What is your personal philosophy on charitable giving?

Xstatic3333 · October 2015

hoffse said:

Xstatic3333 said:

@hoffse if you're interested in the topic of abuse of church donations, Google John Oliver's "Our Lady of Perpetual Exemption" and watch the associated videos (or the full show if you have an HBO Go password). Absolutely hilarious!

ETA: As a churchgoer myself I didn't find it anti-religion, just anti-televangelism scams

Oh man, that would probably make my blood boil.

I do recognize that I'm probably in the extreme minority on this issue. I'm a church goer, and I refuse to donate money because my church doesn't file a 990, nor does it publish internal church finances for the parishioners to review. I pull the 990's for all of the nonprofits we donate to, even the obligatory ones. It's just my personal philosophy, because misappropriating tax-exempt money is way too easy and happens way too often. I'm very willing to give, but I want to see that the organization is using that money for its mission.

Side bar: My H likes to watch Osteen on the weekends. H thinks he's a sociopath. The man can literally cry on command. It's fascinating. And terrifying.

It's a comedy/parody thing, not an actual church. Some of the actual ones he discusses were pretty horrifying.

@csuave I did see Going Clear and found it completely fascinating. If that's not an abuse of religious tax exemption, nothing is.

formerlyGDaisy09 · October 2015

hoffse said:

I will also say that I would only give to a church if it voluntarily files a form 990 each year. Churches aren't required to do this, and so most of them don't. That means there is no public inspection or oversight of how money is spent. This is how you wind up with the Joel Osteens of the world. That church doesn't file a 990, so guidestar lists its annual income as $0, even though it spent more than $75 million renovating the Houston Rockets stadium to turn it into a megachurch.

Obviously most churches aren't like that, but I think the lack of required reporting for them is a real issue. Osteen's church is absolutely a business, and it should be taxed like any other business. If you have $75M to burn on a stadium reno, you should be paying federal income taxes.

I've also had a couple of elderly clients be taken for a ride by "churches" that aren't required to report anything. One lady was giving tens of thousands a year to this guy who was claiming to be a prophet. As best we could figure, he was taking her money and vacationing in Europe with it.

Now, we will give to religious 501(c)(3)s that are not designated as churches (so they are required to file a 990, and we can see how the money is being spent). We give to several Catholic charity groups that way.

EDIT: I would also probably donate to a church if I was on the finance committee or had some way of seeing the church's numbers. As it stands, H and I don't see enough info on how our church spends its money to donate. So we will volunteer time, but we will not donate money.

yep, the pastor at my parent's church was embezzling money from the church, it took several years before anyone noticed. H and I have yet to find a church that we mesh well with in our area, but when we do we're much more apt to donate our time.

hoffse · October 2015

formerlyGDaisy09 said:

yep, the pastor at my parent's church was embezzling money from the church, it took several years before anyone noticed. H and I have yet to find a church that we mesh well with in our area, but when we do we're much more apt to donate our time.

Ugh I'm sorry to hear that. It happens at a lot of nonprofits that have to file annual reports too - they just usually find it more quickly because they are forced to compile the numbers every year for the IRS. If anybody but the embezzler is looking at the figures it can be pretty obvious when money goes missing.

If nothing else, a forced annual accounting would reveal this kind of stuff faster for churches. The vast majority of churches and their pastors/priests are above-board. There are a handful who aren't. Finding them is awfully hard without the responsibility of filling out a tax return each year.

short+sassy · October 2015

I do very little charitable giving. I could afford to contribute more, but I choose not to. I have had substantial medical bills to deal with for my entire adult life and will continue to deal with for the rest of my life...so it just doesn't make me feel very charitable to give to others. It's not a justification, I know it's not, but I just can't help it.

I do minor things. I contribute to toy and canned food drives. I donate a lot of stuff to a local thrift store that houses/feeds people struggling with addiction. Not something I even feel very passionate about, but they are across the street from where I work, so it is convenient.

