Middle class

daisy662 · March 2014

Growing up making $100,000 a year was considered "a lot of money" to me. I personally think now that is middle class. What do you consider middle class, upper class, etc? I'm just curious. I know it depends on cost of living areas, etc. but generally speaking. I think upper /middle class is probably a family income over $250,000. I think if you are making that or more as a family you are doing pretty good but not "rich". I would consider making over $500,000 "rich". Just curious as to others perspectives for no good reason other than that I am bored. Lol

jessica490 · March 2014

I don't know, but what I do know is that this thread is going to make me feel poor

IAmSherlocked · March 2014

This is something I haven't really given much thought to, but DH actually brought it up the other day. He considers us to be solidly middle class, just shy of upper middle class, but I consider us more lower-middle class. The reason he gave is that we are much more financially comfortable than pretty much all of our friends/relatives that are in our age group--most of whom are really struggling. He grew up in family that was always comfortable and was able to put money away for the future and to help their kids with college, which is basically how he defines being middle class (being able to save money and be comfortable)

For me, it's all relative. When I was younger we lived in Miami and my parents were recent immigrants and didn't make much money or speak much English (we were lucky if we had money to take the bus to the grocery store some days). By the time I was in high school we had moved to Colorado and my dad was/is making about $150K which compared to when I was little felt like we were swimming in cash. However we lived in a part of town where that amount of money was on the lower end of the pay scale so in a way it still felt like we were lower class because most of my classmates lived in huge houses and made at least double what my dad did.

I guess that didn't really answer your question though and was just a bunch of rambling, haha. If I had to break it down I'd have to say middle class starts at around $100,000, upper middle class starts around $250,000 and then anything over $400,000 would be upper class.

It's a weird thing for me to think about because I used to work for a legal aid office and in order for people to qualify for our services they had to be within a certain percentage of what the government considers the poverty line and most people that I worked with fell way below that threshold. For me it sort of puts things into perspective.

Wow--I seriously am incapable of writing a short response to anything. Geez! Sorry for the novel, haha.

vlagrl29 · March 2014

daisy662 said:

Growing up making $100,000 a year was considered "a lot of money" to me. I personally think now that is middle class. What do you consider middle class, upper class, etc? I'm just curious. I know it depends on cost of living areas, etc. but generally speaking. I think upper /middle class is probably a family income over $250,000. I think if you are making that or more as a family you are doing pretty good but not "rich". I would consider making over $500,000 "rich". Just curious as to others perspectives for no good reason other than that I am bored. Lol

I think the same as you

emily1004 · March 2014

I think it depends where you live. It also depends on how you categorize it. In NYC and SF, $250K HH income is maybe lower middle class, if that. But if you research the numbers all across the US, the average HH income is $55K. To some people that might be middle class.

In the state we live, $250K is upper class for most people in most areas. My H and I consider ourselves upper middle class. But we are both in our 30's and we didn't start out that way.

spalko · March 2014

Man, I'm dirt poor in your eyes! However, we are able to pay our bills monthly, set money aside for retirement, savings, kids, etc, and not live paycheck-to-paycheck. H and I combined don't make anywhere near $100,000 but we are very comfortable for where we live.

Wulfgar · March 2014

From having made a lot of different annual incomes over the years and watching how my parents prioritized how they spent money, I would say that currently middle class for a family of 2 starts at 40k, the more children you have the more money you will need so the bottom is a sliding scale. The upper range of true middle class is in the 120 to 150K range. Above roughly 150K in most areas, you are considered upper middle class, lower rich.

SmrBrd2012 · March 2014

To me, the thought of a family making under 100k being considered lower class is crazy! I come from a single parent household where my mom barely scraped by at some points. That I consider lower class...just barely getting by. H and I make slightly less than 100k combined now and I think we are solidly middle class. We live in the suburbs of a major metropolitan area if it matters.

ashleyjesse1112 · March 2014

I also think 100k seems like lower-middle class. Since November our income combined is roughly 95k a year on our jobs. Granted, we are saving all of our extra money for a house, I still feel as poor as I was when I made 25k and lived on my own (just 1.5yrs ago)... but that's probably because of our super tight budget for buying a house. I keep thinking if we had children right now, how we would be so tight on money. I never thought I would think that way about households bringing in 100k. I would say upper middle class is probably 250k, and lower class starts around 75k. I also live in the Seattle area...

IAmSherlocked · March 2014

ashleyjesse1112 said:

I also think 100k seems like lower-middle class. Since November our income combined is roughly 95k a year on our jobs. Granted, we are saving all of our extra money for a house, I still feel as poor as I was when I made 25k and lived on my own (just 1.5yrs ago)... but that's probably because of our super tight budget for buying a house. I keep thinking if we had children right now, how we would be so tight on money. I never thought I would think that way about households bringing in 100k. I would say upper middle class is probably 250k, and lower class starts around 75k. I also live in Seattle...

