.

What if the bad guy is your husband, only he's not always such a bad guy and maybe he'd never hurt you before, or wouldn't have if there weren't a gun?

Statistics show that male homicide victims are mostly likely to be shot outside their homes, by someone they know. For women and children though, they are killed in their own homes - by someone they know.

Having a gun greatly increases your chances of dying by gun.

When people use the phrase "Bad guys", they always mean some stranger - who in all reality, might like your money, but doesn't care enough about you to kill you.

We know the bad guys. We are the bad guys.

I really don't understand this argument

Re: I really don't understand this argument

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