I make a small donation when I go to church and small donations if I go to a museum with no/low entrance fee. I occasionally make random $20-$25 donations, like if a coworker/friend has a major injury and/or death in the immediate family.

I also donate $26/year to the Juvenile Diabetes Foundation. Why exactly $26, lol? Because my workplace does a United Way drive every year and puts hardcore pressure to donate something. Except the local United Way office has 85+% of their donations go to "administrative costs". Any monies received that aren't designated for a specific charity, automatically go to that terrible local office. If you want your donation to go to a specific charity...the donation has to be at least $26.

simplyelise · October 2015

My real problem is with political spending of 501(c)4s TBH. But I totally agree with doing some research on charities and making sure the money is being spent in a way that corresponds with your principles.

I do think churches need to be transparent about finances in terms of overall payroll and administration costs as a percentage of revenue, facility costs and renovation costs, ministry costs, and charity/community development.

I actually resigned from working at a church based partly on their complete lack of financial transparency. We had some members asking those of us in the Children's Ministry staff about why the church was spending money on renovating the sanctuary when the entire children's ministry building suffered from chronic water leaks. I was told to basically say a company line about the Pastor feeling this was how God was leading us and that we had to do the reno to comply with building codes. But that was a lie, we only needed to comply with the new codes because we opened up a bunch of walls during the reno and now had to get up to code. I'd actually given a presentation weeks earlier to all staff about "millennials" looking for more financial transparency in churches or else they won't become members, so it was the nail in the coffin when I was told to lie.

The church we are members at now has only been around 4 years, so we're definitely not a standard bearer yet, but we currently do a member's meeting 1-2 times a year with information about revenues and expenses and church decisions. We have 2 internal elders and one external elder. The external elder uses a yearly pastor salary survey and adds a fractional modifier to account for our smaller size as a way to make decisions on our pastor's salary. He's our only paid personnel, so that keeps it pretty simple. Then we have a stewardship team of 8 members who review finances. Our main focus on the stewardship team has been searching and advising on our new rental space. We also plan to release quarterly updates starting next year with some info on where revenues are as well as other stewardship topics - ministry areas needing more volunteers, upcoming outreach events and needs.

We do have the perspective that our money is God's and tithing is a way to be obedient and remind ourselves of our dependence. But I also feel a more general sense of duty as a member to help support the church's very real financial obligations. If I didn't feel comfortable or informed about the way my church was spending money, I'd have to look for a new church where I did feel comfortable giving.

brij2006 · October 2015

hoffse said:

brij2006 said:

hoffse said:

Xstatic3333 said:

@hoffse if you're interested in the topic of abuse of church donations, Google John Oliver's "Our Lady of Perpetual Exemption" and watch the associated videos (or the full show if you have an HBO Go password). Absolutely hilarious! ETA: As a churchgoer myself I didn't find it anti-religion, just anti-televangelism scams

Oh man, that would probably make my blood boil.

I do recognize that I'm probably in the extreme minority on this issue. I'm a church goer, and I refuse to donate money because my church doesn't file a 990, nor does it publish internal church finances for the parishioners to review. I pull the 990's for all of the nonprofits we donate to, even the obligatory ones. It's just my personal philosophy, because misappropriating tax-exempt money is way too easy and happens way too often. I'm very willing to give, but I want to see that the organization is using that money for its mission.

Side bar: My H likes to watch Osteen on the weekends. H thinks he's a sociopath. The man can literally cry on command. It's fascinating. And terrifying.

Have you ever asked them for a copy of their expense report? I flat out told our church, "we want to begin tithing, but want to make sure the spending habits of the church align with our views on where we give our money to." They were happy to oblige, and we even sat down with the church treasurer to discuss what/where their money goes and the future intentions of the church.
I am much more involved in the church now, so that helps as well. But when we first started we weren't involved in anything behind the scenes.

Yes. They declined. So I declined to donate.

