Pittsburgh Nesties
egpitt22
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Can we talk church?
Full disclosure: I haven't been to or been involved with a church since high school (unless you count wedding ceremonies that have mass as a part of it!) The kids have attended a Catholic daycare for years, and to be honest, we have always kind of fallen back on that for them to get some exposure to religious education.
However, Jake is getting older and is also no longer involved in that daycare, so I feel like we need to make a decision as a family and find a church and settle on a religion. It's ironic that for as much as I didn't like going to church when I was younger, I now feel like it's something I need to do not just for the kids, but for myself. I want to make an effort to make it part of our lives, so I feel like finding the right thing for us is a huge decision!
So. I was raised Catholic, Brian was raised Lutheran. In the past few weeks, I've done a fairly random sampling of churches (Episcopal, methodist and lutheran...didn't go to a Catholic mass since I feel like I could still recite those from heart from going every sunday for 14+ years) and to be honest, we're having a hard time deciding what's best for our family. I know it seems weird to just try a bunch of random religions, but neither of us are particularly attached to the religions we were brought up in, so we were ok with branching out and testing some other waters.
I know that no one can give me an answer here, but I'm curious as to how you decided for your family, especially if you were both different religions coming into the marriage?
However, Jake is getting older and is also no longer involved in that daycare, so I feel like we need to make a decision as a family and find a church and settle on a religion. It's ironic that for as much as I didn't like going to church when I was younger, I now feel like it's something I need to do not just for the kids, but for myself. I want to make an effort to make it part of our lives, so I feel like finding the right thing for us is a huge decision!
So. I was raised Catholic, Brian was raised Lutheran. In the past few weeks, I've done a fairly random sampling of churches (Episcopal, methodist and lutheran...didn't go to a Catholic mass since I feel like I could still recite those from heart from going every sunday for 14+ years) and to be honest, we're having a hard time deciding what's best for our family. I know it seems weird to just try a bunch of random religions, but neither of us are particularly attached to the religions we were brought up in, so we were ok with branching out and testing some other waters.
I know that no one can give me an answer here, but I'm curious as to how you decided for your family, especially if you were both different religions coming into the marriage?
Re: Can we talk church?
:-$
Jake - 1.15.08
Liam - 5.17.11
:-$
Jake - 1.15.08
Liam - 5.17.11
I don't think I can really help with your conundrum though Emmy. I am more of an atheist, and Kev is a barely practicing catholic. I told him he could raise EJ catholic but it had to lead the way because it wasn't something i grew up with or believed it but would support him in it. He has not yet initiated any of that so I doubt it will come into play. I hope you find the right church for your family, and don't at all question your shopping around.
As you know, I am in the same boat as you, but I have not come any closer to making a decision.
We are both Catholic, but I have some reservations about continuing in that with my children. The Pope is giving me some hope, but I just don't know that it is enough. On one hand, I am open to leaving the Catholic church, but on the other hand, I am so Catholic by tradition, that it is not an easy decision. DH is in the same boat, and we are both being wishy washy about it.
I am also a Jesus = Love person so I am looking for a more consistent message from a church and it's parishioners. I can't raise my kids in a religion with a cafeteria style definition of sin or in a church that views someone as a sinner, simply because they are gay. I've tried to reconcile that, but I just can't, so that is why we are leaning towards leaving the Catholic Church. I would also prefer a church that supports the ordination of women. (not sure if that's the right term)
Basically, I'm a gay loving feminist looking for God!
I could go back and forth forever, but because of the kids, we really need to make a decision.
I also grew up Catholic. I went to Catholic school for 9 years, went to church every week through high school, etc. I got away from attending mass regularly starting in college, and now I really don't go at all. I will admit that it's out of laziness, and I've wanted to start going more regularly - but DH grew up without an organized religion and isn't the kind of person to go to church every Sunday, so I'd be going by myself or just with the kids if I go. We are members of a Catholic church in our area.
We did recently have both kids baptized in the Catholic church. We planned to do it with T years ago, but then my parents' priest wouldn't baptize her unless we belonged to a church. I'm so glad we did it now. I do want my kids to grow up with a religion/faith. I just have to get DH more on board.
Emmy - I used to go to a church in the South Hills when I lived in Dormont. It was a Methodist church, and my roommate and I just really liked their masses. I think your plan of visiting the different churches will help you find one that feels like home.
DH even talked about being baptized as Catholic.
After DH's dad died he struggled very hard with religion and he stopped going to church. I currently take Brinley by myself, which has a children's church during part of the mass. It works out well for us. Part of the time she sits quietly with me and part of the time she's learning on her level. Although I do wish we could participate as a family.
Growing up my mom was Methodist and my dad was Catholic. They just went to separate churches and my brother and I went mostly with my dad to church, but would occasionally go with my mom.
It's a hard choice and not at all strange to experience different religions to find what most closely aligns to your beliefs and lifestyle.
Good luck.
In some ways, Lutheran seems to make the most sense...there is a sense of familiarity for both of us there, since that's how Brian was raised and with it being so close to a Catholic mass, it was very familiar to me as well. But...on the other hand, I did really enjoy the Methodist service as well....it was very much a "Jesus is love" message that you ladies are referring to, which is what I'm looking for as well.
