Family Matters
ingaah
member
Dear Community,
Our tech team has launched updates to The Nest today. As a result of these updates, members of the Nest Community will need to change their password in order to continue participating in the community. In addition, The Nest community member's avatars will be replaced with generic default avatars. If you wish to revert to your original avatar, you will need to re-upload it via The Nest.
If you have questions about this, please email help@theknot.com.
Thank you.
Note: This only affects The Nest's community members and will not affect members on The Bump or The Knot.
Our tech team has launched updates to The Nest today. As a result of these updates, members of the Nest Community will need to change their password in order to continue participating in the community. In addition, The Nest community member's avatars will be replaced with generic default avatars. If you wish to revert to your original avatar, you will need to re-upload it via The Nest.
If you have questions about this, please email help@theknot.com.
Thank you.
Note: This only affects The Nest's community members and will not affect members on The Bump or The Knot.
...
...
Re: ...
I have 3 kids and from what I see in this situation, the little girl learned this poor behavior somewhere and from someone. While it's true that all kids pretty much go through a phase of acting out when they don't get their own way (and it usually manifests itself with temper tantrums that involve screaming, falling to the floor and kicking the floor), the physical assaults on people she wages seem to me to be a learned behavior that she picked up from someone else. WHO is this someone else? You should ask yourself that.
This is a cycle that has developed. As with any cycle of behavior for adults or kids the only want to fix the problem is to break the cycle. In this case, it means NOT participating in her craziness. This means you let her scream. You don't escalate this with her. You put her in a place where she cannot harm herself, anyone else, or any property that is truly valuable.
This all comes down to a battle of wills. At this point, this child has learned that when she does A, she gets B. She needs to be retrained to learned that when she does A, she instead gets C, which is the lack of attention and other undesirable results. Eventually, she will stop doing A as she will learn it does not have the desired effects for her.
A parent is not supposed to be a friend to a child this young. And a parent is not supposed to allow the child to rule the roost. That's backwards.
What may help you guys is to set expectations at the start of each visit. The girls need to know the rules and what the consequences are if those rules are broken. Here's the kicker - YOU MUST FOLLOW THROUGH ON THE CONSEQUENCES IF THE RULES ARE BROKEN. Otherwise, the kids will once again rule.
You and your BF need to decide what the routine will be when they come over. Plan the weekend out by the hour if you have to. When you can, give the girls choices. For example, if they watch a movie, let them have 2 choices and they get to pick one. If they fight, no movie.
So, set rules, explain rules, write the rules down for the girls to see. Determine consequences. Explain consequences. Write these down too. Determine the routine or schedule and stick to it. Be ready to follow through on consequences. And don't give up. This is going to take some time.
When she says "I'm not going to sleep until Daddy comes home", that's fine, but she still has to be in her bed. If she gets out, put her back. Let her scream or sleep or lie there, but she stays in her own bed.
During the day I would use time-outs with a minute for each year of her age, and she HAS to stay in the time out zone, every time she leaves the count restarts. You have to be strict with this, if it takes two hours to make her stay there for 5 minutes then so be it.
I was smacked as a child and personally if she hit me I would hit her back. Not hard, but loud. It's about giving her a fright and showing her that you are bigger and that she can't fight you and win. I vividly remember hitting my Dad when I was about her age and I only did it once. I know many people will disagree with this and say it teaches kids violence but really it's just about showing them who is boss.
Another thing I would do is make sure that you give the older girl plenty of attention. You don't want to give the impression that acting out is the way to get attention in your house. Praise the older girl for her good behaviour and ignore the younger girl's bad behaviour. I would set up some treats and alone time with Daddy that are only for girls who behave. This is both to encourage the younger one to behave and make sure the older one is not neglected because you are too busy with the younger one causing trouble.
The rest of the advice given here is good advice and I hope you try it out, OP.
There are other ways to shock kids out of a behavior without hitting them, like a shocked reaction on your part and a forceful time-out as well as other things. I disagree that if the child gets away with crap like that at home and at school that you are doomed - YOU set the boundaries with kids as to how YOU and YOUR HOME will be treated. That crap will not be tolerated around you and, if you are consistent, they will learn quickly.
