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Help Needed - Cat's Who Form Crystals in Urine
Hi ladies. Popping over from the PAIF bump boards to get some advice from you over here! I'm hoping you can help me, or at least give me some advice.
My cat is almost 2 and we have been having some problems with him peeing right in front of his box. I discussed it with my vet and he had an appointment today and it came out that he is forming crystals in his urine. I forget the term he used, but out of the two kinds of crystals he could have, it's the better one (his PH was normal, and blockage is extremely rare to never with this crystal). So he is on an antibiotic for a little while, and we have to change up his diet. The vet said no dairy foods because the calcium can make the crystals worse. So they gave us a Hills Prescription Diet C/D Urinary Health dry food to mix in with his regular food and eventually wean him off the regular food. We have another cat but the vet said there should not be any adverse effects with her eating this food too.
So what can you tell me about cats who form crystals? Is this a problem we can mediate with a specialized diet? I am hoping that we can find cheaper food at the grocery store for urinary health, and don't have to buy a 4lb $20 bag at the vet every week. I adore my cats, so I am certainly willing to do this, but with a baby on the way dropping $335 a vet visit is not easy to stomach. So if you have any experience with this issue, I would love to learn about it and how you deal with it on a regular basis.
TIA!
Re: Help Needed - Cat's Who Form Crystals in Urine
Just like in people, if a cat has formed crystals in the past they are much more likely to form them in the future. And in all animals the main form of prevention is through nutrition. Unlike in people who go home with a laundry lists of "dos" and "don'ts", our pets are fed a complete diet on a daily basis. Unfortunately OTC foods typically are meant to be wellness diets, and aren't designed to help with systemic issues an animal may be facing. Hill's C/D is designed is low is specific nutrients to reduce the building blocks for the crystals in the urine, it also has ingredients to alter the pH of the urine which also helps with the prevention of crystal formation. The other aspect of daily nutrition in a crystal forming cat is to increase water intake. Cats in general are terrible drinkers, but if we can stimulated them to drink more it can dilute their urine which also helps prevent crystals from forming. Some ways to increase water consumption: feed canned food! I know a lot of people don't like feeding canned food but I personally don't think any cat should be on dry food so make the switch. Also the cat water fountains seem to help immensely. You can also try flavoring water sometimes as a treat with a little chicken or beef broth, to encourage their drinking.
Sometimes after we get their crystals resolved some cats can go back on a normal diet and with just the increase in water intake can manage to reduce the crystal production. It doesn't always work and your kitty will always be at risk for formation.
B/w 1/8: betas 17,345, progesterone 25.6
Thanks for the advice ladies! I'll definitely try to increase his wet food intake. Oddly enough he has never been that interested in wet food. In the past when we have given him some he takes a few bites and then just seems uninterested. But we will try again. Unfortunately he does have a taste for dog food! But he only seems to eat a tiny bit as the pieces are big. Thankfully he does love water and always wants to drink out the sink or our glasses. I think he would love getting a kitty water fountain.
I am hopeful I can find a good healthy food for him from someplace other than the vet. I don't mind going to places like PETCO/PETSMART to get him some food, although the closest one is at least 30 min away. The price I pay for living in the middle of nowhere KS haha. I'll be honest that I'm not thrilled with buying really expensive cat food, but if it's what he needs then that's just what I'll have to do.
I doubt these are related, but just out of curiosity - does this crystal problem have any correlation with his massive size or shedding? He's a really huge cat (not obese, just big in general. He dwarfs our female cat who is the same age) and he sheds worse than any animal I've ever had! Maybe this better diet will help with the shedding! I can hope!
No, shedding shouldn't have any relation to forming crystals. It can cause constipation but not crystal formation. And you don't have to spend a ton of money to get a good quality cat food.
I have had this problem with two different cats over the years. For the first cat, it was resolved by adding more water sources around the house and increasing wet food intake. The more liquid you can get in them, the more the system stays flushed out and crystals can't form.
For the second cat, it was a male and I was more nervous about blockage so I agreed to a special diet. My vet was OK with any type of urinary food, it didn't have to be crappy C/D, so I started adding in Wysong Uretic. It's about $11 a bag at my local store, but I just bought more yesterday on their website - 4 bags (16 lbs total) for $36 (I think?) and a free shipping code. I'm currently doing 1/2 that and 1/2 Chicken Soup. I also add water to their wet food. One cat loves it as a soup. His clumped balls of pee are HUGE. I think he will never have a urinary issue. :-) The other two like it with just a little extra water, and so far everyone is still doing great!
Check out http://www.catinfo.org for awesome info on adding wet to the diet and keeping urinary issues away for good. It's written by a vet and she has great information.
My cat had a blockage 5 or 6 years ago and the vet prescribed the prescription urinary food to him as well. This prompted us to look into diet and health for our cats and we chose not to feed him that food as it has all of the things that are not healthy for cats that food from the grocery store, etc has as well. We started feeding them Wellness CORE as it seemed like a good choice for urinary problems.
