Trouble in Paradise
Dancer0919
member
Dear Community,
Our tech team has launched updates to The Nest today. As a result of these updates, members of the Nest Community will need to change their password in order to continue participating in the community. In addition, The Nest community member's avatars will be replaced with generic default avatars. If you wish to revert to your original avatar, you will need to re-upload it via The Nest.
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Note: This only affects The Nest's community members and will not affect members on The Bump or The Knot.
Our tech team has launched updates to The Nest today. As a result of these updates, members of the Nest Community will need to change their password in order to continue participating in the community. In addition, The Nest community member's avatars will be replaced with generic default avatars. If you wish to revert to your original avatar, you will need to re-upload it via The Nest.
If you have questions about this, please email help@theknot.com.
Thank you.
Note: This only affects The Nest's community members and will not affect members on The Bump or The Knot.
TarponMonoxide
You seriously are a perfect example of why marriages fail. Congrats.
Re: TarponMonoxide
If you're going to call someone out in a post, I hope you're able to back it up. Just because she doesn't blow rainbows and puppies up everyone's azz...
Get over it...
Really ?
That is interesting because I always thought she was an example of a woman with high self esteem, a strong focus on what she wants, knows clear warning signs of someone with an abusive personality, as well as a good judge of character.
1. I don't know who you are, what your life is like, or anything you might have been through that gives you the opinions you have, so I'm not judging. I just honestly get frustrated when I read the things you say.
2. I personally am aware that I have an attitude about relationships that is about as far from being feminist as possible, so that often plays a part in how I view things. And I am well aware that my views and beliefs greatly disagree with those of most women these days.
3. The reason I get so frustrated with the things you say to women who post on here is because most of the time I have noticed your approach seems to be "If your man isn't waiting on you hand and foot, leave his a$$" which I completely disagree with. You are getting one sided versions of marital problems, from women who you don't know. All you hear is the problems they have with their man, you have no idea what issues the man might have that the woman ignores and doesn't fix, etc. You seem to be very one sided, and if a woman isn't happy with her man then she should move on. What happened to therapy, working things out, being by each others side no matter what? Men and women both make mistakes in relationships, small mistakes and big mistakes. But the reason 50% of marriages end in divorce these days is because the minute things get hard, people run the other way. And I get the impression that you encourage that. I just feel differently and would offer much different advice than you normally do. I think there are two sides to every story, and you only hear one. The advice you give seems awfully strong for situations that you don't really know much about.
I don't know who you are, what your life is like, or anything you might have been through that gives you the opinions you have, so I'm not judging. I just honestly get frustrated when I read the things you say.
I sugar coat nothing.
2. I personally am aware that I have an attitude about relationships that is about as far from being feminist as possible, so that often plays a part in how I view things. And I am well aware that my views and beliefs greatly disagree with those of most women these days.
Believe in what ever yo want to believe in. Free country, free will.
The reason I get so frustrated with the things you say to women who post on here is because most of the time I have noticed your approach seems to be "If your man isn't waiting on you hand and foot, leave his a$$" which I completely disagree with.
I think you have that misinterpreted.
Most of the ladies here have lazy husbands. It's the same thing over and over again -- it's like these gents are all from the same mold --- they expect the wives to pick up after them, jst like they're back home with their moms. Usually the moms have done it all for the Hs of the women -- and that is why I say to them he needs to equally share in the housework.
Would you stand for a husband who expects you to be his mother? I think not.
Guys like these don't change. The women will get lip service and it'll be the same thing. It's also a show of poor character and no respect for their wife.
A guy is who he is right now and what you see is what you get, the same as you are wha tyou are right now and what he sees is what he gets.
These ladies thought these guys would change after marriage or the husbands are coming into marriage directly from the house of his parents. She probably never saw what a slob he was up until then.
If he is a slob now, or drinks too much now, or puts you on a shelf now, or he is immature, plays too many videogames, is lazy, has too much debt accrued (and it' isn't a student loan or due to a catasatrophic illness), indulges in too much porn for your taste, has a little phone babe who he insists is "only a friend," runs around with his friends too much or he's just not into sex now... or his problem is ______________, sorry, that's who he is as of right now....and if you don't like it as of right now, don't marry him. Period.
You are getting one sided versions of marital problems, from women who you don't know. All you hear is the problems they have with their man, you have no idea what issues the man might have that the woman ignores and doesn't fix, etc. You seem to be very one sided, and if a woman isn't happy with her man then she should move on.What happened to therapy, working things out, being by each others side no matter what?
We are all hearing "her" side of it. We can only advise based on what we hear.
But when you're up against a dealbreaker like drug use, abuse, a firm lack of respect for the spouse or a guy who can't get it that his wife is his family and that he is to be a unit with her, that's it.