EDIT: We're catholic, so our parish has to report to the archdiocese. They do have some financial oversight, but parishioners don't necessarily see it.

****SITB****

I do not blame you one bit there. That would make me very frustrated and I probably would be very hesitant to give to them as well. Granted, I would probably be finding a different church as well because of it.

abrewer5 · October 2015

I need to give more-- volunteer time and money wise. I've been strongly considering being a foster for dogs, but my H is not on board. He knows me too well and knows I would instantly bond and never be able to let go so we'd end up with a house full.

I've always loved volunteering and donating. When I was younger I would take my rabbit to the local nursing home for the residents to pet... It sounds weird I know, but it was really comforting for them. We would usually pick a name or two off the giving tree as well. We used to have parties at my parent's house a few times a year that were pretty big (100-200 people usually) and we'd always put on the invite to bring canned goods/non perishable foods for donating. It wasn't required but most people did and they'd bring a whole bag. We used to end up with a good amount of canned goods for one of the local church's food pantry.

I wanted to ask people to bring canned goods to my wedding for donating, but I figured etiquette wise that would be inappropriate... and H's family totally wouldn't understand.

On National Dog Day I usually donate $25-50 to the rescue where we got our pup. And if my work does a food or hygiene drive I try to donate a few things. I also donate gifts to military children around the holidays. I need to set up regular contributions from my pay thou and get more involved with a local animal rescue or other organization. I've heard that one of the hospitals near us will let people volunteer to be baby holders in the NICU for babies that are abandoned by their parents or have already been taken from their parents by CPS for various reasons (usually the ones that come out addicted), that is definitely something I would love to do!

cbee817 · October 2015

We donate to a few organizations that mean something to us and the girls- NPR (DH's favorite is This American Life), WBFO (local PBS channel that the girls love), and our city animal shelter (In honor of our Miss Millie Donut. RIP big dog). We also donate clothing, toys, housewares, etc to a shelter. At work, we help out local needy families around the holidays. I usually buy a lot of baby items for families with newborns/young kids. Some of the requests are outrageous (an X-box or a new TV that is way nicer than mine), but for the most part, the families are more realistic about needs over wants.

DD#1 has been getting a lot of PTA fundraising material sent home for school- we'll just be sending them a check so we don't have to deal with asking people to buy food/wrapping paper/coupon books that no one wants. I don't like that type of fundraising at all...

csuave · October 2015

I don't know if my church files the official forms but they do an annual report showing finances and where the money goes.

They also have a section that breaks down Pastor's time in the annual report. How many hours he spent on this and that, miles driven, weddings performed, vacation and sick days taken.....all kinds of statistics. I think it is good detail to show what he is doing/the work his salary is paying for and trends such as he can use help visiting the elderly and sick since we have an aging church population and these needs are increasing.

hoffse · October 2015

****SITB****

I do not blame you one bit there. That would make me very frustrated and I probably would be very hesitant to give to them as well. Granted, I would probably be finding a different church as well because of it.

Again, we're Catholic. It's a pretty standardized religion, and it didn't surprise me that they said no because they report it all to the archdiocese to handle.

That's not a make it or break it for me in terms of where we attend. We go to whichever church has the best mass times for us that week. There's one we go to more than the others, so that's our "home" church.

I'll attend and volunteer, I just won't donate without seeing a cash flow statement.

It's also a really hard sell to convince me that the Catholic church needs more money, outside of certain targeted areas of the world where the money goes to feeding or housing the poor. Those are the Catholic charities we donate to because about 98% of the money goes directly to the poor. And they do publish figures for people to review.

As a general institution though, I think we're good. The Vatican holds billions in assets just in the form of artwork, not to mention buildings and cash.

julieanne912 · October 2015

Cashflow is an issue for me these days so I rarely give actual money. I also don't buy a whole lot of school fundraiser stuff, unless it's something I could actually use (ie, I don't buy edibles but I'll buy gift wrap).