We also got a water fountain as the filtered and moving water encourages them to drink more. We now feed them Wellness canned food instead of dry, which helps for water intake - although we really started doing that because my other cat was overweight and needed to diet. We get it on Amazon w/ the monthly subscription and it is a little less than $40 for 24 cans, so cheaper than in the store and they will deliver to wherever you live for free.
I know you said you didn't want the extra cost of special food, but if you are going to be spending more anyway I would recommend getting a healthier food rather than the prescription stuff. We haven't had any blockage problems since.
My cats love the wet food and won't eat dry anymore - but even if your cat will eat wet for one meal and dry for the other that could help w/ water intake and decrease the chance of crystals.
No, it does not nullify it. That's like saying doing wet food with the dry food nullifies the wet. You can still gain some benefits. His issue is cured so I could switch back completely, but I decided to still retain some benefits of the uretic food.
Yes it does actually. Going half and half canned and wet still has an increased water content in diet so you still gain benefits from the canned food you feed. The primary goal of uremic diets is to alter the pH of their urine and if you don't feed entire uremic diet you are most likely completely counteracting this process.
It is working for your cat which is fine, but it's not correct information so if op is looking at ways to change their diet going half and half is not what should be done.
MR didn't recommend going half and half to begin with. She merely stated that this is what she does now after rectifying the original problem. It's obviously keeping things level enough for HER cats to prevent a recurrence of the problem. Sharing her experience doesn't mean it should be everyone's exact action, simply that it's worked for her cats, and could be a possibility for others.
B/w 1/8: betas 17,345, progesterone 25.6
Right. So I should stop eating broccoli, because I also eat french fries and so that basically nullifies the broccoli.
You're an idiot, but that was pointed out long before this post.
)
Ha. That's funny and again your analogy is again completely irrelevant.
I am very happy your cats stone are managed on your current diet, really I am. I was just trying to caution about slight misinformation.
But again when you are talking about pH the complete diet matters not just half of it. I am not talking nutrient content (which your analogies reference).
Ha. That's funny and again your analogy is again completely irrelevant.
I am very happy your cats stone are managed on your current diet, really I am. I was just trying to caution about slight misinformation.
But again when you are talking about pH the complete diet matters not just half of it. I am not talking nutrient content (which your analogies reference).
I didn't give misinformation. I gave a story of what I do for my healthy cats.
Here's a little math breakdown for you.
You have food A with ph of 8
You have food B with ph of 4.
You mix the two.
Average PH is now 6. You are still giving a diet with a different ph level than if you fed only food A or only food B.
(numbers are for mathematical reference only).
My cats are all clear and healthy, but I still want to keep the ph levels slightly altered. Just for kicks.
You're amazing.
B/w 1/8: betas 17,345, progesterone 25.6
The math works in your head but not in your cat.
1 we are talking about much more narrow margins for pH. The pH we aim for is quite narrow since we don't want it too acidic to do damage the the urine but acidic enough that crystals don't form. So even a little change outside that pH window can drastically change the ability of crystal formation.
2 The actual pH of the urine depends on the metabolism of the diet in your pet and how the nutrients of the food interacts during digestion not the actual pH of the diet. It is not nearly as easy as one diet creates a pH of 6 and another diet creates a pH of 8. So say the uremic food has limited to no ingredient "x" (a protein source for example) because it will interact with other nutrients and increase the pH but food b which you add in has high levels of ingredient "x" then it will interact with the uremic diet and completely nullify the pH benefits of the diet.
And I apologize for not making my original post on this a little more clear. I post from my phone and thus try to be brief, but a lack of information can be just an bad as misinformation.
Look I am not trying to play the one up game and my apologies for offending you. It is apparent that I have and that was far from my intention. I just felt like it was important for the OP to understand that going half and half on diets could give a false sense of security since it is, in essence, the same as being on a non uremic diet. I phrased it very poorly and again I apologize.
This is what I disagree with. This is what I would like you to explain, that which is above in bold.
I would take what this person says with a grain of salt, considering it's coming from the poster who thinks corn and chicken-by-products in dog food is nutritious.
A grain? I'm thinking a whole shaker full!
)
Totally not true. I've asked you for examples, so clearly I am listening.
You accused me of providing false information, but in doing so, I think you're the one providing false information. Give me details and prove me wrong.
But listing 2 micro nutrients isn't going to prove to you I know what I am talking about, but frankly I don't think anything will, and honestly I don't have time to explain valent electrons, acid/ base buffers, physiology and nephrology. You don't want to believe me well fine, again I was trying to help the OP and if part of that is clarifying misinformation so be it.
And as i said earlier the only way to know what YOUR diet is doing for your cat is to get a urinalysis which includes a pH.
So basically you are telling me here that you are making this up. You still can't list 2 nutrients.
I started out years ago not knowing anything about cat nutrition. I have done lots of research in order to educate myself. I am clearly open to being educated. You are clearly unable to back up what you are saying.