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Dog Bite Question :( Please Read
I have two dogs -- one is large, high energy, and very powerful. She is only a year old so she still plays very puppy-like with lots of nipping. I've been socializing her since she was very small and though other dogs sometimes dislike her style of play and avoid her, she's never acted with aggression towards another dog and she has several other large, high energy friends that she plays with regularly.
I was at a dog park with her, my smaller dog, and one of her high energy friends. I keep my small dog leashed when the two big dogs play because I'm afraid she'll get in between them and accidentally get stomped on or nipped.
Another lady with a small dog approached the gate of the park. My big dog ran towards the gate, play-bowed, and started barking. I asked her to wait a moment so I could gain control of my dog. I don't let her greet new dogs when she is in this high energy mode because again, I don't want her to accidentally hurt a dog.
The other lady either did not hear or did not understand. She entered before I had my dog leashed. The moment my dog wiggled free of my grip and ran towards her dog she started screaming and acting hysterically. (I would have just picked my dog up if I was that afraid). My dog's normal playmate grabbed my dog from behind which made my dog whirl around, nipping as usual.
I never saw my dog make contact with the small dog, although it was difficult to see because the girl who owns my dog's regular playmate had also rushed in to separate them. The girl who owns the small dog did nothing to assist, she was too busy screaming and crying. I did not see any blood so I assumed all the dogs were fine and tried to calm her down.
She took her dog out of the park and started saying the dog was bleeding. Her boyfriend came and they took the dog to the vet. I actually know her boyfriend because he goes to school with my boyfriend. He has been texting us about the dogs' injury. He sent us a picture which shows the scruff of the dogs' neck and two punctures.
At this point, he hasn't asked me to help pay the vet bills and I honestly don't feel liable. My dog was playing with another large dog, the girl was foolish to bring her small dog in without even asking either of us if it was safe to do so. I also am not sure that my dog even caused the injury. It's possible the other dog did it or it happened from the small dog falling on some bricks.
I do, however, feel terrible that this little dog got hurt because of its owner's negligent behavior. I am not sure how to handle this situation. Should I offer to help with the bills just out of kindness? I am afraid this gesture might make me seem liable, which I do not feel I am.
Please help. I am so uncertain about the moral way to proceed. Thanks for reading.
Re: Dog Bite Question :( Please Read
I'm sorry this happened to you, but I'm not sure what advice to give.
I understand dogs getting really excited while playing and inadvertently hurting another dog. You might want to start purposefully stopping play for a few minutes when she starts getting THAT excited; it will teach her to be a little more controlled.
I can't say either of you are fully at fault or blameless. You did warn her you wanted to get your dog in hand/under control before she came in. You can't help anything if she didn't hear you or wasn't paying attention, and you did try to stop it. When something like that happens so fast, it can be hard to tell exactly what happened.
For now, I'd let the girl and her bf know you're very sorry and leave it at that. If they ask for help with whatever the vet bill ends up being, you graciously offer to pay it. No matter whose fault it is, it appears your dog bit down hard enough to puncture, which is a lot harder than usual excited play (I know this, because my Boxer routinely gets her jowls chewed on by other dogs playing, and while they hold on pretty good, she's never bled from it).
B/w 1/8: betas 17,345, progesterone 25.6
This sounds like a really tough situation, especially if no one really saw what exactly happened. For the future, you may want to work on building a super-strong recall command with your dog so you can call her to you in a situation like this.
Also, becauseI have two small dogs, I do want to point out that picking up a small dog to remove it from a situation like this can actually make things worse - it makes the small dog appear to be captive prey for the larger dogs, often causing them to leap up and sometimes try to nip at it in your arms. The small dog can then become terrified because it has no means of escape. Because of this, I never pick up my dogs around other dogs. If necessary, I leash them and leave immediately or put them in a sit/stay while I body block the other dog until its owner can gain control of it.
I hope you're able to resolve the situation.
Thanks for trying to help!
I usually don't even let her greet other dogs when she's in that excited state. I leash her then make her down stay and roll over for a few minutes until she calms down... I think that's why this has never been a problem before.
I agree it's extreme that she punctured the other dog. My smaller dog has been picked up and shaken before by a larger dog and it did puncture but it didn't bleed much so I just cleaned it & put antibiotic on it and waited. She was fine the next day so I didn't worry about it.
My concern with saying that I'm sorry is that it makes me appear to accept liability... and I didn't do anything negligent. My dog was in an off leash area and she has no history of aggression... I'm not worried about the money as much as having my sweet puppy labeled as a violent or dangerous dog.