Go watch some Supernanny for some ideas as well as to actually see how you can deal with bedtime better. Watch it WITH your boyfriend - he is a huge, HUGE part of this problem.
Some other tips that might help -
positive attention and praise for good behaviours - for both of them. "oh wow, (hug), you are sitting on the couch so nicely! (while they are watching cartoons), thank you!" or "whoa, that was really polite language! Thank you!" Especially when they are upset about something - praise them right then for "using their words" right when things start up.
Let them make choices - but YOU give them their choices. When it is bedtime and you know a fight about going to bed is coming - give them some time warnings. Hey guys, it's almost bedtime. You can watch one more episode of Dora (or whatever you do) and then we're going to head upstairs to get ready for bed. Dora ends and you turn off the tv while you are praising them for having watched it so nicely and talking to them about the episode - distracting them from starting up a fit about the TV being turned off. Then whip out a couple of books and let them choose which ones to read as you are all walking up the stairs to get ready for bed - they are having some control (choosing the book) but doing what you want them to (going up with you to get ready for bed). You then read the book to them at the end of their bedtime routine and start up with the whole bedtime process.
Choices will help you in a lot of things - read the books Positive Discipline for their age group - you might find it really helpful overall. It talks about concrete examples like how to get your screaming kid off the swings and into the car, etc.
They're not eating their dinner? Give them choices and praise. Holy cow you've eaten almost all of your rice! You need to eat some veggies, though - what are you going to eat next? A broccolli like a dinosaur or a carrot like a rabbit?
Another thing that comes to mind - watch what they are eating on their "weekends with Dad". A diet of processed foods and sugar is bound to give you more hyper kids to deal with. Try feeding them nothing but healthful food from the moment you pick them up to the moment you drop them off. This means no chocolate coated fruit loops in the morning - maybe a nice healthy breakfast of eggs or whole wheat cheerios with a bit of honey instead. NO JUICE, unless it is watered down. No pop. No candy, no ice cream. No McDonald's. No silly freezer pizzas and chicken nuggets. Real, proper food and drinks (water, milk, watered down juice, etc) and see if their behaviors are easier for you to manage when they're not all hyped up.
Get them engaged and doing stuff instead of just watching TV. Bored kids can turn into difficult kids - and the more they do WITH you the more they will like and respect you. Go to a craft store and blow £10 or so on little painting kits, bead kits, sewing kits and craft stuff to make puppets together and crap like that. Whip that out over the weekend and be sure to pack it all up and away right before they start to get bored with it so the novelty sticks. Go places, even just the local park. Get them burning off some energy. Go for walks (and your BF needs to refuse to carry the little one even if she whines and screams and cries - the point is to burn off energy, do something together and set up boundaries).
Turn this whole thing around selfishly to make it easier on YOU.
Give them only really healthy but kid-friendly food (whole wheat pasta with veggies, milk to drink and water - use cool water bottles if need be, no sugar laden breakfasts or treats during the day, lots of fruit (grapes and berries for snacks),etc.) so you are fuelling them up with good energy that won't give them sugar spikes during your time with them, get them out and about burning off that energy (so bedtime is easier and your evening isn't spent with two kids wound up like tops), getting them out gets YOU out and makes the whole day go by much faster, give them choices (which may work out really well for you), don't engage in arguments and BE CONSISTENT in the boundaries you are setting. Watch some supernanny - but there are little things that you can do that may help enormously in this situation.
Sorry for the novel - it sucks to be in your position and I sincerely hope you find something that works.
Chronically hilarious - you'll split your stitches!
I wrote a book! Bucket list CHECK!
http://notesfortheirtherapist.blogspot.co.uk
You didn't dare mouth off to a parent or anybody else --- not a teacher, not another adult, not a grown up neighbor and not to another kid or your sibling ------ and you sure didn't HIT anybody to get your way or scream until you got it!
You did not scream at anyone. Or hit others.
NOT normal and not typical. Understand that.
What you need to do and STAT:
You need to lose this spineless wimp of a boyfriend.
