Money Before Baby

lifeonthehill · March 2015

jacobsgorgeous said:
It's a personal decision. Some people plan as much as they can, others don't. I don't want this to sound negative but sometimes pregnancy is a surprise and there's less than 9 months to plan. There's no formal rule.

blondie42107: That's one of the things I've told him.

This is going to be different for everyone. We weren't even married until 31 so that age limit is out for us (plus the increased risks are pretty negligible anyways). Our goal is to have our student loans paid off and $100K in retirement before baby. We're going to start trying in May, and those goals will likely take a year and a half to accomplish, so they may happen or they might not.

als1982 : How do you plan to be able to get 100K in a year and a half? It still sounds like a lot to me. and if you don't reach it by then, will you put off having a baby?

noffgurl: 1) Thanks for that advise. It's something I've looked into a little and most likely I'll be a SAHM with maybe some sort of self-employment or part-time job. Does Efund refer to emergency fund? 2) So sorry to hear about the miscarriage and your misfortunes. 3) I really like your suggestions though some of them will be difficult to estimate because circumstances especially our jobs will be changing possibly a couple times in the next 3 years. 4) Sounds like I'm going to have do more research on it. I had to take genetics and it meant learning all the dirty parts of DNA.

formerlyGDaisy09: That's sounds like a fairly realistic plan. Fortunately we only have about 2,000 SL. Are you OK putting off ttc for that long? Is the source of the decision purely from following through on that goal or is there more involved?

simplyelise: I like that focus more. I just want to focus on who I want me/us to be than on the money, because no matter how much we have (within reason) I feel like it'll matter less than who we are.

bcarb: The other thing I'm worried about is agreeing to a plan and having him freakout if things don't go according to that plan.

als1982: I'm definitely going to need to do more research. My mom had me at 35, so I understand that it's not everyone and a high percent are fine, but on the other hand I'll also need to do research on whether medical costs rise with age of the pregnant woman too.

alyssa32713: Did pushing it back cause tension at all for you, because you were ready or at least wanting to try?

New questions: Would you think about getting your fertility on both ends checked before making such a plan just to be sure that you individually don't have higher risks of becoming infertile earlier or anything along those lines? Also how did you guys come to your decisions, were there any tensions making these particular decisions?

I have to admit we have had two blow out fights over this. One was when we decided to TTC in May instead. Blow outs for us so far are us yelling at each other about a topic and crying my heart out. We separate for half an hour or so and come back with more rational points. The first time I saw his side and agreed the second time he saw mine and agreed. Besides tension during these fights and during conversations about TTC specifically, it has never effected our day to day life.

I am only 23 and I was raised Mormon. I have a strong desire for children and have watched all of my childhood friends have 2+ babies now. Marrying a man who wanted to wait has been incredibly difficult. I know we will be better off in the long run because we have waited though.

hoffse · March 2015

PP's have given you great advice.

Unfortunately, you are going to have to do some serious research to answer this question for your specific situation. Healthcare costs vary hugely. H and I are on single plans, and mine is fully subsidized by my employer. But if we stayed with my employer for family insurance, our costs would increase 8x for a family plan. Not even joking. With my H's plan it's a 4x increase for a family plan once we have a kid. But having a second kid doesn't increase our healthcare costs at all.

Daycare is actually subsidized by my job if we don't use their health insurance - but only for one child. With a second child we will pay full price. The going rate for full-time infant care in our area is $900-$1000/month.

So for our family we estimate that one child will cost us about $1300/month more than we currently spend. A second child will cost an additional $1,000/month. 529 contributions for college will be on top of that. But that's entirely based on our options for healthcare, the benefits I can leverage through my employer, the cost of local childcare, our general spending tendencies, etc. Your numbers are almost certainly going to be different from ours.

PP is correct that if you stay home you must include loss of income as a "cost" when figuring this out. Obviously there are intangible benefits to staying at home. Likewise, there are intangible benefits to continuing your job. This is a decision that nobody can or should make for you. You guys need to figure that out - both the financial side and the emotional side.

Fertility testing is not something most insurance plans will cover out the gate. As PP mentioned, 95% of couples conceive naturally within a year. So your odds are pretty strong that you'll be in that position, unless you have something else going on that indicates you guys may experience fertility issues. Without these other indicators, I personally would not bother with testing until your doctor tells you to proceed.

Whatever you guys decide to do, I suggest making flexibility part of "the plan." Developing plans are great, but you have to be mindful that it can change at a moment's notice. You never know when you're going to have a financial windfall. You also never know when you might be sideswiped by a car crossing the street. Also? You might find that you're baby-crazy some years and not at all other years. I was super baby crazy when I was 24. I'm now 28 - approaching 29 - and haven't experienced baby brain for the last few years. Don't marry yourself to any one plan. Be willing to re-examine it every few months based on what's actually happening and how you guys actually feel.

vlagrl29 · March 2015

jacobsgorgeous said:
Also agree vlagrl29. I'm worried that I'll hit an age or time when I'm ready and wanting, he'll be dead set against it because we haven't met this quota.

yes and i will be honest that if that does happen you may possibly become resentful.

