Help us figure out new plan. I'm stuck.

Xstatic3333 · July 2014

FabulousMrs.P said:
Also, is there any way you can get a second job until the baby gets here? Even if you got a job at target or babies r us or something where you can get a discount and slowly stock up on things you will need. I don't know what your full time job or health is like so I don't know if that is a possibility. I waited tables Saturday nights in addition to my M-F full time job and it helped to bring in a lot of extra cash which we put away for infertility treatments and then baby expenses. I waited tables until I was 8 months pregnant but I had a fairly routine pregnancy (except for morning sickness for 6 months...but that just became part of my routine.)

It might help your husband feel a bit more togetherness with the debt payoff and it would help you to save up money for baby expenses.

Thats a good idea! I worked at Target a few years ago, and they were really flexible with people balancing it with a full-time job. Plus, 10% discount

I know if you live in the country that makes it tougher though.

hoffse · July 2014

I think Xstatic hit the nail on the head. It's the attitude more than anything. I was actually kind of outraged that he just announced he was going to buy a $22K vehicle and the $3500 boat is the "compromise" because he "needs something." That's not a compromise. The $22K vehicle is a threat - it really is. And the boat is something you are offering him out of desperation in the hopes that he not just go out and obligate you guys to this expensive vehicle. Baby or not, that's a lot of money and one spouse does not get to make that kind of decision unilaterally. Being 100% honest here, I think the entire thing was pretty manipulative and astonishingly selfish, particularly given your pregnancy.

I also think that before you guys buy a boat (whenever) you need to know the full costs. It's not just fuel. He has to maintain it, he has to insure it, he has to be able to haul it from point A to point B if he's ever going to actually use it. Didn't you say he drives a small sedan? Yeah, that boat isn't going anywhere but your driveway until he also gets his large vehicle so he can haul the damn thing. A boat (any boat) is really not the cheap option here.

I also think Xstatic is correct that you don't have to be all-in with the TMM to pay off debt. It can be a great strategy for relatively short-term situations or people who are truly drowning. But when you're talking about years and years and years.... yeah, you need some cash to live a little. Maybe not to buy a boat, but it's ok to go out to eat once in awhile. H and I once ran the numbers and determined we could pay off our loans in 5 years if we cut out everything non-essential, which would probably make us miserable. Or we could take 7-8 years and be able to take a couple vacations, go out to eat a couple times a month, and buy new clothes now and then. We decided that 5 years of being miserable (early in our marriage) was not worth the 2-3 years we were saving in our loans. We will still be done before most of our co-workers, but we aren't going to resent each other while doing it.

There is definitely a mid-way point between needing a little financial flexibility so he can get drinks with his buddies vs. buying a boat while you are pregnant. I fully understand his need to live a little. But what he's asking for is way too much right now, and the way he's trying to get you to agree is appalling.

Finally, Xstatic is also right that the internet can twist things. So I apologize if I've misunderstood how all this played out. It's just the impression I've gotten, and I'm reacting to that.

FabulousMrs.P · July 2014

Oh, and I also wanted to mention that as excited as my hubby was that we were expecting after 2 year of ttc, he still totally had a freak out moment where he was convinced that he suddenly wasn't going to be able to live life anymore once a baby came. It passed once we sat down and spoke about his fears. And while we don't have as much time for hobbies, he still gets to go out and do some of the things he loves.

Just wanted to let you know that it happens with guys...and they still turn out to be great dads! I think the reality of things just hits them a little differently than it does us.

smbenevides1989 · July 2014

All the others have really said it. He needs a reality check and needs to stop thinking about himself. I really hope you guys can get on the same page.

Congrats on your pregnancy and H&H 9 months.

vlagrl29 · July 2014

Yep, my DH had a freak out too when I had to work A LOT less and barely had any of my teaching money coming in. This was during the recession too. Being the sole provider freaked him out, but after baby was born and he had been doing it for almost a year it was nothing different to him and he is proud about it. Now we live solely on his paycheck, $500 or so of my teaching money and the rest of the money I make goes into various savings accounts.

