Allegiant Discussion (Spoilers)

hopecounts · October 2013

I REALLY need to discuss the book. Anyone else finished?

LaBellaVita23 · October 2013

I'm about halfway there. I'll probably finish up late tonight. I'm still trying to process things and I'm not sure about any of my feelings this far. Sorry I'm not more helpful.

hopecounts · October 2013

I get it. I'm still not 100% what I think/feel about it yet. I really need to talk it out.

goatlady12 · October 2013

I finished!!!! I really need to talk about this...

LaBellaVita23 · October 2013

Oh my god I just finished. Sorry if there are a lot of typos but I can't see through my tears at the moment. I don't think I can process this at the moment. There were a lot of "WHAT THE F-CKS?!?!" In the last portion and for awhile I refused to believe it. But a the same time, I think her death stayed true to her character, you know? While my heart aches for Tobias and I hate when characters don't get their happily-ever-after, I guess it felt realistic. Or at least that's what I'm going to keep telling myself so I can be okay with it and not blow up Veronica Roth's twitter feed with angry "How could you do this to me?!?!?!" Messages I will say, that is think the ending wrapped up a but too quickly and nicely (other than Tris obviously). Oh ok, we're just going to have a treaty and everyone is now going to get along? Gee whiz, what a great idea! So that's all I can say right now because that's all I've been able to process. Now I have to try to go to bed which won't happen because I've been crying and my brain won't be able to turn off. So thank you VR for the terrible nights sleep I'm going to get tonight. ETA: sorry if there aren't any breaks between paragraphs. They aren't showing up on my iPad even though they are there...

lizabethann06 · October 2013

I'm still processing everything. I thought there were some great parts and some parts that felt rushed. I couldn't believe Tris died. I was like WHATTTTTT IS GOING ONNNNNN. I couldn't believe that Roth went there! I was half angry and half impressed. Angry because WHY! and impressed because most authors don't kill their main character.

taylormillgirl · October 2013

I am the biggest emotional wussy when it comes to books; (sometimes I even read the last page first to make sure there's a happy ending before I get invested.) I'm glad I decided to wait until this series was complete before diving in. I still want to read these books, but now I know not to get attached to the MC during the journey. Otherwise, I would have been gutted.

Signed,

A happily-ever-after junkie

hopecounts · October 2013

I felt like Tris dying was true to the character and story and in some ways had been forshadowed throughout the trilogy. It killed me but once I got pastt he tears it felt like yes that what should happen. I do agree the wrap up was quick but I atteibute that to it being from Four's perspective and he was not in a place to pay attention to the details so I read it as if of course there was a lot that went ont o make it happen but Four isn't able to let us see them. I can see why once his Mom chose him and Marcus was forced to step down it would go smoothly Johanna was Amity and wants peace if possible and Evelyn wants her son and both of their groups will losten to them. I'm sure there were bumps along the way but I imagjne Four wasn't paying attention to them. All in all I feel like it did a good job closing the trilogy in a fulfilling way.

LadyMacaron · October 2013

Blah. I gave up reading it half way through. I was already on the fence about liking the series, and this just made me be done with it. Tris and Four have progressively gotten unbearable, so I had no reason to be invested in characters I don't like any longer. I was hoping she'd redeem herself with the last book, but it was seriously underwhelming. I don't think I am alone, according to Goodreads.

CeeCeeSugaPie · October 2013

Just finished. I am seriously in shock and becoming more irritated by the minute. Honestly, if Tris had to die, which I understand, then I wish Four would have died with her or something. I think I was even more dissapointed in the way all the loose ends were wrapped up than I was with Tris's death. Being Abnegation-raised and all, Tris sacrificing herself wasn't a huge leap. And Marcus just disappears? WTH? I just didn't care for this one at all. How dissapointing!

pugznploons · October 2013

finished it last night and I'm going to give it 2 out of 5 stars.

things i liked:

-the backstory of what was going on outside of Chicago. Very interesting, I would have actually liked to know more about it.