Our situation most people on this board wouldn't do. I got laid off in Dec of 2009, started my own business Jan of 2010 and we TTC in April of 2010, pregnant within 6 weeks. We decided to start so soon because I was on cobra and DH didn't have maternity benefits on his insurance. I couldn't imagine the hospital bills without maternity benefits. It worked for us, but I'm not gonna lie that I will be more relieved that we have a savings before TTC this next time.

ETA - thank god for pregnancy not being a pre existing condition anymore. Our next pregnancy will be cheaper next time around.

simplyelise · March 2015

hoffse said:
if we stayed with my employer for family insurance, our costs would increase 8x for a family plan. Not even joking. With my H's plan it's a 4x increase for a family plan once we have a kid. But having a second kid doesn't increase our healthcare costs at all.

STUCK IN THE BOX

That's crazy!! I've got my husband on my insurance right now, no premium and $600 deductible. Adding a kid doesn't change that at all. You're either single or family for us.

We've been using a high estimate of 10k a year on daycare to make our decisions. I'm glad we'll be debt free when we have a kiddo, but I think it's important to find a balance between waiting for the perfect time and not preparing financially at all.

hoffse · March 2015

simplyelise said:

hoffse said:
if we stayed with my employer for family insurance, our costs would increase 8x for a family plan. Not even joking. With my H's plan it's a 4x increase for a family plan once we have a kid. But having a second kid doesn't increase our healthcare costs at all.

STUCK IN THE BOX

That's crazy!! I've got my husband on my insurance right now, no premium and $600 deductible. Adding a kid doesn't change that at all. You're either single or family for us.

We've been using a high estimate of 10k a year on daycare to make our decisions. I'm glad we'll be debt free when we have a kiddo, but I think it's important to find a balance between waiting for the perfect time and not preparing financially at all.

Yep, it really is crazy. I think it's fairly common for family plans to be 4x or more than single plans in the private sector though. The way the subsidies work at my job, my out of pocket cost for premiums (as a single) is $0. My H pays $100/month for his health insurance as a single. It would be $800/month ($5,000 deductible) if we switched to family coverage through my job, and then we would lose the daycare subsidy. With H's insurance, it's about $400/month for a family plan ($6,000 deductible), and then we preserve the daycare subsidies through my work. The daycare subsidies cut the cost of daycare by about a third for us, so they're pretty valuable. It makes no sense, but that's the game we're in. At least our decision about what to do is a no-brainer.

The partners pay something like $1400/month for a family health insurance plan with a $5,000 deductible at my job. The PPO is like $2K/month for them with a $1,500 deductible. It's absolutely insane. They make good money, but plenty of them are sole breadwinners so they kind of are required to provide the health insurance for their families. I don't care how much money you make - that's really expensive health insurance.

You should feel lucky your insurance is so cheap! But yeah - this is a perfect example of how costs can vary so widely.

The only thing that REALLY frustrates me about switching to H's insurance is that they don't have an HSA option. That really sucks. We'll hopefully have enough in our HSA to cover birth costs for one kid. But after we switch to his insurance, I can't make contributions anymore so I think we'll be out of pocket(at least partially) if we have a second kid. I don't think we'll be TTC until next spring at the earliest, so I'm going to stay on my health insurance through 2016 to keep the HSA contributions going as long as possible.

formerlyGDaisy09 · March 2015

hoffse said:

simplyelise said:

hoffse said:
if we stayed with my employer for family insurance, our costs would increase 8x for a family plan. Not even joking. With my H's plan it's a 4x increase for a family plan once we have a kid. But having a second kid doesn't increase our healthcare costs at all.

STUCK IN THE BOX

That's crazy!! I've got my husband on my insurance right now, no premium and $600 deductible. Adding a kid doesn't change that at all. You're either single or family for us.

We've been using a high estimate of 10k a year on daycare to make our decisions. I'm glad we'll be debt free when we have a kiddo, but I think it's important to find a balance between waiting for the perfect time and not preparing financially at all.
Yep, it really is crazy. I think it's fairly common for family plans to be 4x or more than single plans in the private sector though. The way the subsidies work at my job, my out of pocket cost for premiums (as a single) is $0. My H pays $100/month for his health insurance as a single. It would be $800/month ($5,000 deductible) if we switched to family coverage through my job, and then we would lose the daycare subsidy. With H's insurance, it's about $400/month for a family plan ($6,000 deductible), and then we preserve the daycare subsidies through my work. The daycare subsidies cut the cost of daycare by about a third for us, so they're pretty valuable. It makes no sense, but that's the game we're in. At least our decision about what to do is a no-brainer.