This sounds like us too! We just bought our house so we freed up some of our budget now (esp. now that we're paying less than we did for rent), but I can't imagine throwing a kid into this. I'd like to ideally feel a little more stable before starting a family and have some more cash saved up, but that's probably some of my own insecurities from having lived through not having enough as a young kid.

I know it was tough on my parents when I was growing up, but I guess I always considered our family as being "working poor" (until I was a teen) which for some reason in my mind has always been a different category than "lower class"...or I guess it's a sub-category of lower class really. I never thought about why I've always felt those were separate though. This is really causing me to think about how I feel about this...

artbyallie · March 2014

The thing is, everybody wants to think they're middle-class. Or maybe upper-middle at best. No one wants to think they're poor, but no one wants to admit they're wealthy. Per the below chart, whether someone made 100k in 1979 or 100k in 2007, they'd be in the top fifth either way, albeit in the middle of that fifth then and the bottom of it now. I'd classify the fifths as follows: lowest, poor; second, lower-middle; third, middle class; fourth, upper-middle; fifth, upper class; top one percent, filthy rich (LOL). Even that puts 3/5 of the population into 'middle class' whether upper or lower, but what it doesn't do is call 100k household income any kind of 'middle class.'

Now, yes, cost of living is not taken into account, and that can change things a little bit, but 100k is still going to be at least upper-middle IMO. It can still afford you the kinds of luxuries that some people making it take for granted, but middle class and lower people feel they may never have.

Table 1: Average After-Tax Income by Income Group 1979 - 2007 (in 2007 dollars)
Income Category	1979	2007	Percent Change 1979-2007	Dollar Change 1979-2007
Lowest fifth	$15,300	$17,700	16%	$2,400
Second fifth	$31,000	$38,000	23%	$7,000
Middle fifth	$44,100	$55,300	25%	$11,200
Fourth fifth	$57,700	$77,700	35%	$20,000
Top fifth	$101,700	$198,300	95%	$96,600
Top 1 Percent	$346,600	$1,319,700	281%	$973,100

tigerfighter · March 2014

I consider myself low middle class (it makes me feel better) at $40k a year, but the majority of my friends and soon to be ex make all way less than me.

Xstatic3333 · March 2014

I'm with SmrBrd and Wulfgar...my version of middle class starts on the lower side. We make just under 100,000 combined in the MCOL suburb of a high COL city. We pay our bills, including SLs, and have enough left over for gifts, saving for a house, and retirement contributions. We can even save for nice trips using cash since it's a priority for us. If we had a child we could do it (yup, I've done the math) but it would be tough since our income is about 50/50 so we'd need to pay for daycare. I consider us a solid middle class.

I think two things are at play here. What "looks" like middle class is only really affordable to the upper middle class these days, but many charge to keep up with the Joneses. Also, many former middle class professions are being automated, so good middle class jobs are hard to come by. I consider us a new version of middle class that may just not look as good as our parents' version.

Here's my cutoffs for a family of two in suburban MA: $40,000-$60,000 lower middle, $60,000-$130,000 middle, $130,000-$200,000 upper middle. It's a big range, but I just don't think lower class unless there's serious trouble making ends meet, and I don't think upper class until money is barely any object.

tigerfighter · March 2014

I like Xstatic's breakdown and she is not far from me.

vlagrl29 · March 2014

compared to xstatics breakdown our gross income qualifies us for middle, but our net income after deductions would have us in poverty level.

KatieCutie05 · March 2014

Wow I feel poor now. But honestly this depends mostly on the area you live. A household income of 100k in say Los Angeles or New York probably is close to lower middle class..... But where I live its close to upper middle class... 250k is rich and 500k is holy cow your loaded.

I'd say I'm probably middle class now although I feel really poor with my student loan payments.... A debt free couple with my income would be doing pretty good if you ask me.

I really think it should be based on net worth instead of purely income for that reason. Of course then I'd be considered dirt poor so who knows.

Xstatic3333 · March 2014

vlagrl29 said:
compared to xstatics breakdown our gross income qualifies us for middle, but our net income after deductions would have us in poverty level.

