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1 Step forward and 10 steps back :(....so frustrated

We've had Abby since November, shes about a year and half old.  About 2 months after we got her ( and doggie obedience) she was really doing great.  My husband and I started to leave her out of her crate in the mornings while we got ready upstairs for work (so she was out "unsupervised" for about an hour or so,he left for work before me so he left her out of crate)....and she was great...just kept snoozing or relaxed on her bed.  Chewed her toys.  Her walks on leash were going really well to and now- BAM!  She is a little maniac.  I cant leave her for 5 MINUTES unattended.  Every morning this week she chewed something different.  This morning, she was so sleepy so I thought..Ill try it, Ill leave her out while I go upstairs to get dressed for work.  Literally, the second I got upstairs I hear a huge crash.  She knocked over the kitchen chairs.  And was pulling stuff off the table.

 On walks she chews on her leash and tugs and tugs with all her might.  She used to be interested in other dogs on walks but now..she tries to bolt and chase them as soon as they are in sight.  I look like the people that send their videos into Cesear and Victoria Stillwell trying to control a lunatic dog (that weighs 80 lbs)

I have NO idea where this change in behavior has come from.  She is super needy too.  She barks, whines and paws while we are on the couch.


Does anyone have any insight on what this could be?  There have been no changes in our home.  Is she just comfortable all of sudden and testing limits?  Please help...Im at my wits end saying the darn serenity prayer when I walk her or pull yet another item out of her mouth.  She was just at the vet within the last two months and everything was fine in regards to health.

Re: 1 Step forward and 10 steps back :(....so frustrated

  • Sounds like she's not ready for this much freedom. Go back to crating when you aren't home, or can't supervise her.
  • I agree...but what about the barking and pawing at us or the tug-of-war sessions she tries to do on walks?  Its like a total shift from a month ago?  Sorry- Im desperate here.  What is a good strategy for when she tries the tug-of-war?  Ive been saying drop it and refuse to walk when she does that.  As soon as she drops the leash I praise her and start walking again.
  • imageWildFlower2350:
    I agree...but what about the barking and pawing at us or the tug-of-war sessions she tries to do on walks?  Its like a total shift from a month ago?  Sorry- Im desperate here.  What is a good strategy for when she tries the tug-of-war?  Ive been saying drop it and refuse to walk when she does that.  As soon as she drops the leash I praise her and start walking again.

    Strict NILIF. Check it out in the FAQs and/or Google. And seriously stick to it; it will work! If you need further explanation of it after doing some reading, definitely ask. We've used it with our Boxer since we brought her home a year and a half ago and she is SUCH a good dog (don't get me wrong, she's certainly had her destructive moments recently, but on the whole, she's incredibly good). 

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    B/w 1/8: betas 17,345, progesterone 25.6
    Progesterone suppositories started 1/2. Please stick, baby!!
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  • thanks...ive heard of it but havent read a ton into it- but I will!  i really think abby has such potential and she is a sweetie, i think she had a lousy start to life...my biggest obstacle probably wont be her..it will be my husband.  she is the dog he asked his parents for his whole life...so when i say he loves her...its insane...we dont allow her on the couch, so he joins her on the floor.  ill read up and share it with him.  thanks so much for all of the input ladies!!!!!!
  • nitalnital member
    Tenth Anniversary 10000 Comments Combo Breaker

    18 months=adolescence 

     Go back to treating her as if she was completely untrained.  

    On walks, make sure she's on a short leash.   More leash=less control.  Otherwise, just keep doing what you're doing.  It will pass.

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    Have you seen my monkey?
  • In addition to the above, extra exercise may help? Tire her out so she's too sleepy for shenanigans? :o)
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  • imagemainerocks:
    In addition to the above, extra exercise may help? Tire her out so she's too sleepy for shenanigans? :o)

    I was going to ask - how much exercise is she getting? We ran into something similar and it was due to too much energy. Our schedules had changed a tad and she had more alone time. In addition to stepping up the walks and playtime, she started going to doggy daycare once a week and it was an immediate change. Bored dogs are trouble makers.


    mutt_zps2fb5f039-1_zps7220f27c
    BFP 11.8.12 * EDD 7.17.13 * MC 12.20.12
    Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over!
  • Well...an average day she gets about 1 hour of good walking through a really hilly neighborhood (sometimes is more, sometimes a bit less but an hour is the norm)  My husband and her play fetch in the yard several nights a week on top of that as well.  She is never out of her crate when we aren't home, it was just those times when we tried it for a short period of time when I was showering or cleaning the upstairs.