-Tris and Four not constantly fighting like they did in book 2

things I didn't like:

-Tris dying, I like a happy ending in YA lit

-how quickly things were wrapped up. It was just very very unrealistic that in the course of a couple of days they could overthrow the Bureau and make peace in Chicago with very little bloodshed or lives lost. Also, wouldn't the government be upset about them resetting the Bureau workers? Wouldn't they retaliate somehow? Won't the re-set people find out the truth? Lots of people know what went down and they'd have access to the history of humankind just like the GDs uncovered. What about relationships the re-set Bureau workers had? Marriages? Children? Re-setting them has huge ripple effects and it was clear in the epilogue that those effects were not really addressed or fleshed out.

-Oh also did they have sex or didn't they have sex? It was ambiguous and I don't like that. I figured if they DID have sex that one of them was likely to die as that seems to be the formula.

I think a 4 book series would have been better as she could have delved more into the outside world and the experiments as well as a not so rushed "solution" to all the problems.

packfan20 · October 2013

Okay, I just finished.

1) It didn't bother me TOO much that Tris died. I don't always need to have a happy ending. **shrugs**
pugznploons about wondering what happened to the Bureau workers and the repercussions of resetting them.
3) This one was almost too scientific and Erudite for me. Serums and genetics and talky talky.
4) I thought I would give it 4 stars but I gave Divergent 4 stars and I liked it more than Divergent so I don't know.
5) I know that some people only enjoy books with happy endings. That is fine. I don't understand why people have to attack authors because they DIDN'T make it a happy ending and that one ending of a series all of a sudden changes your feelings for the entire series. The end.

packfan20 · October 2013

Oh I will also add that I did NOT like the jumping back and forth between Four's and Tris's point of view. I hate books that do that.

InLovewSB · October 2013

I was trying to remember the last time a book made me cry real tears, and I couldn't remember.... maybe Prim. I'm also 20 weeks pregnant, so that plays a role.

I BOOHOO'd pretty hard for the last several chapters. Her death hit me hard, not that it wasn't foreshadowed. When Four was laying on the sofa with her & hopeful about how life could be after the serum release, I knew he wouldn't get his happy ending. I cried the hardest during the haircut scene when Christina was talking about Tris not wanting to be forgotten. Sad stuff.

Overall, I liked the story. I remember characters well, so I have no complaint about the number of storylines or keeping names straight. I thought Roth did a good job conveying how incredibly disconcerting it must be to realize your tiny world is actually HUGE and how odd it would be to be watched constantly without knowing. It's fun to see a hotel or airport terminal from their point of view. I liked that the conflict between Four and Tris was followed by a more immediate resolution/conversation. I don't like when relationship tension gets drawn out. I also really liked getting inside Four's head for much of the novel, knowing his inner thoughts. I would still definitely recommend the series to anyone who enjoys YA.

CeeCeeSugaPie · October 2013

packfan20 said:

Oh I will also add that I did NOT like the jumping back and forth between Four's and Tris's point of view. I hate books that do that.

I normally enjoy when books do this, but I don't think it was done very well in this book.

CeeCeeSugaPie · October 2013

I also felt like the badass Four I came to love was missing in this book. I understand that he is broken and has a screwed up past, but did she have to turn him into such a pansycake. (See what I did there? lol)

packfan20 · October 2013

InLovewSB said:

I was trying to remember the last time a book made me cry real tears, and I couldn't remember.... maybe Prim. I'm also 20 weeks pregnant, so that plays a role.

I BOOHOO'd pretty hard for the last several chapters. Her death hit me hard, not that it wasn't foreshadowed. When Four was laying on the sofa with her & hopeful about how life could be after the serum release, I knew he wouldn't get his happy ending. I cried the hardest during the haircut scene when Christina was talking about Tris not wanting to be forgotten. Sad stuff.