We've seen mama's boy problems, emotional affairs, nasty IL problems (where the H didl not make sure that this nastiness ended when the mastiness began) adultery, money problems, issues where the H is showing his wife that he wants to live the single life and not be a husband, alcoholism, abuse, drug use and abusive spouses, just to name a few cases --- would you want to "Be by each other's side no matter what" in any of those cases? I think not.
Men and women both make mistakes in relationships, small mistakes and big mistakes. But the reason 50% of marriages end in divorce these days is because the minute things get hard, people run the other way.
So what's the demise of the other 50% of marriage that end in divorce?
In a lot of cases, I'd say the demise is due to a sheer lack of communication. They don't discuss sh!t with their spouse. Bad news.
And lots of times a couple needs to work on the problem together and that doesn't happen. In that case, how do you expect the marriage to survive?
There will eventually be a rift between the 2 of them larger than Grand Canyon and you'll see that marriage split wide open at about that time. It will be irreparable at this point.
Most of the problems the Nesties report were prevalent before the marriage took place and she either refused to see there was a problem or thought that the problem would be livable and/or fixable after marriage...or she thought the problem would resolve itself. Nope. Not happening. Love doesn't solve all.
How many times have we heard "My H had an emotional affair before we were married..." or "I caught him cheating before..."? Gee, big surprise that the offender is back for a second or third or fourth helping! Once a cheater always a cheater and nothing changes that. This went on before you were married or happened once before in your marriage? Then you should have bidden him adieu back then.
And then they won't leave... it slays me that they won't. OR they won't leave because there are kids involved and where would she go with small kids.... Sad.
Have a look at the S&R board: there are women who are beating a dead horse: lots of them are reporting sexual incompatibility. Nothing can fix that. And that's been going on before they got married. If sex is important to you, do not marry a guy who is on a whole other page regarding sex. And if he won't actively work with you on fixing this, that tells you plenty.
And if the problem wasn't prevalent before the marriage, something happened during the marriage. Maybe the guy sees that marriage entails being an equal partner and he just can't hack that. Or maybe he was never emotionally checked into it in the first place and put up a pretty good front.
And I get the impression that you encourage that. I just feel differently and would offer much different advice than you normally do. I think there are two sides to every story, and you only hear one. The advice you give seems awfully strong for situations that you don't really know much about.
Try everything before you throw in the towel, unless it is a dealbreaker.
We all know what the dealbreakers are.
This is where we disagree. Most of your advice I totally agree with. Many women come here with issues that are old news they just don't want to accept that they knew about issue X, but married him anyway. Those women need the strong wake-up calls because the issue is, as much if not more, them. They put themselves in the situation they're in.
However, people are DEFINITELY capable of growth. People are always growing and changing, some much more dramatically than others. Particularly when they realize a partner is serious about ending the relationship because they're so unhappy.
As often as the answer is said "just leave him, duh" I suggest we instead offer "what are you doing to keep things in this unpleasant pattern? How can you change your behavior? Your communication? Your expectations?" Personal growth is the pathway to happiness as far as I'm concerned, regardless of what actually changes around you. Therapy is often suggested here, which I like, but I think it should be a much louder stronger suggestion. Just my opinions. :-)
Sure, but realistically a lot of people don't change and waiting around hoping for something to change without making it happen or having evidence that the spouse is willing to make a change is a waste of everyone's time.
Do you have a source for this claim? Because you should take your own advice and remember that whenever you hear about a couple divorcing, you don't know the whole story behind it. It might appear to you that they are splitting up on a whim without trying to work through anything, but the reality might be that there are years of dysfunction and misery behind closed doors. People generally aren't eager to air their dirty laundry, especially to those who might judge them negatively.
Reading this board and observing the relationships of family members and friends has given me the impression that people actually put up with way more bull$hit in their marriages than any human being should reasonably be expected to endure before getting out. If anything, I attribute the high divorce rate to people willfully ignoring glaring red flags (infidelity, drug use, laziness, financial irresponsibility, a complete lack of respect) and plowing ahead with marriages that are doomed from the start.
Thumbs up. (I can't use the emoticons in this browser)
99.9% of the time I agree with Tarpon. If I was not happy with my marriage and counseling didn't work, I would get divorced - since we only live once, we shouldn't have to be unhappy in a marriage for the rest of life because wedding vows were exchanged or because it's the 'proper' thing to do. Majority of women that post on the board 'Trouble in Paradise' will give their sides of the story, their gripes on their spouses, it's only logical for us to comment to either seek counseling (if it's a communication type issue) or walk it out - if there's cheating or similar.
Some women believe in divorce, others do not. We may not agree with each others opinions or thoughts but there's no need to make comments like these on a separate post and call people out because we don't like what they say..
Based on what we read, we give advice.
