Trouble in Paradise
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Our tech team has launched updates to The Nest today. As a result of these updates, members of the Nest Community will need to change their password in order to continue participating in the community. In addition, The Nest community member's avatars will be replaced with generic default avatars. If you wish to revert to your original avatar, you will need to re-upload it via The Nest.
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Rough patch turning into a rocky patch...
This is my first post, though I've been reading through some of what others have said. I hope that I don't repeat anything, and apologize if I do.
We've been married nearly a year now, and have been together for several years. My husband had a really bad point a while ago when he was laid off from his job and didn't know where to go. So we sat down and came up with a plan: I would support him through school since I had a steady job, and he would focus on the degree and help out with housework/cooking. Issue #1: He's reached the end of the degree, and he never started his thesis. We talked, we argued, I encouraged him to change his topic or talk to his advisor, and even tried to back off for about 6 months and pray that he did something... but nothing happened. We've had to take out significant loans to account for gas/food/bills/the fact that he hasn't had a job since starting school, and I've been bringing in money through my job as best I can to balance it out. He's currently away for military training and that stupid thesis doesn't even have an outline, and he refuses to either talk to his advisor to find a solution or quit the degree so he can get a job and just pay it off. Issue #2: He wants to have kids soon and move elsewhere, which are both things that I want, too. But if he hasn't finished his thesis, I'm the only one working, and we have this large pile of loans, how in the world is that even possible? It would be completely irresponsible in this economy for me to just up and leave my job to have a baby and/or move somewhere without any assurance that we'd have a place to live or a job, right? Issue #3: He doesn't want to talk about things that are embarrassing, or fix them when we finally do talk about them. He's not all that spectacular with money, and he is, in his own words, "a hedonist" and it's embarrassing to him. I've had to bail him out when his account's in the red, which is the reason that I haven't combined our bank accounts: he doesn't pay attention to what he's spending. I also didn't know exactly how much in loans he'd taken out until 2 months ago, because he always evaded or just tossed a random number at me. Further, he started fine with the housework/cooking part of the deal he made, and I help out when I can, but my job requires long hours (10-12 a day) and sometimes I just want to go home and go to bed. But more often than not in the last few months I come home to find things piled everywhere that wasn't in such a state when I left that morning, or dishes or left everywhere, or the poor dog is whining at the door to go out and do her business. This last one is the absolute worst, because I desperately want a clean home and for us to have good habits for when we have kids, but if he can't be bothered to stop what he's doing to do something as simple as let the dog out or put dishes in the dishwasher, what will it be like when we have kids? I'm sorry this was so long, but I really need some advice. We promised to be partners, and there are times when we are and he's the most wonderful, caring and considerate person on earth, but this is something that has been stewing for a while without getting better. Please help us.
Re: Rough patch turning into a rocky patch...
It honestly sounds like he's gotten himself into a rut and is probably depressed. I second him seeking counselling.
You both should also consider reading some financial help books. Dave Ramsay, Suze Orman and David Bach are all very popular over on the Money Matters board.
It's not an option for him to sit around and pout like a petulant child, he has to be a grown up and talk these things out with you because it's important. You can't keep going further into debt, you need a plan and a course of action.
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I knew the depressed card would be thrown out there quickly.
Funnt how he wasnt depressed all through school....only when it was tme to do his thesis.
Id also liike to know why you married a man who you knew have issues with jobs and money? you thought it would change after he said i do?
Stick to #2
You have supported both of you for years and now he is palying games and acting like a 2 year old. F that@
Tell him to get is act together in the next month or go home to mommy.
Do you want a man or a child the rest of your life?
I'd give him the benefit of the doubt and assume it's depression.
But if he didn't get help and fix it REAL fast...I'd show him the door.
It's essential he speak frankly about all issues with you --- and that you are not even on the same page with money is dangerous.
He also has to rememvber he is no longer a single guy who can spend his extra money on whatever he wants to spend it on.
You and he now have an OUR MONEY situation. And that's what he's got to understand.
A lot of this is immaturity on his part --- no counselor can get him to grow up and be a responsible adult.
If he can't talk about this problem, what will he talk about with you?
wow. i'm sorry, but i don't agree with the 'why did you marry him, he needs to grow up' suggestions.
we marry these men for a reason, right? we vow to be honest, faithful etc... and yet then we turn around and are impatient, resentful and in some cases hateful?
i dont think so.
as sad as it is, our men might not have been as well trained as us to do all these wonderful life-balancing tasks. my hubby didn't really know how to manage finances, or create to-do lists. he had a haphazard method that worked for him, but wasn't going to work for our family. so, i had to teach him. that's not a fault.....that's creating a partnership. he's taught me things as well -- like home and car maintenance, safety and preparedness.