If we as kids even tried to raise our voice to a parent or a teacher or an authority figure? WOW would we get hell. And we would never do it again.
First off:
She is NOT your Stepdaughter --- it is your boyfriend's daughter.
You and he are NOT married.
And second off and most primarily:
It is her father that is a problem. He is the larger problem in this entire picture by fact of the matter he cannot discipline his kids adequately.
Daddy is a doormat....for love of mike, get rid of this guy!
If he can't adequately discipline his own youngster, what is he going to be like IF you marry him???
He'll be just as lackadaisical and as much of a pushover and a wuss for everything, particularly things important and things impacting you and he as a couple.
Why do you want such a wimp for a boyfriend?????
My color commentary follows:
He told me when we started dating that the younger one was a handful and when she was even younger she got everything she wanted and she still does.
Because Daddy is a pushover. That is why. Get rid of him.
I thought to myself oh just like any little girl, how bad can she be.
If you think every little girl is like this, you've got unrealistic and incorrect notions about kids and what they are like at each age. She needs to be well behaved and listen to adults....
Well, she does not listen and uses violence including pinching, kicking, punching and hitting and pulling hair.
And he did not stop this.
WHY?
Wow, what does she do when she is in school??? I am sure she is a big discipline problem and a task for the child study team.
This is not typical behavior for a child nor is it normal.
If she does not get her way right way and when she wants it she either uses violence or screams and then she gets her way either with her sister or her daddy.
I let him handle it because I don't feel like i should lecture her.
So in other words, you know he won't do anything and that's fine by you --- you need to encroach this topic with him. On the side with no kids present.
The sisters get into fights every time they are here because the little one wants something the other one has for example and the older one is stubborn and doesn't like to have things taken from her and then they fight each other. My boyfriend takes them apart but sometimes he just doesn't know what to do. And neither do I. It's just frustrating to not be able to do anything to make it better because it makes everybody miserable. They never want to go to sleep, it takes from 2-4 hours each night for him to get them to sleep. He reads, and stays with them even. The main thing is the little one doesn't want to sleep in her own bed. And when he says no to her she hits him. I've just reached a place where I get really stressful when I know they are coming. Sometimes if he's working late or during the night (he works during various times or the day) and I'm alone with them it's usually like I just let them watch cartoons till they fall asleep because I don't want her to start screaming because when I try and tell her to go to sleep she just doesn't listen and says I'm not going to sleep I'm going to stay awake till daddy comes. Then she constantly says you're not the boss of me, I can do what I want.
I just want to look forward to having them and I want it to be a pleasant time for everybody not a struggle.
Then he is NOT the primary custody. Who has custody of them the rest of the time -- their bio mother or a grand parent?
And what goes on over there -- the same thing????
This entire thing is mind blowing. I think you need to get out of Dodge and as soon as possible. You won't be able to "win" in this case. He won't discipline his kids and all of that should have started once a kid knows YES from NO and knows YOU MAY from SORRY YOU MAY NOT.
I feel like I really loose contact with my boyfriend because he closes up and doesn't want to express himself or talk about it. We have tried different ways but nothing seems to make it any easier, we even tried that I went away and left him alone with them for a day but they still fought and didn't want to go to sleep. She is in complete charge of her dad. What do I do? Is this usual for a mixed family like this? How much time do kids need to adjust? Will it ever get better? Or will it keep getting worse if we continue letting her have her way?
Not usual and not normal.
Leave this guy and stat.
As I said, he is a pushover and a doormat.
As I said, the youngest one --- and the other, from what you are reporting -- are a discipline problem and more and he won't end it.
You do not get "your way" by fighting and that needs to be stopped.
I foresee many happy days ahead for him going to teacher and principal conferences --- these girls need to be attended to and I would not be surprised if this turns into a case for child authorities: WHY is he tolerating this????
And where is their biological mother in all of this???
How did this guy get custody or visitation rights if he can't even discipline his kids so that they are well behaved???