     We have taken her to doggie day care a couple of times too.  Its weird b/c sometimes she seems like the engerizer bunny and others she is so lazy!  She acts like toddler having a temper tantrum when they are over tired.  She starts dragging her bed around the house and shaking it in her mouth, pawing at it.  When we see her do this we put her in her crate and- BAM she is asleep in 2 minutes!  Its the cue she needs a nap.

     

    Another question- she has been around tiny dogs at the dog park (pugs, Chihuahuas) and is fine, she frolics and plays.  So this isnt a prey drive thing but when she sees a leaf blowing in the wind..GOOD GOD she lunges and pulls and goes crazy!  Is this puppy/adolescent behavior?  When will the leaves stop being so exciting and how do i control her when she wants to go after them?  (i normally do the whole change direction, if she starts pulling like mad i immediately go the other way and guide her along so she has to follow me)

  • imageWildFlower2350:

    Another question- she has been around tiny dogs at the dog park (pugs, Chihuahuas) and is fine, she frolics and plays.  So this isnt a prey drive thing but when she sees a leaf blowing in the wind..GOOD GOD she lunges and pulls and goes crazy!  Is this puppy/adolescent behavior?  When will the leaves stop being so exciting and how do i control her when she wants to go after them?  (i normally do the whole change direction, if she starts pulling like mad i immediately go the other way and guide her along so she has to follow me)

    Holy crap, our Boxer does the same thing! "OMG A LEAF! IT'S SO EXCITING I WANNA PLAY WITH IT!" Lol.

    I usually just give her a pull on her harness, tell her to leave it or come on, and she's fine. It's just the initial attention the leaf draws when it blows and we're walking nearby, but she doesn't lose it to the point that she's trying to haul me down the sidewalk or anything. It sounds like you've got the right idea in redirecting her attention elsewhere.

    I chalk a lot of the whole leaf enthusiasm up to being a puppy (Zoey is still under 2 years). She's calmed down about it a lot in the past several months, but they're still pretty exciting for her. 

    imageimage
    Daisypath Anniversary tickers
    TTC since July 2012
    BFP #1: 11/9/13; spontaneous m/c at 6w2d, 11/25/13
    BFP #2: 12/31/13. B/w 12/31: betas >1000, progesterone 13.6; B/w 1/2: betas 3065, progesterone 10.2
    B/w 1/8: betas 17,345, progesterone 25.6
    Progesterone suppositories started 1/2. Please stick, baby!!
    Fiona Elise born 9/9/14 - welcome beautiful girl!
    image
    Badge Unicorn
    image
  • imageWildFlower2350:

    Well...an average day she gets about 1 hour of good walking through a really hilly neighborhood (sometimes is more, sometimes a bit less but an hour is the norm)  My husband and her play fetch in the yard several nights a week on top of that as well.  She is never out of her crate when we aren't home, it was just those times when we tried it for a short period of time when I was showering or cleaning the upstairs.

     We have taken her to doggie day care a couple of times too.  Its weird b/c sometimes she seems like the engerizer bunny and others she is so lazy!  She acts like toddler having a temper tantrum when they are over tired.  She starts dragging her bed around the house and shaking it in her mouth, pawing at it.  When we see her do this we put her in her crate and- BAM she is asleep in 2 minutes!  Its the cue she needs a nap.

     

    Another question- she has been around tiny dogs at the dog park (pugs, Chihuahuas) and is fine, she frolics and plays.  So this isnt a prey drive thing but when she sees a leaf blowing in the wind..GOOD GOD she lunges and pulls and goes crazy!  Is this puppy/adolescent behavior?  When will the leaves stop being so exciting and how do i control her when she wants to go after them?  (i normally do the whole change direction, if she starts pulling like mad i immediately go the other way and guide her along so she has to follow me)

    Sometimes you feel like you're exercising non-stop, but young dogs can build up a TON of energy, especially when they're crated all day. Add that time to sleeping at night, and you've really only a handful of hours spent moving around.

    The leaf thing is totally normal. If it's not appropriate time to play because you're walking, tell her "no", "stop", whatever you're using, and turn and walk away. You might walk in some odd patterns, but she'll learn that she can't lead and do as she pleases.