OP I think you need to start with baby steps. Work with your DH on having a budget that seems fair to both of you and a pay back debt plan that is fair to you both as well. It may make him feel better if you had your loan term on a longer 25-30 plan. You can still pay more on that at any time. You also need to set up a delivery savings during your 9 months which talking to the doctor and insurance will help you with. The maximum we will have to pay for our next baby will only be $4500 because that is our maximum OOP. We paid $7500 last time. Saving money for decorating babies room and buying baby necessities needs to be part of that plan as well. Your DH NEEDS to put off buying that boat for awhile. Have that talk with him after you set up your new plan because then he sees in black and white what is coming out of your accounts and what needs to be saved and how much $$ you will have left over after that. Just my 2 cents.

formerlyGDaisy09 · July 2014

out of curiosity what is it about the boat that is so inticing to him? does he want to work on the engine? go out and do watersports with his guy friends? go fishing?

where is he going to use this boat? ocean? lake?

You and your H need to get on the same page, and I agree that this is not necessariliy a voting issue, there simply isn't money for everything and you guys can't finance anything else. At the least the purchasing of a boat needs to be delayed until you and baby are home and healthy and medical bills have been taken care of.

this ABSOLUTELY sounds like keeping-up with the Joneses, and that won't stop at the boat. I've watched my SIL allow her husband to play that game, new guns, he goes Jeeping and breaks his care regularly, buying new "boyztoyz", as his vanity plate says, regularly. While she is continutally trying to sell furniture and old kids clothes to make ends meet, looking for free or cheap child care for her 3 kids so she can pick up some extra hours, they add and drop their internet service from their apartment all the time, EVERYTHING becomes an emergency for them, and I don't think that is a situation that you want to end-up in.

I would consider looking into counseling, and maybe find a financial advisor. My H and I are not avid DR followers, although from following this board it seems that we've already been doing a lot of what he says is "right". for my H and I it took meeting with a Financial advisor for him to see that I wasn't just being anal retentive about money, that there were experts that thought we should be handling things differently and helped us focus on our goals.

strickland8052 · July 2014

Is there something that your H might be able to do that is less expensive than a boat? When we first got married, my H thought he was going to get to buy $800 guns every other month and spend hundreds of dollars on bullets and going to the shooting range.... ugh... no. I encouraged him to take up a less expensive hobby (biking). He bought a $70 bike off of craigslist and now he tinkers with it all day and goes on bike rides every once in awhile. He probably spends about $50 a month on unnecessary bike gear, but whatever...at least it isn't as expensive as a gun. Meanwhile, I gave up my interest in horses (way too expensive) and I instead jog as a hobby. Find a middle ground.

KatieCutie05 · July 2014

Yea i definitely think he had a freak out moment. He had one or 2 before. Last time we contemplated selling both cars for a while and then finally discovered it doesn't make any sense and his car isn't THAT bad and he should just keep it. he really hates his car. I think he just floats along until he gets so outraged and he just flips. We fight about it for a day or two.. talk about it.... try to compromise and then eventually he'll give in and he's okay with waiting longer. Atleast thats how its been. This time, getting this boat now is mainly because he can only get his dads old boat this fall and after that its gone. and he really wants that particular boat because its so cheap and he's invested SO much time in it when he was in hs/college until a few years ago his dad just upped and sold it and didn't even ask him if he wanted it. So for 3500 he wants to just get it and make it work. i mean this boat has history. But if we don't have the cash then theres not much of a choice and i think if it really came down to it and we didn't have the money then he'd let it go. he'd hate it but i think he would. IF my grandmas money came through in time and we have enough to pay off my car and get that boat without using baby money, and he gets his raise, then it might just work out.. but theres a lot of IF's in that sentence.

Maybe its my fault for saying no to all the little things. I'm okay with not having a life but he's not and maybe if i'm okay with the occasional 1k a year then he'd be okay waiting on the bigger ticket items cus he wouldn't feel as deprived. He's been wanting a 1500 rifle to get into long distance shooting and i've always said no. But maybe that wouldn't be the worst thing in the world. or maybe the 90 a month for 6 months to take the crav maga classes wouldn't be the end of the world either. maybe i am being too controlling.

He lives in a world where he's constantly reminded of what he doesn't have and watches everyone else DO all the things he can't afford to do. He knows WAY too may well off people or honestly its just people like him that they make a little more sure - but they just married a girl who didn't have 100k in student loans. he gave up his truck and everything when we got married and got on the DR plan and he's regretted it for a while . He honestly feels like he's not himself. He's not really trying to show off or keep up with the joneses- its just that he HAD ALL of it before me. and now that he's got me he had to give it all up because of us trying to pay off my student loans and then plans failed and got slowed down and now they are ruined and he's just having a really hard time with watching life pass him by and he's heard one too many horror stories of people saying you can't get anything with a baby. "youll never get that once you have a baby, you never have money to do anything when you have a baby". i sware if i hear someone say that to him again i'm just going to punch them in the face. lol. I'm like the only voice in his world that is telling him we are the exception and we're not gonna be broke forever just because we have kids.