A short list of what was expected of us:
Respect for elders and teachers and others in general, common courtesy and manners and consideration for others, no mouthing off to kids at school, no hitting, no violence and in general being a good kid (do your homework, listen to your teachers, don't get into trouble in school or anywhere else, respect for all adults and all others, to name a few) -- this meant no lying and no answering back anybody at all and doing as you are told, without question and a comeback or screaming.
And if we broke one of these rules --- and it would not be often --- we were in for it but good.
And rememver too: there are a slew of bullying rules and laws now, in many states.
I also see many happy days for your boyfriend responding to many an angry complain from the parents of the kids that they hit in school..."to get their way."
And when a teacher says to do this or that, what do these kids do? I am curious if they've tried this behavior in a school setting.
Rules are rules. Your boyfriend never made any rules and he never enforces things. He's a wimp; get rid of him -- and he is no father figure. Sorry.
They are a discipline problem and that it the bottom line. I do not suspect some type of disorder or something else that requires a doctor's intervention or one from a professional...
Unless somebody here wants to intervention your boyfriend. What a lousy example of an adult and father figure: let the kids do everything they want??? Wrong.
Get rid of this guy and do it NOW.
PS: where does your boyfriend live?? I am surprised the neighbors have not summoned the police when the screaming begins. One never knows these days.:(
If I only saw my girls every second weekend I would not want to spend my time fighting with them. I wouldn't want to spend my time setting boundaries and I would probably be doing everything I could to feel like they still loved me and liked me - taking them to their favorite restaurants, filling my house with treats so they are excited to come over, their rooms would have the biggest TV and the newest Xbox games and they could go to bed whenever they wanted. It would be more important to me that they loved me and coming to my house than it would be that I am being a good parent.
Is that messed up and shooting myself in the foot in the long run? God yes. I'm just saying that I can see how it happens and I don't necessarily think it's out of being a wimp or crappy parent. I think it's out of fear and insecurity as a parent.
Maybe the two of you should take a parenting course or workshop, read some parenting books or blogs or something about how he can be a good, loving parent and that setting boundaries is part of raising your kids in a positive way - they'll still love him if he says no. It sounds like he needs some support and I think it is very admirable that you are so willing to do that.
Good for you Ingaah.
Chronically hilarious - you'll split your stitches!
I wrote a book! Bucket list CHECK!
http://notesfortheirtherapist.blogspot.co.uk
No school or teacher will put up with bad behavior. They are 5 and 6 --- I'm pretty certain the calls from teachers have already begun.
Parenting classes are a good idea -- the bottom line is they need to be taught rules and taught them now.
Counseling for him --- he's got to learn how to stand up for himself -- you need to be a parent and an authority figure, not a pal and/or a pushover.
I have to agree with a lot of the suggestions. He needs to get tougher, but you both need to provide positive reinforcement for good behavior. Make sure that good behavior is rewarded & an appropriate punishment for bad behavior. I'm not saying shower them with presents for being good, but reward them with "nice job sharing that toy with your sister" or since you've been good all day we have time to do xxx fun activity.
Try to plan some fun & busy activities for the girls so when it's bed time, they are tired. I'm wondering if the fighting to go to bed is because she does get so little time with him and she doesn't want to miss any time with him by sleeping in her bed? If he isn't already doing it, maybe he could call the girls each night before their bedtime, on a more regular basis just to talk to them to say hi, how was your day & how was school. I know at that young age it might be pushing it but it sounds like the younger one may need some more daddy time then just every other weekend.
If BF hasn't already talked to their mother, he should, to see if she has similar issues at her house & how she deals with it. This way they can develop a plan where you do this, it's not going to be tolerated at either mom or dad's house and this is going to be the punishment. If they don't get along, they need to figure out their difference so they can become a united front for their girls, else the girls will always act different at each others house
Encourage your BF to build his confidence by taking parenting classes. If he refuses or fails to make progress, I agree it may be a good sign for you to get out of dodge.
TTC since Aug 2011
Type I Diabetic, PCOS
February 16, 2013: First IUI (with Clomid, Pregnyl Trigger Shot and Crinone 8% Gel)
Results of First IUI: BFN
Currently Awaiting Next Cycle...
DD so soon?