    We got our dog when she was already about 1.5 years. She was still very puppy-like. We noticed a huge difference between 1.5 years and 2.5 years, and now at about 3 years she's pretty calm. She still has days that she's suddenly full of crazy energy, but it's not the norm anymore. 


    mutt_zps2fb5f039-1_zps7220f27c
    BFP 11.8.12 * EDD 7.17.13 * MC 12.20.12
    Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over!
  • Thanks everyone.  Its challenging b/c she is so strong...Im pretty petite so I think other people actually get nervous when the see this....thinking this massive lunatic is going to break free and go on a rampage.  Shes a big baby at heart but lately she is so much to handle.  Im looking into a private lesson with a trainer to get their undivided attention and tell me what exactly im doing wrong.  thanks all.
  • Hi

    I am by no means a dog expert, but I am a certified canine massotherapist and have owned dogs all my life. I bred champion line Siberian Huskies, and over the years have taken in many strays, and have never had a problem dog. You never said whether she was a shelter dog, or came from a private owner. Do you know what her first 1 1/2 years of life were like. It sounds like you used the crate on a regular basis for her and the problem really started when you let her out of it. I also noticed that you mentioned you and your husband work. Was she confined to the crate while you were at work? Was there anyone who could let her out for a little while during the day? If she was a shelter dog and she knows you are getting ready to leave the house, she may have separation anxiety. She may be afraid you are leaving and may not come back, and even though she may know what she's doing is by no means good behavior, she may be acting out for your attention. You also said she is needy, pawing at you and your husband as you sit on the sofa. Push her down without saying anything and when she is down, make sure she has one of her own toys to chew on. I give my dogs hooves, real bones or antlers. As far as the walk, I highly recommend a gentle leader until she calms down. You will see instant results the first time you use it. It is not a harness or head collar, but rather a collar with a loop that goes around the snout which is fairly sensitive. The leash connects where the collar and loop come together under the dogs chin.It doesn't hurt and they can still eat a treat or drink while it is on. A very humane way to teach manners while on a leash. I used this for a beagle - blue tick mix that I have now. All he wanted to do on leash was track & run. I use the gentle leader and he walks like a perfect gentleman. We now enjoy our walks. If worse comes to worse, get a training collar that uses both tone and shock. When she displays unwanted behavior, start with a warning tone and if that doesnt stop it, give a little shock. I dont normally approve of these collars, but if it comes down to the dog staying or leaving, its worth a try. My above mentioned beagle mix ( my ADD child ) is the first dog I've had to use a training collar with, and it cured his jumping on people and food aggression issues within a couple weeks, using mostly just the tone setting. If she would be shifted to yet another home she will have even worse issues. Lets face it, no one is Cesar Milan...except Cesar Milan. He is one of those truly gifted people who has a special way with dogs. We could read his book ( which I DO recommend ) and do exactly what he recommends and we still wouldn't get the results he would. I hope this helps. Ask your veterinarian if he would recommend either of the training aids. I hope this has been of some help. Dogs are like people, some are mellow, some are high strung and some have real issues. Unfortunately, they cant tell us whats bothering them. I feel we chose them, and we owe it to them to try everything we possibly can. Please don't give up to quickly. Good luck & God bless. 

  • Thanks so much for the feedback and Ill try to answer your questions as succinctly as possible. 

    •  She is a rescue that we got from an organization that got her from a shelter right before she was supposed to be put down.  She wound up in the shelter b/c she was picked up as a stray.  Sooo...her first 10months or so of life are totally unknown to me.  
    • I don't see her having separation anxiety at all.  She doesn't make a fuss when we leave and we have taken her to doggie day car and to the groomer..she charges right in tail wagging and doesn't look back. She goes in crate with no problem and I usually leave her with a kong or something to make it pleasant.
    • I come home every day at lunch for about 30-40 min to take her out, give her some attention, maybe a new chew toy and to stretch her legs.

    Its tough b/c I am probably making her out to be crazy and she really isnt that bad.  Its a lot and Ill be honest I need to work on patience b/c lately I have none.  For example..she gets this toy my husband bought her that squeaks and goes crazy chasing it, squeaking it, thrashing it...she gets so amped up with the toy she starts jumping and mouthing at us..our hands our arms..so need to calm her down.  My husband is patient and says we just need to work on it more, I get nervous b/c that is so unacceptable.  She CANNOT jump and mouth EVER.  She never actually "bites" but its enough to scare someone for sure.  Im working on it but need to work on me first.  Thanks again everyone.

  • I understand what you are going thru as I have 2 LARGE dogs who were eating us out of a house and home (literally). We found our problem was we work too much, 12-14hr days and they get bored. Understandably. They ate the carpet, couch, every plant and palm in our backyard. Nothing seemed to help.