And yep, I said that also: the problem is there before the person gets married; what you see is what you get -- immaturity, gross laziness, can't save money, financial irresponsibility, a guy who can't stick up for his FI and never will, no respect, drinks too much, spends too much time with friends, has a little phone babe, etc. The problem won't resolve itself. It'll only worsen if anything.
sorry, i stopped reading after this part.
fem?i?nist
[fem-uh-nist] Show IPAadjective Sometimes, fem?i?nis?tic.1.advocating social, political, legal, and economic rights for women equal to those of men.noun2.an advocate of such rights.I think Tarpon is generally on cue. However, she is sort of a one-trick pony in that her reponses always seem to err on the wife is correct, the husband is not. I agree with the OP that Tarpon expects the husband to bow to the wife's wants/needs but it doesn't necessarily go both ways.
Her comments on the S&R board are often: "do want you are comfortable with, don't let him pressure you into something you're not" and "he lacks character if he is not willing to do whatever he needs to please you".
Interspersed with this discordant stance comes some decent advice.
She is blunt, but frankly the posters she is reponding to generally seem to need some bluntness in their lives.
Right? What kind of weirdo would be against that?!
Look, OP. I've been here a few years (lost my password, changed email addresses, and thus created a new profile). Do I always agree with Tarpon? No. Usually I do, but not always. However, she's a no bullsh*t type of woman and a damnn good judge of character.
That said, please be careful what you said in regard to marriages ending, especially if you're not aware of the situation. I was abused, emotionally, verbally, mentally, and physically. Since he was a minister and used religion to add insult to injury, I guess you can throw spiritually in there as well.
Like you, I believed that people gave up waay too easily, and thus that was the reason for the high marriage rate. I made vows, and by God, I was going to stick to them and put on the image of the happy marriage to everyone else. Our problems were our problems, right? If we just stuck together, all would be okay.
Until I couldn't anymore. Until the abuse got so bad that I could barely function without antidepressants and antianxiety medication. Until my best friend rescued me one night (and the cops backed her up). Did I divorce his azz right then? No. I wish I could say I did, but I tried to work it out in therapy for another four months until our therapist pulled a one-man intervention and the very priest who married us told me that a divorce, followed by an annulment when I was ready was necessary. Just to give you a clear picture, I lived with BFF until I could leave town (I eventually moved out of state in order to stay safe; he still found an excuse to come to my city). We lived just below a cop, and one day XH came to visit. He threw a fit outside the apartment, and had to be warned by the cop not to come back (I kept demanding that he leave). The cop later told BFF that if I went back to him, it was his opinion that I'd be dead in six months.
Marriages fail for a lot of reasons, and quite honestly, we have no idea what is driving a woman to post here. I know I didn't until after I met with a lawyer. Only then did I begin to tell my story to anyone outside the marriage. And I began to look at divorce in an entirely new way.
Divorce is painful. Most times, people have tried everything they could think of and have gone through hell emotionally before divorce even becomes an option. It's not an easy 'give up' that you seem to be characterizing it as. It's difficult, emotional, and on a somewhat lesser note, really expensive.
As for me, I should have ended my marriage far before I did. I didn't because I thought that I could make it work. And I don't care how many sides to the story there are, some things are dealbreakers. From my own experience, emotional abuse is a dealbreaker. Physical abuse is a dealbreaker. Complete immaturity is a dealbeaker. Marital rape is a dealbreaker.
I've been out of my marriage for just under two years, and I still can't bring myself to return to any church in any kind of regular way. Part of this is lingering PTSD. A larger part of it comes from the views and attitudes that are so similar to the ones you express here. It's not helpful. They see my divorce status and judge me for it, as if I didn't do everything I could to save my marriage. While there's a hell of a lot to be said for sticking by your commitments, these views and attitudes are even further damaging to people who are already to wounded.
Please be careful of what you say and where you point fingers. Believe whatever you want, but be sure that your expression does not further wound those who are already hurting.
Wow, that is an incredibly traumatic history. I'm so sorry for everything you've gone through.
Lurker here. I just wanted to let you know that I cried just now reading your story. I don't know you, but I'm sorry for what you've gone through, and I'm proud of your strength.
"You know you're in love when you don't want to fall asleep because reality is finally better than your dreams." - Dr. SeussSame here. I think her responses are sometimes harsh, BUT, you know what, she is honest and sometimes people need to hear the harsh honest truth. (myself included) If you are going to come here and post about your problems, then you should be prepared to get honest responses from people. Beyond that, it is up to you whether or not you want to take the advice given here, but I don't think it is fair for OP of this thread to call people out just because she thinks their advice is 'mean' or 'ruins marriages'. I think if someone is coming here and posting things like their H is caught cheating, it's pretty safe to say that the marriage is already ruined on its own without any help from anyone here.