The partners pay something like $1400/month for a family health insurance plan with a $5,000 deductible at my job. The PPO is like $2K/month for them with a $1,500 deductible. It's absolutely insane. They make good money, but plenty of them are sole breadwinners so they kind of are required to provide the health insurance for their families. I don't care how much money you make - that's really expensive health insurance.

You should feel lucky your insurance is so cheap! But yeah - this is a perfect example of how costs can vary so widely.

The only thing that REALLY frustrates me about switching to H's insurance is that they don't have an HSA option. That really sucks. We'll hopefully have enough in our HSA to cover birth costs for one kid. But after we switch to his insurance, I can't make contributions anymore so I think we'll be out of pocket(at least partially) if we have a second kid. I don't think we'll be TTC until next spring at the earliest, so I'm going to stay on my health insurance through 2016 to keep the HSA contributions going as long as possible.

This sounds fairly similar to our options. adding H to my plan almost triples the monthly cost a family plan is 4 or 5 times a single person, however there is no difference between a single-adult family and a two-adult family. my insurance is better than H's so he'll move to mine once we start a family. Insurance is such a funny thing.

the least expensive I've seen full-time daycare in this area is $1200/month (yikes!) fortunately with H's schedule we only need care 12-15 hours a week, so an in-home nanny is a much better option for us, though It'll still cost $700-800/month.

jacobsgorgeous · March 2015

All of you bring up really good points. Tbh I haven't had much experience with my own insurance because it's been through my parents and then through my college. within the next two months I have to find a new one since I'll be graduating.

It's interesting how all of these topics interlock so effusively and it clearly highlights how unprepared we currently are. My to-do list now includes finding my own health insurance, investigating health risks associated with age and our families, investigating health costs in relation to age and risk, estimating how much income we would need to sustain around the first five years of child#1 and therefore possibly how much we need to make or save. Anything I'm missing?

HoneyBee973 · March 2015

I didn't get a chance to read thru all the comments, but my suggestion is, get a pre-pregnancy check up before you try to TTC. I never thought I would need any infertility treatments. My cycles were very regular, etc etc. After few years of trying, a simple HSG test showed one of my tubes is blocked/damaged. Which means I only have one side to work with. Seeing a specialist isn't cheap, and you want to know if you need to save for it.

lifeonthehill · March 2015

jacobsgorgeous said:
All of you bring up really good points. Tbh I haven't had much experience with my own insurance because it's been through my parents and then through my college. within the next two months I have to find a new one since I'll be graduating.
It's interesting how all of these topics interlock so effusively and it clearly highlights how unprepared we currently are. My to-do list now includes finding my own health insurance, investigating health risks associated with age and our families, investigating health costs in relation to age and risk, estimating how much income we would need to sustain around the first five years of child#1 and therefore possibly how much we need to make or save. Anything I'm missing?

Looks like you have it all.

I wanted to be on my own insurance before having kids too. Though I could have been on my Fathers legally.

hoffse · March 2015

jacobsgorgeous said:
All of you bring up really good points. Tbh I haven't had much experience with my own insurance because it's been through my parents and then through my college. within the next two months I have to find a new one since I'll be graduating.
It's interesting how all of these topics interlock so effusively and it clearly highlights how unprepared we currently are. My to-do list now includes finding my own health insurance, investigating health risks associated with age and our families, investigating health costs in relation to age and risk, estimating how much income we would need to sustain around the first five years of child#1 and therefore possibly how much we need to make or save. Anything I'm missing?

Assuming things are normal for you, conventional wisdom says to make sure you can cover the max out of pocket (OOP) costs for your health insurance policy before TTC. This number will probably be higher than your deductible, but it's the max you will have to pay under your policy in that year, regardless of how many hospital stays you have. It's probably smart to be able to float that OOP max for 2 years in case you give birth in one calendar year and baby requires hospitalization in the following calendar year. They may even be for unrelated things. A good friend of ours just had their 8 month old in the hospital for 4 days because of a stomach virus they couldn't get under control.

A few other thing I can think of:

-College: are you guys going to pay for any part of it? H and I plan to, and we are planning to make a pretty serious "down payment" to a 529 as soon as any kid of ours has a SSN.

-Life insurance: you need more when you have kids

-Wills/medical directives: you also need these in place when you have kids

-Retirement: I think that funding your retirement habitually comes before giving your kids music lessons and college savings. If you don't do it, then your kids are going to be the ones taking care of you, potentially for decades. Try not to do that to them.