FabulousMrs.P · July 2014

If I were you I would sit down together and make a budget. He can see what money comes in and what has to go out in bills. Make sure you add in the baby expenses (diapers, wipes, formula (budget for it even if you don't plan on using it), doctor visits, baby clothes, and of course daycare.) Try to form a budget together. He will feel more a part of things and sometimes see things in black and white (ie we can't even afford daycare right now) helps to put things in perspective. Also, then maybe you can figure out if you can put a small amount of money aside in a savings account towards [boat, car, gun] so that in the future you can buy that thing without going into debt. I know that helps my husband. He knows that at least his dreams are being accounted for even if it is only $20 a month going into the account. It helps him to realize that we are going to get there one day.

I understand having things and losing them, however, you also have to live in reality or you will never be able to change the lifestyle he hates so much. Adding debt to debt doesn't help you get to the place where you buy those things without worrying about where the money is going to come from. And remind him, once certain things are paid off, then that money can go to something else. Are you guys doing anything to help show how much you are paying off...chart you can color in or something along those lines? Sometimes that helps.

When hubby was out of work, my hubby was feeling quite depressed that we couldn't go out on a date night. I made a set of cards that were cheap date nights. Things like getting a movie out of the library and making popcorn at home, getting a book about star constellations from the library and doing a night time picnic while star-gazing. Each week we would pick a card from the deck and have a special date night together that cost us pretty much nothing. It helped to reward us without spending money. Maybe you can do something like that for him...either with date nights or activities he can do as hobbies that wouldn't cost much. My hubby was so stuck at looking at what he couldn't do that he forgot what he COULD do! Use the free resources around you...I could get a movie from the library for a week for free vs renting one, we went to state parks for hikes, etc. If he has a fishing pole and all he needs is a fishing license, they are pretty inexpensive and he could go fishing for just the cost of bait.

brij2006 · July 2014

It would probably be a good idea for you guys to add some "mad money" into your budget. That is part of DR's plan too. It's money that you budget in for each person and they get to spend it however they please. If it means saving it for the next 2 years to buy something big, then they can do that. Or if it's to spend it on nail polish and gourmet coffee, then they can. We did not do this at the beginning of his plan, but just last month we started budgeting in $20 for each of us in "mad money." We're both very thankful to have this, because H is saving it up for a car part he wants, and I use it to buy friends random gifts. Both things we love, but don't approve to be in the budget.

We lived the same way as you two before getting married. Our life was pretty lavish honestly, and we did very well for ourselves. Then we realized how much money was being wasted and how much it would help to put that toward debt each month and get it over with. Keep reminding him that "live like no-one else today so you can live like no-one else later." It is totally true. We live like nobody we know. We say no to going out to eat with friends, no to movies, no to vacations. While we watch everyone we know post pictures of their European trip or talk about the new movie that came out. However, just in the past 7 months we've paid off almost 1/4th of our student loans and unlike our friends, we appreciate being able to go out on 1 date night per month and it meaning something special because it's the only one we budget in for. It really has taught us to live simply and appreciate the thing we do have. It's hard, but your H can do it. He just needs to get in a different mindset about it.

Do you do the budget together each month? I almost feel like maybe you put it together, then show it to him, and he's supposed to live how you say. Which of course can build some resentment. Have him help you with the budget, discuss anything that's coming up in that month that needs added, and have him help you reconcile it at the end of the month. Get him fully hands on in doing this.

hoffse · July 2014

Loosening up on the little things might be a better approach. But they need to be within reason.

Keep in mind too that even though your H sees his friends spending all this money.... that doesn't mean his friends can afford it. Plenty of people live way beyond their means, and it makes those of us who don't feel deprived when we look at what they are doing. I know I've mentioned this before, but my law firm's women's group once had a financial consultant come and talk to us. She asked us to raise our hand if we had credit card debt. At the time I was the the most junior lawyer there, I had gone to the most expensive law school, I was the only one whose spouse/significant other was not working (in school), and I was the only person who didn't raise my hand. All the rest of them managed to overspend their incomes. It was really eye-opening, and I try to remind myself of that moment when I start to get frustrated by the things I feel like we can't afford to do.