I much prefer to donate things versus money. At least with things, you know exactly what they'll use it for. So like I'll donate work wear to Dress for Success or other similar organizations, since all they can use that for is to give to women who need a step up for a job interview. Or, for pet organizations, I'll donate supplies... blankets, towels, dog food, etc. Now, I fully realize the cash value of these items is harder to prove for tax purposes, but at least I feel like I'm actually helping versus my money going down a black hole.

formerlyGDaisy09 · October 2015

abrewer5 said:

I need to give more-- volunteer time and money wise. I've been strongly considering being a foster for dogs, but my H is not on board. He knows me too well and knows I would instantly bond and never be able to let go so we'd end up with a house full.
I've always loved volunteering and donating. When I was younger I would take my rabbit to the local nursing home for the residents to pet... It sounds weird I know, but it was really comforting for them. We would usually pick a name or two off the giving tree as well. We used to have parties at my parent's house a few times a year that were pretty big (100-200 people usually) and we'd always put on the invite to bring canned goods/non perishable foods for donating. It wasn't required but most people did and they'd bring a whole bag. We used to end up with a good amount of canned goods for one of the local church's food pantry.
I wanted to ask people to bring canned goods to my wedding for donating, but I figured etiquette wise that would be inappropriate... and H's family totally wouldn't understand.

On National Dog Day I usually donate $25-50 to the rescue where we got our pup. And if my work does a food or hygiene drive I try to donate a few things. I also donate gifts to military children around the holidays. I need to set up regular contributions from my pay thou and get more involved with a local animal rescue or other organization. I've heard that one of the hospitals near us will let people volunteer to be baby holders in the NICU for babies that are abandoned by their parents or have already been taken from their parents by CPS for various reasons (usually the ones that come out addicted), that is definitely something I would love to do!

We fostered kittens for the humane society a few times, that was a lot of work. we looked into fostering with some rescues, unfortunately most of them ask their foster families to provide food and some other basics...they would take care of vet bills, but the dogs would basically go to their foster homes with a leash and collar, so it had the potential to get quite expensive, very quickly, in addtion to being very time consuming.

short+sassy · October 2015

SITB
My workplace does an event every year where volunteers are asked to donate their time for 1-2 weekends doing work on a person's house (not Habitat for Humanity). It is organized through a charitable organization, though I don't remember which one. I think the receipients (sp?) are typically elderly or disabled.
And, while it sounds like a really worthwhile program, for the last two years I've been really unimpressed with the "need" of the families my workplace either chose or were assigned. I'll fully admit to possibly being judgmental on this but, just because someone is elderly, doesn't mean they are in need. Especially if they are not doing much to help themselves.
For example, last year, it was an elderly woman who owned a duplex. Her daughter/SIL and their family were living in the other side. And, while the details of that arrangement were understandably not included in her story, I couldn't help but feel that her daughter/SIL are either not paying her rent or paying her a greatly reduced rate. So why aren't they fixing up her house or paying someone to do it?
This year, it was also an elderly woman who has three kids and owns a duplex. She chooses to not rent out the other side because she values her peace and quiet. Of course, that is her choice, but when she is choosing to not collect $800-$1,000/month in rent...or selling a house she is only using half of for a smaller/cheaper/better maintained home...I'm not very sympathetic to her asking for charitable help.

abrewer5 · October 2015

formerlyGDaisy09 said:

abrewer5 said:

I need to give more-- volunteer time and money wise. I've been strongly considering being a foster for dogs, but my H is not on board. He knows me too well and knows I would instantly bond and never be able to let go so we'd end up with a house full.
I've always loved volunteering and donating. When I was younger I would take my rabbit to the local nursing home for the residents to pet... It sounds weird I know, but it was really comforting for them. We would usually pick a name or two off the giving tree as well. We used to have parties at my parent's house a few times a year that were pretty big (100-200 people usually) and we'd always put on the invite to bring canned goods/non perishable foods for donating. It wasn't required but most people did and they'd bring a whole bag. We used to end up with a good amount of canned goods for one of the local church's food pantry.
I wanted to ask people to bring canned goods to my wedding for donating, but I figured etiquette wise that would be inappropriate... and H's family totally wouldn't understand.