I don't spank my kid. If I were the mom and this woman spanked my kid, I'd be on the phone with my lawyer demanding that my ex lose visitation until he agrees that his girlfriend is not allowed anywhere near my kid since she can't control her temper.
That's my guess, anyway.
Both parents are culpable. They get away with blue murder here and blue murder at their mother's house.
And we got whacks accross the bottom. ALL of us did.
And we didn't turn out to be monsters or child abusers or some kind of violent deviants.
What ever happened to "Don't make me come over there"???
The bottom line: These kids are already a discipline problem. The schools they attend must have their hands full with these 2 and the fallout will eventually go to their parents: want child services involved? Want either or both kids to lose their year because of being out of control?
There is a child study team, I am sure, at his school district -- and at the school district of the kids' mother. He needs to meet with them --- it would help -- and tell the professional there chapter and verse what's happening. He could find out how to get intervention for them.
Perhaps he is overwhelmed and embarrassed and outnumbered: He needs to seek professional help regarding this.
Where I came from it was lights out at X time and no fts ands or buts.
This is what I said: if he's ineffectual as a parent, he will be ineffectual with everything else.
I still say you need to leave. You and he are not a match: he can't control his kids and you need somebody who can be a father as well as a husband.
These kids both need to be seen by a psychologist or psychiatrist --- one that specializes in children's services. I don't think time outs and revoked privlledges adn positive reinforcement will work as of right now, even if Dear Ole Dad started to do it today.
Many of the scientific studies on smacking are total nonsense, they don't just look at smacking but included beating with a stick and some of them included really freaky stuff like threatening kids with guns or even burning them. A review of all published studies in 1996 (Larzelere) found only 8 studies that validly examined the effects of mild physical punishment. All eight studies, including four randomised clinical trials, found that nonabusive smacking benefited children when it backed up milder disciplinary tactics with children aged 2 to 6 years.
EDIT: Having said that, I agree with other posters that there are additional issues with smacking other people's kids, I assumed that the OP and her boyfriend would tackle the kids behaviours together so maybe this is one for the boyfriend.
But how many people are "calm and controlled" when they hit their kids?? Usually it's done out of anger and spur of the moment. I've never heard of anyone spanking their kid calmly. It's something a lot of parents resort to when they're frustrated, at the end of their ropes and feel like they've tried everything else. Plus I think it's just a ridiculously confusing message to give a kid, because we're always trying to tell them that hitting is wrong, and there is no other circumstance in life when hitting someone is an appropriate problem solving method. There's also tons of evidence that kids raised in authoritarian households just get really, really good at hiding stuff from their parents.
Bottom line: He can't and won't control them.
How is he a good match for the OP?
He isn't a good match for the OP or anybody else.
The OP needs to look elsewhere for a boyfriend...and she also needs some etiquette rules. As we said, it is a boyfriend. Therefore these kids are NOT your stepkids. You and he are not married.
It's got to stop.
And the parents is where it begins.
Plus if you can be "calm" while choosing to hit your child, then you're worse than someone who loses their shit. And you're lazy because there are a million other ways to discipline your kid without acting like a kid yourself.
YOu can give a 5 and a 6 year old a time out and revoked privleges and they will understand that Daddy or Mommy is upset and the kid's done a very bad thing.
My kids have gotten a swat on the bum before, as well as on the hand but never have we put them over our knee or anything of the sort.
That doesn't make me a lazy parent or even a poor parent - it just makes me a different parent than you - nor do I think that either your or my children will grow up to be violent serial killers or creepy Christian spouse-spankers.
Well, hopefully.
Chronically hilarious - you'll split your stitches!
I wrote a book! Bucket list CHECK!
http://notesfortheirtherapist.blogspot.co.uk
And no, it's not rude. It's my opinion. I think that calmly choosing to hit your child is worse than losing your temper and doing it and then feeling like an asshole for it. And I think it's lazy because there are a million more constructive ways to achieve the same goal. Call it whatever you want. Hitting/spanking/swatting whatever. It's all using physical punishment. If you did it to your spouse, they could press charges. Just because a kid can't call a lawyer doesn't mean they don't deserve the same respect as your spouse/mother/friend etc.