OP -- it sounds like your hubby has hit a wall, both motivationally and with his life vision. this WILL happen from time to time - especially around life-changes (graduation, weddings, etc)
he knows where he wants to be (house, kids, etc), but can't get there. Help him out, wifey! you mention that he avoids embarrassing situations. does he also avoid tasks if he's unfamiliar with them, or isn't sure if he can complete them well?
my hubby is a self-proclaimed perfectionist, and he will get very uncomfortable when he has to do something he's not sure he can do perfectly. it will take him WEEKS to complete the task and its painful for him to do it (hence the avoidance). most of the time all he needs is me to sit down with him for an hour and talk out whatever project it is - help him brainstorm, etc. your hubby's situation sounds familiar to me.
I understand your frustration and impatience with him....but please put that aside for a couple days and truly try to understand whats going on in his head....and be sympathetic and encouraging to him. he needs a partner, not a mom.
issue 1: sit down with him and talk about school. ask how things went, and ask about his thesis ideas. does he have any? is he having trouble coming up with something? is he embarrassed because of this? is it just too big of a project and he's intimidated by it? find out what the issues are, and help him come up with ways to work through them. perhaps you both can sit and brainstorm thesis ideas, or do some research online.
issue 2: noooooope. don't have babies. don't move (unless its to a cheaper location). if he asks/complains about this, then hop to issue 3:
issue 3: he needs to be forthcoming with all of his finances. reassure him that you are not there to judge him or yell at him or scold him or anything. you're simply there to help organize and teach him how to manage his money. hubby didn't do this very well, and i taught him how to at least save his receipts so that I could look at them later and keep track of his spending. slowly, he learned, and now saves everything and has a decent handle on tracking his spending. all of your billpaying and loans should be written down or the info filed in a cabinet. ORGANIZE this stuff NOW. have him work alongside you by at least gathering the info that he has. teach him how to file things. This is a good weekend project.
explain that in order to have nice things, and to indulge in the 'fun', or start to have a family...there is a certain standard that needs to happen. you need to be financially secure. reassure him that you can work TOGETHER on this, and that its not entirely his or your responsiblity. every few days (or when the bills show up), sit down together and go through everything.
the rest of the house-chore lazyness could just be the depression/rut 'im home all day every day' syndrome. hours pass very quickly when youre unmotivated!
bottom line. he needs your help. he needs you to be patient and to help him learn (or re-learn) the skills of what it takes to be successful and motivated. Praise him along the way. let him feel your support and encouragement. reassure him and let him know that you appreciate his effort and that he's doing good things that will help your marriage and your financial situation. be positive as much as possible. yes - it will be a bit exhausting, and you might feel silly or think he's a 5 year old... but in the end, hubby will be back on his feet, and (hopefully) thank you for being there for him.
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Yes, follow this advice because we all get married and turn into mothers. That's it! Teach your man child husband how to be an adult and grow up!!
Okay I'm done with that. Honestly, sit him down and spell it out for him. We did X so you could do Y and we could have Z. Until you finish and do X & Y, I'm seriously questioning our marriage and the future. He needs a wake up call ASAP. It's not right that he expects you to carry the load.
As to the messy house, tell him nicely that you will no longer be picking up his slack. It's a team effort to keep up with house chores and he is slacking. Next time you come home to piles of crap, gather it all up, even the dishes that he used & put them in the front seat of his car. Or on his side of the bed. Or in his closet. Whatever works and when he says something, just smile and explain that he seems to be having vision issues so you put it all where he can find it. I have found this to be very effective in getting the point across.
Bottom line. he needs your help. he needs you to be patient and to help him learn (or re-learn) the skills of what it takes to be successful and motivated. Praise him along the way. let him feel your support and encouragement. reassure him and let him know that you appreciate his effort and that he's doing good things that will help your marriage and your financial situation. be positive as much as possible. yes - it will be a bit exhausting, and you might feel silly or think he's a 5 year old... but in the end, hubby will be back on his feet, and (hopefully) thank you for being there for him.
In other words, more or less enable him to do what he did --- relearn the skills? This guy never had them in the first place and why is it his wife's lookout to teach him what's a given and common sense?
I am not a neatnik but somebody who can't even pick up after himself is unacceptable. What does it take to clean up your dishes after you eat a snack, put your dirty clothes in the hamper, dust up in the living room even if you don't see any dust at all -- to name a few examples?
He'll thank her? Nope; this will either be an unending cycle of squalor or they'll be a blow up because it'll come to a full boil with him; his wife is mommying him.
This is another home where his mother did every single thing for him. He makes a mess; she cleans it up for him and nobody bothered to teach this guy how to take responsibility. There used to be days way back when when kids had chores: picked up after themselves, kept their room clean, set the table, helped with dinner and so forth. Parents now do it all for the kids and this is why there are so many stunted still-in-middle-school husbands. The wife cleans up after him; he got another mother and not a wife.