On National Dog Day I usually donate $25-50 to the rescue where we got our pup. And if my work does a food or hygiene drive I try to donate a few things. I also donate gifts to military children around the holidays. I need to set up regular contributions from my pay thou and get more involved with a local animal rescue or other organization. I've heard that one of the hospitals near us will let people volunteer to be baby holders in the NICU for babies that are abandoned by their parents or have already been taken from their parents by CPS for various reasons (usually the ones that come out addicted), that is definitely something I would love to do!

We fostered kittens for the humane society a few times, that was a lot of work. we looked into fostering with some rescues, unfortunately most of them ask their foster families to provide food and some other basics...they would take care of vet bills, but the dogs would basically go to their foster homes with a leash and collar, so it had the potential to get quite expensive, very quickly, in addtion to being very time consuming.

Interesting... I actually expected that I would cover costs of basic care food, meds, etc. (aside from major vet bills) so that wouldn't be a huge issue for me. I can imagine the costs would add up pretty quickly thou, especially since I already have one dog.

My H is strongly against the idea (to foster or for me to volunteer any where near dogs) thou so I guess I don't need to worry about it too much. He is 100% right that I would bring a dog home within a week if I was around them so often. I actually recently deleted my facebook (in part) because I was "friends" with so many rescue pages that I was constantly sad about the number of dogs sitting in shelters and would regularly cry over it. I have a huge spot in my heart for animals, but dogs especially.

Erikan73 · October 2015

You don't have to give money to give back. My husband and I volunteer at our local park system with programs that they put on. To be honest, I started volunteering because then I got to do some of the programs I loved doing for free like kayaking. So win win, I helped them with staffing and I got to save money & do something I loved. In fact, it's thanks to volunteering at the park system, I met my husband.

If there is a cause that is dear to a person, they can find ways to contribute. Yes money is always helpful. But they also need help at fundraising events, calling out to alumni's or even stuffing envelopes for mailings.

short+sassy · October 2015

Erikan73 said:

You don't have to give money to give back. My husband and I volunteer at our local park system with programs that they put on. To be honest, I started volunteering because then I got to do some of the programs I loved doing for free like kayaking. So win win, I helped them with staffing and I got to save money & do something I loved. In fact, it's thanks to volunteering at the park system, I met my husband.
If there is a cause that is dear to a person, they can find ways to contribute. Yes money is always helpful. But they also need help at fundraising events, calling out to alumni's or even stuffing envelopes for mailings.

Now that is an endorsement for doing volunteer work!

kmurphy2131 · October 2015

abrewer5 said:

formerlyGDaisy09 said:

abrewer5 said:

I need to give more-- volunteer time and money wise. I've been strongly considering being a foster for dogs, but my H is not on board. He knows me too well and knows I would instantly bond and never be able to let go so we'd end up with a house full.
I've always loved volunteering and donating. When I was younger I would take my rabbit to the local nursing home for the residents to pet... It sounds weird I know, but it was really comforting for them. We would usually pick a name or two off the giving tree as well. We used to have parties at my parent's house a few times a year that were pretty big (100-200 people usually) and we'd always put on the invite to bring canned goods/non perishable foods for donating. It wasn't required but most people did and they'd bring a whole bag. We used to end up with a good amount of canned goods for one of the local church's food pantry.
I wanted to ask people to bring canned goods to my wedding for donating, but I figured etiquette wise that would be inappropriate... and H's family totally wouldn't understand.

On National Dog Day I usually donate $25-50 to the rescue where we got our pup. And if my work does a food or hygiene drive I try to donate a few things. I also donate gifts to military children around the holidays. I need to set up regular contributions from my pay thou and get more involved with a local animal rescue or other organization. I've heard that one of the hospitals near us will let people volunteer to be baby holders in the NICU for babies that are abandoned by their parents or have already been taken from their parents by CPS for various reasons (usually the ones that come out addicted), that is definitely something I would love to do!

