Spinoff from charitable giving post - panhandling

Mustard76 · October 2015

I have a question for the people who don't give. I'm not judging, I'm genuinely curious. I am not religious in any sort of way. But I noticed the other day how many church-goers participate here. So my question is how you reconcile your beliefs that "our money is god's money" and other such beliefs with the other side that you don't give because you don't know someone's story? Again, I'm not any sort of religious, but doesn't the Bible teach to give to the poor and feed the hungry? Isn't that what Jesus did?

If your money is god's money, how do you decide who is deserving of it? Especially if you don't know someone's homeless/hungry/needy story. I'm having a hard time putting these two things together, because to me they seem contradictory.

simplyelise · October 2015

Mustard76 said:

I have a question for the people who don't give. I'm not judging, I'm genuinely curious. I am not religious in any sort of way. But I noticed the other day how many church-goers participate here. So my question is how you reconcile your beliefs that "our money is god's money" and other such beliefs with the other side that you don't give because you don't know someone's story? Again, I'm not any sort of religious, but doesn't the Bible teach to give to the poor and feed the hungry? Isn't that what Jesus did? If your money is god's money, how do you decide who is deserving of it? Especially if you don't know someone's homeless/hungry/needy story. I'm having a hard time putting these two things together, because to me they seem contradictory.

We believe that God has asked us to be good stewards of His money. That means being responsible with our finances, not simply giving 100% of our incomes to panhandlers or charities. For my husband and I, it means repaying our debts, tithing, being generous, and investing wisely.

The Bible does talk about caring for the poor, the widows, the orphans, the sick and the hungry. Part of the way I do that is through supporting a strong social safety net politically. Many of my liberal views are held predominantly because of my Christianity. I am happy with paying taxes to provide unemployment benefits, healthcare, food stamps, and TANF to families in need. Part of the way I care for the poor is through generosity to food banks and soup kitchens. I also participate in international giving towards renewable food production abroad. I spent 2 months in a rural village in Tanzania providing free labor to build a school building for families who make less than a dollar a day. I also help at events as they come up for families in need at holiday times or providing donations for the weekend food backpack program for kids.

On the flip side, I believe in being kind and respectful to people who are panhandling, but it wouldn't make me a very good steward if I just gave blindly to support someone's drug habit. For many of the people around here, they are begging for money and then going back to the motel next to my work and doing crystal.

That said, if we're really digging in to how I respond through the lens of my faith. I try to listen to my conscience and respond when I feel God telling me to give. Even if my logical side says that it's probably going straight to a 40oz, I still try to be open to conviction.

als1982 · October 2015

Mustard76 said:
I have a question for the people who don't give. I'm not judging, I'm genuinely curious. I am not religious in any sort of way. But I noticed the other day how many church-goers participate here. So my question is how you reconcile your beliefs that "our money is god's money" and other such beliefs with the other side that you don't give because you don't know someone's story? Again, I'm not any sort of religious, but doesn't the Bible teach to give to the poor and feed the hungry? Isn't that what Jesus did?

If your money is god's money, how do you decide who is deserving of it? Especially if you don't know someone's homeless/hungry/needy story. I'm having a hard time putting these two things together, because to me they seem contradictory.

Just because we don't give cash to panhandlers doesn't mean we don't care for them. The church that H and I attend offer opportunities to volunteer twice a month a more than a dozen homeless shelters and food banks. Serving a meal with dignity and respect, or helping distribute clean clothes, toiletries and candles, is how we give back, in addition to supporting these organizations that we've grown close to through financial contributions.

brij2006 · October 2015

Mustard76 said:

I have a question for the people who don't give. I'm not judging, I'm genuinely curious. I am not religious in any sort of way. But I noticed the other day how many church-goers participate here. So my question is how you reconcile your beliefs that "our money is god's money" and other such beliefs with the other side that you don't give because you don't know someone's story? Again, I'm not any sort of religious, but doesn't the Bible teach to give to the poor and feed the hungry? Isn't that what Jesus did? If your money is god's money, how do you decide who is deserving of it? Especially if you don't know someone's homeless/hungry/needy story. I'm having a hard time putting these two things together, because to me they seem contradictory.