Good point-I was thinking in terms of gross there. I was also thinking in terms of childless couples, and I know you have a LO. I think with kids the cutoffs would change a bit. I've actually been mulling this around since I posted it a few hours ago and I'm not sure if $40,000 for two people in my area would be middle class anymore. I've always had a little more than that per person, but I've also always had debt (due to my own poor choices starting promptly at age 18). I'd imagine that without debt you could have a bare-bones middle class lifestyle with that income, but I am just truly imagining.

vlagrl29 · March 2014

Xstatic3333 said:

compared to xstatics breakdown our gross income qualifies us for middle, but our net income after deductions would have us in poverty level.
Good point-I was thinking in terms of gross there. I was also thinking in terms of childless couples, and I know you have a LO. I think with kids the cutoffs would change a bit. I've actually been mulling this around since I posted it a few hours ago and I'm not sure if $40,000 for two people in my area would be middle class anymore. I've always had a little more than that per person, but I've also always had debt (due to my own poor choices starting promptly at age 18). I'd imagine that without debt you could have a bare-bones middle class lifestyle with that income, but I am just truly imagining.

it's all relative. we do have a kid but she is pretty low maintenance financially thank god. We deduct anything we can from our taxes so we don't have to owe as much at the end of the year. I would say we are middle class regardless of gross vs. net. It's all about how you manage your money. A person could make a shit ton of money but be living a lifestyle that's way beyond means. I'm happy being pretty minimalistic on my needs. Although I could seriously kill for real wood floors in our home.

jessica490 · March 2014

spalko said:

Man, I'm dirt poor in your eyes! However, we are able to pay our bills monthly, set money aside for retirement, savings, kids, etc, and not live paycheck-to-paycheck. H and I combined don't make anywhere near $100,000 but we are very comfortable for where we live.

This is us.

daisy662 · March 2014

So interesting to see everyone's different perspectives!

Xstatic3333 · March 2014

daisy662 said:
So interesting to see everyone's different perspectives!

Agree! If middle class is more of a lifestyle than an income bracket, it really depends on where you live, family size, expenses, etc. where the cutoff lies.

formerlyGDaisy09 · March 2014

Does it have more to do with what you're able to do with your money? H and I get close to the $100,000 combined, but because of student loans etc. we scrape by month-to-month. we've built up an OK e-fund, but we haven't been able to go on a vacation in 5 years, and we sacrifice small wants all the time for needs. I'll consider us upper-middle class once we've taken care of our student loans, can go on at least one vacation a year, and can go out to dinner or I can treat myself to a pedicure without feeling guilty.

cbee817 · March 2014

I feel like $50 - $100 is lower middle class, $100 - $250 is middle class, $250 - $750 is upper middle, and $750+ is wealthy. I don't know where I came up with those numbers, but that would put DH and I at middle class, which seems right to me.

moonprincessd · March 2014

Middle class being $100,000 is too high unless maybe you live in an expensive state like Hawaii or California. That's more likely upper middle.

Which proves my point, it totally varies. We make over $50,000 and consider ourselves middle class. We have a house, we're not in debt, we have 2 cars, etc...

brij2006 · March 2014

Xstatic3333 said:

So interesting to see everyone's different perspectives!
Agree! If middle class is more of a lifestyle than an income bracket, it really depends on where you live, family size, expenses, etc. where the cutoff lies.

This is how I feel about it. We live in a LCOL area where the average HH income to raise a 4 person family is $35k. One of us alone makes over that. So in our area we're considered middle-high class or even "rich" to some. But nationally we are in the top fifth.
It really all depends on how that person spends the money. I've lived in Chicago area where people spend twice what they make just to keep up with the Jones'. So I've watched someone who makes $500k/year spend frivulously and have the means of a $50k earner.

Keeptruckin · March 2014

In our HCOL city median family income is 92,000. So to me that is middle class. I feel we are middle class even though we don't make that because we have no debt, live in a good neighbourhood, etc.

Sisugal · March 2014

Obama considers those with a household income of 250K as rich.

daisy662 · March 2014

Sisugal said:

Obama considers those with a household income of 250K as rich.

This is crazy to me. We make more than $250k in a medium col area and have little debt and I don't feel rich at all. I feel like middle/upper middle class.

vlagrl29 · March 2014

daisy662 said:

Sisugal said:

Obama considers those with a household income of 250K as rich.

This is crazy to me. We make more than $250k in a medium col area and have little debt and I don't feel rich at all. I feel like middle/upper middle class.

Honestly I would feel rich if we made that much money. It doesn't take much for me though to feel like that. I wouldn't have to make 1mil to feel rich.

Sisugal · March 2014

Being rich and feeling rich are two different things.
Also remember -- you can outspend any income.

daisy662 · March 2014

Sisugal said:

Being rich and feeling rich are two different things.
Also remember -- you can outspend any income.

True i suppose, but we don't outspend our income by any stretch of the imagination. We certainly aren't living paycheck to paycheck and are able to have a nice house and 2 nice cars that are paid off along with other nice things. But, I think of rich as not having to think twice before making a semi large purchase ($5000?). I have to really sit and think about buying something for even a few hundred. Maybe I'm just cheap Lol!

Middle class

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