We fostered kittens for the humane society a few times, that was a lot of work. we looked into fostering with some rescues, unfortunately most of them ask their foster families to provide food and some other basics...they would take care of vet bills, but the dogs would basically go to their foster homes with a leash and collar, so it had the potential to get quite expensive, very quickly, in addtion to being very time consuming.

Interesting... I actually expected that I would cover costs of basic care food, meds, etc. (aside from major vet bills) so that wouldn't be a huge issue for me. I can imagine the costs would add up pretty quickly thou, especially since I already have one dog.
My H is strongly against the idea (to foster or for me to volunteer any where near dogs) thou so I guess I don't need to worry about it too much. He is 100% right that I would bring a dog home within a week if I was around them so often. I actually recently deleted my facebook (in part) because I was "friends" with so many rescue pages that I was constantly sad about the number of dogs sitting in shelters and would regularly cry over it. I have a huge spot in my heart for animals, but dogs especially.

I didnt delete my facebook, but I have been "unfriending" a lot of the rescue organizations that I follow. I end up sad about all the situations they are in and feel guilty I can't help.

MommyLiberty5013 · October 2015

When DH and I each graduated from college we separately decided (this was before we even knew one another) to always give a full 10% of our gross income to God/church. So from the point we each got hired in our respective fields and until now, we have always given 10%. Now, we actually give more then that, probably close to 12-13% gross.

Whenever we have windfalls, like DH's profit sharing and monetary gifts from family (inheritance) we also give 10% of those away to the people who need it.

Some of it goes to our actually church community. And, the other significant portion goes to a group called Gospel for Asia. There we support 15 children and 11 missionaries on reoccurring monthly donations.

At times we also give to other organizations (health related ones) or other ministries.

Our "philosophy" is that even though we're considered fairly wealthy, 99% of the world is not even close to the American standard of living, let alone ours, so we feel called/compelled to give more. It has always been important to DH and me to take care of others.

Within the past few years we left a major denomination in which churches' finances were widely known and discussed in the individual congregations. Each year the congregation had to vote on the church's budget, in fact.

Now, where we attend does not do any form of disclosure, except for the page that comes at tax time letting us know a record of our contributions. This bothers us a bit, but we also just feel that it is important to trust. We have certain reasons for being okay with this, but that is too personal to share.

emily1004 · October 2015

I think what you give is an extremely personal and financial decision you need to make with your SO. I don't know if it was this post or another, but someone asked about the so-called "sweet spot" of what to donated verses what you make to get the maximum tax incentive. (or something along those lines). I inquired about that with our accountant earlier this year. He suggested to donate whatever we are comfortable with and not worry so much about what can be used as a deduction.

Part of my faith, and what we believe will inscribe us in the "Book of Life", is giving. We atone by giving. This highest level of Tzedakah is giving so the recipient can become self reliant. The second highest level of Tzedakah is giving so neither party knows the identify of the other party. This is my favorite!

I prefer to keep a low profile when it comes to my charitable donations. I don't like people knowing what I give, monetarily speaking. But for some reason the Jewish community loves to celebrate giving. My husband and I joke about it all the time, but Jews love having their name on buildings and other things, which interestingly enough, goes against the highest levels of Tzedakah. If you donate a certain amount to Federation you get to be part of this "society" and it allows you to mingle with others in the "society". Why? So we can all get together and brag about how wealthy we all are, and everyone in the room is one upping each other?!? No thank you. Not my scene. I get invitations all the time, and I always decline. I don't need strangers and acquaintances knowing my level of giving. I guess we're the exception. I love being recognized for when I do something good, but charity is NOT one of them.

What is your personal philosophy on charitable giving?

Re: What is your personal philosophy on charitable giving?

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