*sigh* I should just start my own church & combine all of these aspects of the different churches!!
Jake - 1.15.08
Liam - 5.17.11
Catholic here raising kids in Catholic faith. But we were not a split couple so I can't speak to that type of decision. And frankly, I think it is so overwhelming that I am glad I don't have to do it! I know my sister & BIL are split (Catholic/Serbian Orthodox) and her boys practice both & probably will until they are adult & decide one or the other. She goes to church with my BIL, and he goes with her that way the boys see each are supported.
I think you & Brian have to think first about what are your beliefs & what religion supports those beliefs. If several do and nothing speaks to you deeply then I would continue exploring to find the right community that you fit in well with. Also, there are many churches that offer different things. For instance, some are heavy mission related, others have good bible studies or adult classes. Are any of those important to you? Its possible that if you look around and see a class or activity you may like to do then you will "fall into" that church.
One thing I would not be is stressed about Liam. I'm a huge proponent on parents bringing kids to church and sitting in the congregation not in the way back or in the cry room. Yes your kid may cry or ask questions, but you are in the community, and that is how they learn. That's certainly how we did. Believe me Eamon has cried many times & if its bad we walk to the back but he knows, we are in church and Father is talking so we shhh or now we sing, shake hands, hold hands, etc... I think that way your kids know you take it seriously, its important to you so it is for them too.
That being said, many of DH's friends that were raised Catholic have left for different faiths and one of the churches is huge & has entirely separate places for the kids to go during the adult service (Allison Park Church). So you may not need to worry about Liam at all if that is the case.
I wish you the best - its a hard decision to make.
Oh and alot of the prayers were changed a few yrs ago so if you haven't been in a few years you may say the old words! I know I still do!
How time flies! Caileigh (9), Keira (6) & Eamon (3)
Jake - 1.15.08
Liam - 5.17.11
I think a lot has to do with who is in charge so it needs to be a place you feel comfortable with and that could be 1 of many different places.
We don't go to church and are both more agnostic. Growing up I would go to a friend's church. I really liked it. It had the Jesus=love mentality and I enjoyed going with my friend from time to time. I participated in their youth group with her a lot. Then the pastor left and they got a new one. I went to a service with her there and it was horrible. Absolutely not the Jesus=love. I never went back and it pushed me even further away from organized religion. So I think it makes perfect sense to shop around. Things vary from church to church, pastor to pastor, etc.
I agree with Sheila too about having kids in service. I would want a kid friendly place. My parents stopped going to church when I was little. My mom said the atmosphere changed and was more and more anti-kids in service. She felt it was family time and wanted kids to be able to be in there at times. It was one of many reasons they started feeling that the church was not the right place for us.
DH works on weekends, so if I go to church I go alone with the kids. I took Keefer frequently and even took them both several times when Elsey was smaller. Now that Elsey is on the go, I don't think I would survive mass with both of them, nor would I get anything out of it. I would be too distracted trying to keep them calm and quiet and in their seats. We are currently members of a small Catholic church in our neighborhood where I have had both kids baptised and I was also raised catholic. I have been saying for quite some time that I want to look at some other churches to see if there is one more family oriented but haven't yet done anything. I guess I really didn't answer your question, but I am more in the same boat as you at this point.
-Abbey
But in reality, choosing a church can be overwhelming. DH grew up in a different kind of church than me, so he has made some concessions, but nothing that he is not comfortable with.
Most of the Protestant Faiths are similar in theology, but the worship styles can vary significantly. (If you poke around denominational websites you can find generalities about what each one believes.) Lutheran and Episcopal are going to be more similar to Catholic in worship style. Presbyterian and Methodist tend to be a little less formal, with a little less prescribed liturgy. Churches within the same denomination will also vary significantly in their worship styles. For instance, we are one of three Presbyterian (USA) churches in Cranberry. One is very traditional. One is completely contemporary. We are a blend of the two. The only difference is how individuals feel comfortable worshiping and what helps connect them to God. Different churches, even in the same denomination, will also differ on where they stand regarding certain issues.
Maybe make a list of things that are important to you....Theology? Alignment with a certain social agendas? Children's Programing? Music Style? Preaching? Family worshiping together? Family worshiping separately? Closeness to your house? Mission opportunities (local and abroad.) Feeling included/a part of the church? Being anonymous? (The ability to get in worship and get out w/out being as invested.) Weekday opportunities (kids and adults?)
For instance for me, I need to agree with the basic theology of the church (at least on the essentials...you need to decide on what is essential for you.) The preaching is important, but not critical. I would much rather endure a so-so preacher (I say that because I am a so-so preacher, I think!) and feel a part of a family church - know others by name, feel like I am cared for - than to have great preaching and feel like a number or an offering amount. I want kids programming that has good spiritual content, not just bounce houses and ball pits and video games. I also want to worship together as a family for at least part of the service. But that is just me. (I actually don't get to worship with my family, but S does come up for children's time during worship, and frequently waves to me during announcements from the back pew! We are a family church and welcome children to worship. Even if they are noisy. I love hearing their questions and random thoughts....even when we're "supposed" to be being quiet!)