His money issues used to be a minor thing, and he'd talk things over with me before making big purchases. He had a steady job for a while before school, but since he started the commute was making it hard to even go to a part-time, so he left on good terms with that one to focus on the degree and help with the bulk of the housework.
It honestly feels like the closer he came to the end of the degree and "thesis time," the more he started to disconnect and procrastinate/be lazy.
This helped to hear, partially because some of it is already happening. I'm trying to sit down and teach him these things; the hard part is making them stick. I'm wondering if he's a closet perfectionist, because any sort of gentle reminder or question about "how'd the to-do list go" or "can I help you proofread your thesis today, did you get anything done?" either makes him mad or I get the brush-off.
I'm not a confrontational person, but I do admit to having a complete panic attack when I realized just how much in loans we'd accumulated and gave him a huge tongue-lashing. Deserved? Probably. Did I feel good afterwards? Oh no.
I like the receipts idea, as well as the piling clothes/stuff on his side of the bed
He's the WORST about leaving his dirty clothes and stinky sports gear EVERYWHERE and it's awful.
I've hounded him to talk to me for a long time about things, especially since he's done the very exact same thing to me for my flaws.
It kills me, though, to see him go out and buy a brand new video game that I'll want to play too, but I can't, because I'm working all day and sometimes have to go into another room and continue working while he gets to play, or I have to go to sleep because I have to get up early the next day.
The normal excuse for not wanting to talk is "I don't know what's wrong with me, what do you want me to tell you? I just don't know." I've told him that that's not going to fly and we have to sit down and fix it together, and he shuts down. Maybe I'm saying it wrong or not approaching it correctly (entirely possible), but I don't know any other way to address it than "SPIT IT OUT," essentially.
My parents raised me to be extremely money aware, considering we've been at rock bottom before when I was much younger. I can't seem to get that mentality or even basic awareness to translate over to my husband.
You sound like a very sweet person and wayyy too good for your husband sorry to say. I agree with not holding his hand anymore and being blunt with him. Could he be doing this intentionally to get out of the marriage? I say it's either that or he is lazy and selfish/used to you doing things for him. There is no reason that he can't get chores done. He simply chooses not to and play video games instead.
Please do not have a child with this man (at least til he proves himself for a solid couple of years)!!
Wish you the best. GL!!!
I love your posts! You are always spot on imo.
I agree with Tarpon. Your husband is a grown ass man, no need to babysit or hand hold him...
I never ever post on this board but I do lurk from time to time. I just want to tell you that my friend's husband is just.like.this. They have three kids and she works full time while he "gets himself together". He has been "getting himself together" for 15 years now. He never finished any of his degrees, he doesn't help around the house, he barely watches the kids. Sometimes he will get a job and it will last for a few months before he decides he's finished with it.
Every time she thinks they are doing well and finally going to be able to get by, he tanks again. They are almost $100,000 in debt between his school loans and daily bills.
My advice based on how you have described yourself (you sound just like her) and him, is to not end up like my friend and her husband. Don't have kids with him, don't support him financially (don't cosign anything, don't bail him out when he's in the red), when the house gets crazy messy go stay with a friend until he gets his sh!t together. Do whatever it takes to make him take responsibility for his actions. If he still refuses, leave. It will consume your entire life if you continue to let it happen.
Counseling or leave. If he refuses to talk to you, refuses to finish his thesis, refuses to get a job, refuses to maintain the house and take care of the poor dog, and is buying brand new video games and draining his account, you are basically a sugar momma for him right now. He needs to shvt or get off the pot and you need to stop enabling him.
Tarpon has it. The time for hand holding is over. Its time for him to be a grown up man.
YOU'RE ONE OF THE FEW ON HERE THAT ACTUALLY SOUNDS LIKE A COMMITTED WIFE......MORE POWER AND BLESSINGS TO YOU....IM TRYING TO FIND IF I HAVE THE PATIENCE YOU DO....READING ALL OF THESE POSTS SHOWS HOW MUCH ARRIAGE COMMITTMENT HAS CHANGED..UNDERSTANDABLY IN SOME WAYS AS WOMEN HAVE TO TAKE ON BIGGER ROLES SUPPORT-WISE....IN OTHER WORDS THEY DONT HAVE TIME FOR THE MINUT BS THESE MEN DO...YOURE MORE WILLING TO STAY AND PUSH THAN MANY AND ALTHOUGH ID LOVE TO SIDE WITH THEM AND MAKE THEIR VIEWS REALITY...MY HUBS AND I ARE GOIN THROUGH COUNSELING NOW AND THROUGH THE THICK AND THIN WEVE HAD, I VE HAD NO INTENTION OF LEAVING HIM