I also agree with Mrs.P - having a particular goal (the gun for instance) and making an effort to put money toward that might help him feel like his needs are being heard and will eventually be met. Everybody has "their" thing that they want to spend money on, and as long as it works in the budget that's fine.

vlagrl29 · July 2014

You don't have to be "rich" and by monetary things to be happy in life. We have our health and enjoy our family. IMO we are "rich". If you think about the family you have, all your friends, health, general happiness you are already rich in life.

You can still buy things after baby comes. We still take great vacations once a year and are saving for a hot tub for our patio. I occasionally buy a coach bag, get pedicures. But I budget it in and save up for things like that. It's not like life becomes non existent after you have a kid, it actually becomes much better.

smerka · July 2014

I agree with what Hoffse said above and would add that your DH needs to realize he's growing up. He needs to start thinking of the things he has gained, you and a new baby, instead of the things he's lost.

smbenevides1989 · July 2014

I was doing that also. I had budgeted to the bare minimums and we were still spending more than we were supposed to. DH started to have resentment because I was limiting what he was doing, then in turn he was spending money on his CC. When I rebudgeted to add in extra fun money for each of us, added a little more money to go out to eat each week, and added money for a family night, he in turn became a much happier person. He now takes his "allowance" and either saves it for something he wants, or spends it on food and beer. Since we have taken this approach, we have saved so much better than ever before.

Its definitely not true what they say about losing it all after having kids. Will your budget be a little tighter? Yes, because of what is involved (daycare, formula, diapers, wipes, clothes) but as long as you budget your money the right way, you will be able to have all that and more without using CC.

We have taken trips every year since DD was born, and we will still continue to go on trips when DD#2 is born in September. Our first big trip after she's born is to Disney in December. We enjoy traveling and will continue to travel. I'm already starting to save up money to pay off a trip to Georgia in June because one of my BFs are getting married and he traveled to mine last year. And I'm bringing both kids.

It's all how you take today's approach. I also choose to extend my SLs so I can enjoy my life and not feel deprived.

KAdams767 · July 2014

I am sorry, I am just not understanding where your husband's sense of entitlement to all of these things you keep mentioning comes from. Was he formerly well-off or in a much better financial situation? You keep blaming yourself and your mistakes with your student loans as the reason that he can't "have a life", but he needs a reality check because this situation is not all on you and those student loans. Based on your previous post with his income in it, to be blunt, he doesn't make the kind of money needed to support expensive hobbies and toys. I think it's really crappy that he is making you feel like it's your fault that he doesn't have any of this stuff. Because leaving you out of his finances entirely, I don't really see how how would be able to afford most of this stuff on his own anyhow.

You said he previously had all of this stuff. How was he able to afford it?

MommyLiberty5013 · July 2014

OP, I think you also said that you live in a rural area? Why don't you guys move to a place where you can get jobs that pay more?

The debt can only go away with the money you earn and save, so why not try to increase the income side of things?

katlizabeth · July 2014

vlagrl29 said:

You don't have to be "rich" and by monetary things to be happy in life. We have our health and enjoy our family. IMO we are "rich". If you think about the family you have, all your friends, health, general happiness you are already rich in life.

You can still buy things after baby comes. We still take great vacations once a year and are saving for a hot tub for our patio. I occasionally buy a coach bag, get pedicures. But I budget it in and save up for things like that. It's not like life becomes non existent after you have a kid, it actually becomes much better.
I had to quote this, because it bears repeating. I can't figure out how to nightlight on my IPad, but the last sentence, "it's not like life becomes non-existent after you have a kid, it actually becomes much better." Different, yes. But better, much, much better.

vlagrl29 said:

You don't have to be "rich" and by monetary things to be happy in life. We have our health and enjoy our family. IMO we are "rich". If you think about the family you have, all your friends, health, general happiness you are already rich in life.

You can still buy things after baby comes. We still take great vacations once a year and are saving for a hot tub for our patio. I occasionally buy a coach bag, get pedicures. But I budget it in and save up for things like that. It's not like life becomes non existent after you have a kid, it actually becomes much better.

Help us figure out new plan. I'm stuck.

Re: Help us figure out new plan. I'm stuck.

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