As you shop around, don't rush. Try to visit for a number of Sundays in a row/in a short time period (4-6 Sundays I would think). I say this for a few reasons. 1. You will get to see if people notice you/welcome you, etc. 2. You will get a better sense of the preaching/worship. Any church can have an exceptional Sunday, or an off Sunday. Music can be stinky one Sunday and stellar the next. Also, this will give you a better sense of preaching style and topics.
Also, keep in mind the church seasons when thinking about the preachings and lessons. For instance, in most mainline (Luther, Methodist, Presbyterian, etc.) churches, you're going to hear about sin during lent. (Hopefully this is also coupled with the idea of grace!!!) You're going to hear about the Passion/Cross on Palm Sunday/Good Friday, and the resurrection around Easter. You'll hear about Jesus' birth story/advent themes during advent. November is usually stewardship time, so there will be talk about $. (These things can all include the idea of Jesus/God's love, but they will be presented much differently throughout the year.) Again, if you attend a number of Sundays close-ish to each other you'll get a better sense of over all style and themes than one Sunday here or there. One sermon might focus on the idea that we are sinners, but it might be followed up by 4 sermons on Jesus' love and grace and the call to love all people, even ones we don't agree with. We just can't get every theme into every sermon or we'd be there all day! And we don't want to preach about the same exact thing each week, so give us a couple weeks to prove ourselves. :-)
Good luck finding a church! My fondest memories of growing up are church related - youth group, conferences and retreats, other adults who invested in me and took an interest in how I was doing, Vacation Bible School etc. I think it is so neat to be involved in a community that is bigger than your one little family.
If you have any specific questions, feel free to reach out. Also, if you would ever want to get together to talk, I would be up for that, too.
And you guys are probably right, that I just need to relax a bit more if the kids get chatty/antsy in church. It's just kind of my first reaction is to hush them as much as I can and make a speedy exit if I can't get them to be quiet...and I just assume everyone around me is annoyed!!
Jake - 1.15.08
Liam - 5.17.11
As we were testing out various churches around us one was completely knocked out of the running when a lady behind us "shusshed" DD. She wasn't even 3 yet and she was talking quietly to her self as she looked at a book. Not exactly the warm fuzzy feeling I was hoping for.
The church that we used to go to before we moved had a great priest. I'll never forget his one sermon encouraging parents to bring their kids to church and to sit outside of the cry room. He said, "Even though their mouths are moving or wide open, I never hear babies or kids crying or talking, I only hear their parents shusshing them."
I was in the same boat when I met DH back in 2004. I was raised Roman Catholic (and even attended some catholic schooling until 5th grade); DH was Lutheran (or Catholic Lite as we like to call it). I have some issues with the catholic church; like you said, the new pope gives me some hope, but I think some things will not change, which is one reason I wouldn't go back.
Flash forward to now, and I call myself a practicing Lutheran. We go most Sundays and Cori goes to the "CCD" program or Sunday School each Sunday. In between 2004 and 2014, it was hard (for me) to find a church. Having been raised catholic, I have certain things I can't get past - namely, the reverance you should show in church. DH and his family attended a local small Lutheran church - 13 rows max and everyone talked out LOUD before service. I was so confused; I was taught you don't talk in church. You reflect and pray and are quiet. It drove me nuts. And it was too small; everyone knew eachother's business.
We were living in West View at the time and found St. John's Lutheran Church on Perrty Highway, just before Perrysville (or past it coming from your direction). It was a larger church, the congregation was quiet before service started, and the pastor wasn't all "fire and brimstone" but preached about love and how we should act like Jesus, in loving ways. They had a nice children's program, which was important to us since we had Cori at the time. They also had "baby sitting" in a play room during service which we took advantage of, since it can be so hard for kids to sit still in church. But we have seen (and been part of) a lot of "disruptions" by kids in church and it is no big deal at all! That's what kids do.
Since we don't live local to St. John's anymore, we don't go there. I love the church we're at now (Hope Lutheran in Cranberry) , and they have an awesome children's program that is very well attended and I know the kids will make some great friends there. They already have and so have I. To me, church is also about community.
Good luck in your search, and give yourself lots of time to feel things out. Oh, and I also feel that you don't need to go to a church to pray and know who Jesus is, etc. Nothing wrong will just talking about it all without having a church to say you belog to.
Jake - 1.15.08
Liam - 5.17.11
Jake - 1.15.08
Liam - 5.17.11
DH grew up going to a Methodist church. He preferred it when it was in a big, old building downtown with an organ. The suburban modern church doesn’t appeal to him. I don’t think either of us feel a strong desire to regularly attend services, partly because it wasn’t a big part of our upbringing.
I think I would be most likely to seek out a church or synagogue for the community aspect. To be a part of the community and to give back to the community in service efforts. In the case that we wanted to find a place or the kids were interested in attending services, we would probably start with the church in our neighborhood (Episcopal) because we are friends with the Pastor and members of the congregation already, and by going to synagogue with family friends.
Jake - 1.15.08
Liam - 5.17.11