***SITB*****

We're right there with @simplyelise. We feel that God has called us to be good stewards to his money. That means not giving a drunk a drink, a pothead a smoke, etc. Giving people in need, the tools to better themselves and have hope. Which is why my H feels so passionately about giving information to the homeless shelters/warm meal locations, and a Bible. If just 1 out of those 10 Bibles gives that homeless person hope to continue living and bettering themselves, then we have done our job as a good steward to Gods works and money.

I will never fell that because I'm a Christian I should just throw my money around to every thing that comes to my door or I see. That isn't being a good steward.

We have a very strict view on how and where we give our money, time, and things. I have had someone flat out tell me that I'm a bad Christian because I didn't give to their GoFundMe page to purchase a vehicle for their family (they were wanting to raise $15,000 to buy a 2nd car and were a 2 income family). I sent that person a copy of Dave Ramseys' Total Money Makeover book. Giving to their fund wouldn't have helped their income/spending problem, it would have created even more greed for them thinking others should buy them a nice vehicle without them needing to do any work or saving for it. But giving them TMM may cause them to rethink the way they're running their household and viewing their money and this "need" for a $15,000 vehicle that they are asking others to pay for.
- But I was a bad Christian because I don't have debt and didn't give them money to their fund. They felt that I had "more than enough to give." Which is very far from the truth.

Mustard76 · October 2015

brij2006 said:

Mustard76 said:

I have a question for the people who don't give. I'm not judging, I'm genuinely curious. I am not religious in any sort of way. But I noticed the other day how many church-goers participate here. So my question is how you reconcile your beliefs that "our money is god's money" and other such beliefs with the other side that you don't give because you don't know someone's story? Again, I'm not any sort of religious, but doesn't the Bible teach to give to the poor and feed the hungry? Isn't that what Jesus did?

If your money is god's money, how do you decide who is deserving of it? Especially if you don't know someone's homeless/hungry/needy story. I'm having a hard time putting these two things together, because to me they seem contradictory.

***SITB*****

We're right there with @simplyelise. We feel that God has called us to be good stewards to his money. That means not giving a drunk a drink, a pothead a smoke, etc. Giving people in need, the tools to better themselves and have hope. Which is why my H feels so passionately about giving information to the homeless shelters/warm meal locations, and a Bible. If just 1 out of those 10 Bibles gives that homeless person hope to continue living and bettering themselves, then we have done our job as a good steward to Gods works and money.

I will never fell that because I'm a Christian I should just throw my money around to every thing that comes to my door or I see. That isn't being a good steward.

We have a very strict view on how and where we give our money, time, and things. I have had someone flat out tell me that I'm a bad Christian because I didn't give to their GoFundMe page to purchase a vehicle for their family (they were wanting to raise $15,000 to buy a 2nd car and were a 2 income family). I sent that person a copy of Dave Ramseys' Total Money Makeover book. Giving to their fund wouldn't have helped their income/spending problem, it would have created even more greed for them thinking others should buy them a nice vehicle without them needing to do any work or saving for it. But giving them TMM may cause them to rethink the way they're running their household and viewing their money and this "need" for a $15,000 vehicle that they are asking others to pay for.
- But I was a bad Christian because I don't have debt and didn't give them money to their fund. They felt that I had "more than enough to give." Which is very far from the truth.

I really hope you don't take what I said as calling anyone bad Christians or anything else. I'm just asking for clarity on these viewpoints that are foreign to me.

brij2006 · October 2015

Mustard76 said:

Mustard76 said:

I have a question for the people who don't give. I'm not judging, I'm genuinely curious. I am not religious in any sort of way. But I noticed the other day how many church-goers participate here. So my question is how you reconcile your beliefs that "our money is god's money" and other such beliefs with the other side that you don't give because you don't know someone's story? Again, I'm not any sort of religious, but doesn't the Bible teach to give to the poor and feed the hungry? Isn't that what Jesus did? If your money is god's money, how do you decide who is deserving of it? Especially if you don't know someone's homeless/hungry/needy story. I'm having a hard time putting these two things together, because to me they seem contradictory.