-Cars: will your car fit a car seat? Probably, but some of the cute little sports cars don't. Similarly, getting a car seat in and out of a 2-door could be a huge pain, even if the car seat technically fits. A lot of families end up buying a new car with their first or second kid just to make hauling them and their stuff around more convenient. H thought I was crazy for insisting we buy him a larger car when his old one when kaput last year. Now we're talking about kids more and more often, and he's really glad that I thought about this when we were car shopping a year ago.

Not trying to scare you, but there really isn't a magic number.

jacobsgorgeous · March 2015

Thank you for all your advice. This experience went so much easier than the last time I posted. It's nice to know not everyone on the internet is disrespectful. I'm going to refer to this thread time and again.

Luccie · April 2015

I actually disagree about the fertility testing and think you should go ahead and pay for some non-invasive tests out of pocket if they will give you peace of mind. I would have my DH do a sperm analysis, which is not a huge deal, and get blood work for my AMH, thyroid, FSH, and gluten allergies. While they are not a guarantee that you will be able to have children quickly, they can help you get ahead of any hormonal or sperm count issues long before you are trying TTC. They are also just be good to know for your general health. Also, get your weight in check and make sure that both you and your husband are as healthy as possible before you conceive. Sometimes people focus so much on their money goals that they neglect their health goals in the process.

While it is a small difference from the 95% figure that has been thrown out in this thread, but it is actually only 85% of women who will conceive within a year of trying. And, not all of those conceptions will result in live births. If you do learn that you have some issues that might affect your fertility, you will be glad that you planned in advance for your fertility health as well. The Impatient Woman's Guide to Getting Pregnant is a good read that has some valuable suggestions about planning TTC.

formerlyGDaisy09 · April 2015

Luccie said:
I actually disagree about the fertility testing and think you should go ahead and pay for some non-invasive tests out of pocket if they will give you peace of mind. I would have my DH do a sperm analysis, which is not a huge deal, and get blood work for my AMH, thyroid, FSH, and gluten allergies. While they are not a guarantee that you will be able to have children quickly, they can help you get ahead of any hormonal or sperm count issues long before you are trying TTC. They are also just be good to know for your general health. Also, get your weight in check and make sure that both you and your husband are as healthy as possible before you conceive. Sometimes people focus so much on their money goals that they neglect their health goals in the process.

While it is a small difference from the 95% figure that has been thrown out in this thread, but it is actually only 85% of women who will conceive within a year of trying. And, not all of those conceptions will result in live births. If you do learn that you have some issues that might affect your fertility, you will be glad that you planned in advance for your fertility health as well. The Impatient Woman's Guide to Getting Pregnant is a good read that has some valuable suggestions about planning TTC.

THIS IS A WASTE OF HEALTH CARE DOLLARS! Please, do not persue any fertility testing if you have not been trying for a year (actively trying with decent timing) (6 months if you're over 35) or if you have an underlying health condition that would make TTC difficult. If I remember OP from an older post she is in her early 20's, there is zero reason that she should be concerned about waiting a few years to TTC.

85% is a huge majority of women, imagine if all those women decided to go get tested, just in case. Clinics would be full and booking out months, and the women who are actually struggling to conceive would have a hard time getting an appointment. Additionally all that testing is not cheap, it would most likely be a waste of OP's money, not to mention over-use and abuse of the health care system like this is a driver in the skyrocketing cost of health care in our country.

Stephanie2167 · April 2015

In all honesty, adding my oldest to our family didn't really make much of a dent. I continued to work and DD went to a home daycare. Then we decided when she was almost 3 to start trying for "just one more". Surprise. How about two more? We also at that time moved for the military from Washington state to Texas. I'm still working but we pay $2100 a month for all three kids in daycare. Plus, clothes x3. Food x3. That has been a kick in the pants. We do it. We survive. The kids are taken care of. Loved. Etc. They just don't get all the extras my oldest had when it was just us three. There is also a light at the end of the tunnel. My oldest goes to Kindergarten in September (we still have to pay for before and after school care). The twins will be moving to the older room here in about a month so that will lower our daycare cost. I HATE to say this cliche but it really does all work out. Was it easier when it was just DH and I? Uh YEAH. Do I sometimes reminisce on those times? YES! But my children are now my world and I wouldn't change a thing.

jacobsgorgeous · April 2015

I think bringing up these questions after moving and settling in with a new gyno is something I'll do, just to get their professional opinion. I don't think I'll sign up for any testing unless something with my health starts going wonky. I appreciate that I'm not the only one worried about TTC problems wayy ahead of schedule.

vlagrl29 · April 2015

I wouldn't do testing either. Just TTC and if after a year if nothing has happened then get medical advice. Its best not to worry about, just have fun with the process

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