It's a show of sympathy, not an admission of guilt, over a crappy situation that, fault or no fault, your dog was involved in.
B/w 1/8: betas 17,345, progesterone 25.6
It sounds like your younger dog needs some impulse control training.
And I know this has nothing to do with your story, but in the interest of preventing another incident, you should not have your smaller dog leashed inside the dog park. If another dog approaches her and she feels "trapped" because she's leashed, she may lash out. It's actually one of the stated rules at our local dog park that dogs may not be leashed inside the park.
This is an unfortunate situation. I'm surprised that your dog park is not separated for large and small dogs, at least all the ones here are. Dogs nips and bite each other when they play, get annoyed, or when struggling to show dominance. The park I go to is pretty busy on weekends, and it's not uncommon for their to be small squalls when dogs are finding their place in the group. My observation is that owners that start freaking our or screaming when dogs make contact can escalate the situation quickly. I also agree that it is dangerous to have your small dog on a leash in this environment, or to try to pick up a small dog being cornered by larger ones.
Riley has been bitten a couple times (oddly almost all little dogs that have gotten her on the snout/neck), and bit (a quick hard nip) once where skin was broken. Nobody was going to die so everyone leashed up and went on their way, and most of the dogs have played numerous times since. Of course if someone felt they needed medical care for their dog, that's their call. Are you responsible? Hard to say when it occurs in that type of environment. If they request it it's probably a pay up or take it to court situation, and I have a feeling the court will side with them.
BFP 11.8.12 * EDD 7.17.13 * MC 12.20.12
Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over!
I agree with you, and would NOT say sorry even if you feel bad. You do not want to do anything that will make you assume liability. We had a case at work where a larger dog ran up to a smaller dog and playfully nipped her. The owner of the large dog offered to pay the vet bills and apologized over and over again. The owner of the small dog actually sued our client for emotional distress and negligence. It's a long story, but the large dog's walker actually had a heart attack, which is why the dog got loose in the first place. People will sue for anything so be careful and do not admit to anything. This does not constitute legal advice, but just be careful, and talk to a lawyer if you're worried. Also, was she taking her dog into the "large" dog section of the park, or is the whole park mixed?
<img scr=<a href="http://s12.photobucket.com/albums/a212/Blawndie42/?action=view
I was at a local park one evening with two foster Great Danes. Never should have taken them by myself but I did. We were just going to go to a ball field to play but there was a man and his small dog sitting watching some kids play softball. The Danes saw the dog and even though they both had gentle leaders on still managed to jerk the leashes out of my hands. I mean two 150+ lb dogs...I really didn't have a chance. I'm not sure if they attacked the small dog or were just trying to play. There was no blood but I did get a good cussing out which I deserved. I apologized over and over but the man just kept cussing at me and told me to leave. Which we did.
It's always a scary situation. I'm sorry it happened to you. What happened with us was 100% my fault. I never should have attempted to take them both my myself on a busy night at the park.
I agree it's an odd situation... it's more of a neighborhood park so not too many people use it. And I def think the girl screaming made all of the dogs excited -- not in a good way.
I found out after posting that I am not responsible. I spoke with the people who manage the park. Everyone who uses the park had to sign a waiver of liability that states they are solely responsible for any injuries sustained in the park.
Thanks for your response. That is the path I eventually decided to take, the more I thought about the situation. I mainly felt bad for the little dog that got hurt, not because I did anything wrong.
I spoke with the people who manage the park and they assured me I am not liable and should not pay any bills.
The park is NOT divided which I agree causes a problem. The owners of the park are installing a new fence soon to create division and we will not be going back to the park until that is in place. My big dog has actually played with little dogs many times in the past without incident... I think the screaming just got all of the dogs extra excited... but I learned I cannot count on other dog owners to act rationally.
Just an update to anyone interested:
I spoke with an attorney, my vet, and the owners of the park to see how best to proceed with the situation.
My attorney told me I had not acted negliably and therefore I was not liable for the accident. Everyone that uses the park signs paperwork stating we accept sole responsibility for injuries we or our dogs sustain in the park.
I showed my vet a photo of the injured dog and she explained it is only a shallow cut and whichever dog caused it (please remember, no one saw my dog in make contact, it could have been the other large dog in the park) was not intending to injure. I actually take my big dog to daycare at my vet's office and she seemed to think it was unlikely my dog even bit this dog.
The owners of the park told me NOT to pay any vet bills.
In conclusion, I've learned not to assume everyone who brings a dog into a dog park is an educated dog owner. I'm working on having a better "recall" with my big dog so if she ever approaches a dog I'm not sure about she'll come back to me before a problem escalates.
Thanks for all of your help!