Overall, I liked the story. I remember characters well, so I have no complaint about the number of storylines or keeping names straight. I thought Roth did a good job conveying how incredibly disconcerting it must be to realize your tiny world is actually HUGE and how odd it would be to be watched constantly without knowing. It's fun to see a hotel or airport terminal from their point of view. I liked that the conflict between Four and Tris was followed by a more immediate resolution/conversation. I don't like when relationship tension gets drawn out. I also really liked getting inside Four's head for much of the novel, knowing his inner thoughts. I would still definitely recommend the series to anyone who enjoys YA.

Yes and for me, it was great because I knew exactly what she was talking about with the city/airport/hotel. Chicago rules.

packfan20 · October 2013

CeeCeeSugaPie said:

I also felt like the badass Four I came to love was missing in this book. I understand that he is broken and has a screwed up past, but did she have to turn him into such a pansycake. (See what I did there? lol)

Yeah, he was kind of a pansycake, wasn't he? He had been through a lot though but so had Tris and she wasn't pansycake-like at all.

jason&robin · October 2013

I agree. It would have been better if Tris and Tobias had a better relationship in this one. Him rushing off to help the first attack just seemed out of character for him. He was like Edward in breaking dawn....quivering in the corner.

sweetrhythms · October 2013

Okay, I just finished. I give it 3 stars. It was pretty meh at parts and other parts were interesting.

I felt like there was a lot that wasn't fleshed out. I think I found that a lot with book 2 as well. I feel like Roth just drops characters in like those random fringe people or Reggie or Zoe and then we don't hear much about them again. I think that's why it was hard for me to remember some of the characters from book to book. She just doesn't do a great job building/explaining relationships.

I didn't care at all when Tris died. Could not have cared less. I also found the Tris and TOBIAS (ugh) relationship kind of annoying again. Probably part of the reason I didn't care when she died. And wtf happened to Four? I get that he's damaged but seriously, he became such a loser! What happened to him being such a badass?

I agree that the shifting viewpoints were not well done. I kept forgetting whose POV I was reading from. That was also a dead giveaway to me that Tris was going to die in the end and therefore not surprising at all.

I also had the same questions about the memory serum. What about their families, the rest of the government, the rest of the world? In order for that plan to work there would have to be no contact with the outside world whatsoever or everyone's mind in the world would have to be wiped. Or at least the entire government not just that compound. Just doesn't work.

The epilogue was also annoying. Too many things were solved too quickly. It would have taken a really long time to return from chaos like that. Like, generations...at least if you ask me.

So, those were my issues. Still an interesting read but Divergent was definitely the best one. It all went downhill from there.

packfan20 · October 2013

sweetrhythms said:

The epilogue was also annoying. Too many things were solved too quickly. It would have taken a really long time to return from chaos like that. Like, generations...at least if you ask me. So, those were my issues. Still an interesting read but Divergent was definitely the best one. It all went downhill from there.

Yes! I would have actually preferred it minus the epilogue. I didn't care that Tris died but it's like Roth tried to put a bandaid on the hurt by writing the epilogue.

MrsC7 · October 2013

I hate to say this but Allegiant disappointed me even more than Insurgent. I agree with a lot of what @packfan said. I will probably give it 2 or 3 stars on GR.

1) I was shocked that Tris died but I wasn't overly upset. Her death was in line with her character.

2) I loved Divergent because it was character-driven. Tris and Four drove the plot. I loved learning more about them and their world. Insurgent lost some of that. Allegiant almost lost it completely. SO MUCH TALKY TALKY. A lot of the explanations felt forced, like she was just explaining things to us, especially about the Bureau and the science, just so the plot could move along. The serums, the genetics, the history of the Bureau, the history they hid. None of it felt organic; it all felt forced to me.

2a) Not only did she "talk at" us, so many characters felt like they were placed there to move the plot along. Matthew. David. Zoe. I didn't buy Matthew's dead GD girlfriend story for a minute. Too convenient, too out of nowhere. I suspected David and Tris's mom were romantically involved, but again, his character was too underdeveloped to be believable. Why would a high ranking commander of the Bureau just randomly induct Tris into the inner council when she is clearly Four's girlfriend, the same Four who just incited rebellion against the Bureau days before David offered her this "promotion"? Because she threatened to sacrifice him for "the greater good?" Because she looks like his old childhood flame?