     

    Walks were also terrible, they would pull and tug and there was no possible way i could walk two of them by myself, and walking them after my husband got home from work was too late. We discovered these collars at petco, they are similiar to a choke collar, but not. They have little spikes on the inside. We tried those, and believe me i was AGAINST it fearing it would hurt the dogs. 1st walk in the new collars, they are complete angels! I can now walk a 70lb and a 95lb dog all by myself! Also petite like you!

     

    They make plug ins too that release pheramones that are suppose to be calming. I know they have had good results for some people. Look at doctors fosters and smith online. For about $25 might be worth a try! 

     

    We ended up putting an underground fence in our back yard, again another thing i hated because i was fearing it would hurt the dogs. But it worked great. They learned their limits and do not destroy anything anymore! 

     

    If you have the space for it, a trainer recommended on warm days maybe freeze a bucket of water, before you put it in your freezer, fill it with toys, treats, balls of peanut butter, the dog will lick it and stay occupied. It gives them something to do! 

     

    Hang in there, it will get easier! 

  • You are right.  Mouth touching you and paws jumping on you are unacceptable.  A few things:  Please do not use a shock collar.  There is a reason most countries have outlawed the use.  Stay far away from anything related to Cesar Milan. His methods are far outdated and actually proven dangerous.  

    For the jumping, this has to be 100% of the time and never consider jumping acceptable.   When our Lily would jump, we 100% ignored her, not a word, not a peep, not a gesture, not pushing her off, nothing.  We crossed arms, looked up and turned out bodies away from her.  Sometimes I'd have to walk out the front door and back in over and over again.  Once she was standing and not jumping, but still jazzed up, I'd give her the sit command.  Then and only then did she get pets.  If she got up and started jumping again, back to square one.  It taught her that if she wants our attention she has to calm down and sit for it.  Now she is allowed to jump around us when we come home (we still ignore her until she's settled), but she can get her jollies out as long as she does not touch us.  You have to to this every single time and teach your guests the same even though they'll say "Oh I don't mind!."  

    If your dog is jumping on you while you are sitting, immediately get up and do as above.  Do not push her off of you.  To her, she is seeking attention and just like a kid, any attention (good or bad) is attention.  Pushing her off is attention and somewhat of a game.   

    For the walks, ditto the Gentle Leader or the Easy Walk.  Easy Walk is martingale type with clasp in the front.  It is what we use for Lily, but I know many who have used GL with great success.  Do not SHOCK your dog.

    Squeaky toys in our house are incredibly high value and make Lily nuts so they are rarely allowed and rarely for very long.  

    I would continue crating her.  It sounds like she can't handle the freedom.  My Lily has panic attacks if she's not crated when we leave so the crate is her happy place.  

    Good luck!

  • nitalnital member
    Tenth Anniversary 10000 Comments Combo Breaker
    imageWildFlower2350:

    Thanks so much for the feedback and Ill try to answer your questions as succinctly as possible. 

    •  She is a rescue that we got from an organization that got her from a shelter right before she was supposed to be put down.  She wound up in the shelter b/c she was picked up as a stray.  Sooo...her first 10months or so of life are totally unknown to me.  
    • I don't see her having separation anxiety at all.  She doesn't make a fuss when we leave and we have taken her to doggie day car and to the groomer..she charges right in tail wagging and doesn't look back. She goes in crate with no problem and I usually leave her with a kong or something to make it pleasant.
    • I come home every day at lunch for about 30-40 min to take her out, give her some attention, maybe a new chew toy and to stretch her legs.

    Its tough b/c I am probably making her out to be crazy and she really isnt that bad.  Its a lot and Ill be honest I need to work on patience b/c lately I have none.  For example..she gets this toy my husband bought her that squeaks and goes crazy chasing it, squeaking it, thrashing it...she gets so amped up with the toy she starts jumping and mouthing at us..our hands our arms..so need to calm her down.  My husband is patient and says we just need to work on it more, I get nervous b/c that is so unacceptable.  She CANNOT jump and mouth EVER.  She never actually "bites" but its enough to scare someone for sure.  Im working on it but need to work on me first.  Thanks again everyone.

    Actually...that's the perfect scenario to teach a dog not to mouth....play with her, and the moment she either jumps on you or touches you with teeth, say game over, and put the toy away.  Duke and I used to play wild games of tug (we took turns dragging each other through the house, and I'd even pick him up with the tug toy---and he's 75 lbs) and that's why he has incredible bite inhibition.  If he touched me with teeth, it was e end of fun.  He learned not to touch me if he wanted to keep playing.
    image
    Have you seen my monkey?
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