3) What was the point of Peter? He was so fearsome in Divergent. He lost that in Insurgent. He was completely pointless in Allegiant. Why did she keep him around as a character? He basically sat on his bed and read books until the end. Then he all of a sudden wants to insert himself into the action?

4) Hated the shifting viewpoints.

5) Too much conflict. Who is on what side? Why? First we were fighting against Jeanine because she was killing Divergent. Then we were fighting against Marcus/Evelyn/the factionless to expose "Edith Prior's Truth." We embrace the Allegiant. Now the Allegiant are pointless, so we're fighting the Bureau. WHY DO WE KEEP CHANGING THE ENEMY?

6) Amar was hot for Four? What!?! That came out of nowhere.

packfan20 · October 2013

I have another thought...

The end of Insurgent left a big cliffhanger with Edith Prior. We then learn that she was a relative 7 generations back or something and that's about it. Right? Am I missing something? I expected her to have a HUGE part. In Booney's post about Insurgent, everyone is speculating on who Edith is and I'm thinking "Don't worry too much. It's not a big deal at all."

CeeCeeSugaPie · October 2013

MrsC7 said:

6) Amar was hot for Four? What!?! That came out of nowhere.

I thought that was kind of cool, but I didn't see the point in including it, especially when there were so many other topics that needed to be fleshed out further.

MrsC7 · October 2013

packfan20 said:

I have another thought...

The end of Insurgent left a big cliffhanger with Edith Prior. We then learn that she was a relative 7 generations back or something and that's about it. Right? Am I missing something? I expected her to have a HUGE part. In Booney's post about Insurgent, everyone is speculating on who Edith is and I'm thinking "Don't worry too much. It's not a big deal at all."

@packfan20 Exactly! Totally NBD. Again, another character simply introduced to move the plot along.

packfan20 · October 2013

CeeCeeSugaPie said:

MrsC7 said:

6) Amar was hot for Four? What!?! That came out of nowhere.

I thought that was kind of cool, but I didn't see the point in including it, especially when there were so many other topics that needed to fleshed out further.

I thought it was kind of silly, especially since Lynn already had confessed that she "liked" Marlene so it's like "okay, the gay/lesbian party has already been thrown in there."

MrsC7 · October 2013

CeeCeeSugaPie said:

MrsC7 said:

6) Amar was hot for Four? What!?! That came out of nowhere.

I thought that was kind of cool, but I didn't see the point in including it, especially when there were so many other topics that needed to fleshed out further.

@CeeCeeSugaPie Right. It just seemed pointless and out of nowhere. How did Tris even suspect that he "liked" Four?

Jen748 · October 2013

I may be the odd one, and I literally just finished reading 5 minutes ago, but I think I loved this. The ending is raw and hard, just like real war and life.

I loved the science stuff and the growth both Tris and Four went through.

Jen748 · October 2013

Oh, and I loved the dual perspectives!

sweetrhythms · October 2013

@mrsc7 you are spot on with the characters being introduced to move the plot. That drove me nuts!! Also, probably the reason so many people had trouble remembering characters from book to book.

BabyRN2006 · October 2013

I enjoyed it. Not as much as Divergent but probably just as much as Insurgent.

I thought for sure I had it figured out. I thought Tobias would be the one to die by sacrificing his life for Caleb out of his love for Tris.

I am not one who needs a happy ending so I had no problem that she killed off Tris.

I agree with everyone who says there were way too many characters though.

I liked the dual perspectives, but she didn't do the best job giving each of them their own voice, so I had a hard time remembering whose POV I was in.

I missed Four. Tobias just isn't the same.

Allegiant Discussion (Spoilers)

Re: Allegiant Discussion (Spoilers)

Choose Another Board

Search Boards