***SITB*****

We're right there with @simplyelise. We feel that God has called us to be good stewards to his money. That means not giving a drunk a drink, a pothead a smoke, etc. Giving people in need, the tools to better themselves and have hope. Which is why my H feels so passionately about giving information to the homeless shelters/warm meal locations, and a Bible. If just 1 out of those 10 Bibles gives that homeless person hope to continue living and bettering themselves, then we have done our job as a good steward to Gods works and money.

I will never fell that because I'm a Christian I should just throw my money around to every thing that comes to my door or I see. That isn't being a good steward.

We have a very strict view on how and where we give our money, time, and things. I have had someone flat out tell me that I'm a bad Christian because I didn't give to their GoFundMe page to purchase a vehicle for their family (they were wanting to raise $15,000 to buy a 2nd car and were a 2 income family). I sent that person a copy of Dave Ramseys' Total Money Makeover book. Giving to their fund wouldn't have helped their income/spending problem, it would have created even more greed for them thinking others should buy them a nice vehicle without them needing to do any work or saving for it. But giving them TMM may cause them to rethink the way they're running their household and viewing their money and this "need" for a $15,000 vehicle that they are asking others to pay for.
- But I was a bad Christian because I don't have debt and didn't give them money to their fund. They felt that I had "more than enough to give." Which is very far from the truth.

I really hope you don't take what I said as calling anyone bad Christians or anything else. I'm just asking for clarity on these viewpoints that are foreign to me.

Not the slightest.

Many people don't know or understand the Christian views in giving, unless they live it.

Which in turn does and can give people the wrong view of Christians. To the outside eye, they view a Christian as someone who should give freely and fully. But that's very far from the truth.

There's also a misinformation among many, that Christians should not have wealth. Nowhere in the Bible does it say this.

hoffse · October 2015

Mustard76 said:

I have a question for the people who don't give. I'm not judging, I'm genuinely curious. I am not religious in any sort of way. But I noticed the other day how many church-goers participate here. So my question is how you reconcile your beliefs that "our money is god's money" and other such beliefs with the other side that you don't give because you don't know someone's story? Again, I'm not any sort of religious, but doesn't the Bible teach to give to the poor and feed the hungry? Isn't that what Jesus did? If your money is god's money, how do you decide who is deserving of it? Especially if you don't know someone's homeless/hungry/needy story. I'm having a hard time putting these two things together, because to me they seem contradictory.

My faith doesn't require tithing, and I have never heard the "your money is god's money" until very recently. I certainly don't view it that way, but obviously people can differ on that.

I view giving to the poor/needy an obligation as a successful citizen of one of the greatest countries on the planet, where collectively we hold most of the world's wealth. I think this is an obligation we all have, regardless of what we believe or where we stand politically. For me, faith has very little to do with it. I don't care what you do or don't believe, think, follow, practice, or observe - if you are a productive member of American (or Canadian, British, German, etc.) society, I think you have an obligation to help people who weren't lucky enough to be born where you were born or who don't have the opportunities you were given.

As such, we give some support to local charities such as food banks and shelters.

However, we give more support to international groups providing aid in third world countries.

You have to understand that poverty in the US is generally on a different scale than poverty in places like Haiti or parts of Africa. We try to provide some aid locally, but as Americans my H and I feel particularly obligated to spread some of our dollars to more desperate parts of the world as well.

We also do some Kiva loans because microlending has been shown to be enormously successful in bringing entire communities out of poverty. The person who came up with this concept won a Nobel prize for it because of how successful it can be.

The theme in all of this is that there is some group providing oversight in how the money is spent. Many many panhandlers use money for drugs, alcohol, cigarettes, etc. If you give money to somebody who spends it on crack, you are enabling their habit and doing far more harm than good. You're also inadvertently funding an illegal drug trade. Does every panhandler spend money on drugs? Of course not. But there is absolutely 0 oversight to know if the person you are giving money to is truly hungry or just interested in funding their habit. When we give to the food bank, the international groups, or Kiva we know the money is being spent for good.

Mustard76 · October 2015

hoffse said:

Mustard76 said:

I have a question for the people who don't give. I'm not judging, I'm genuinely curious. I am not religious in any sort of way. But I noticed the other day how many church-goers participate here. So my question is how you reconcile your beliefs that "our money is god's money" and other such beliefs with the other side that you don't give because you don't know someone's story? Again, I'm not any sort of religious, but doesn't the Bible teach to give to the poor and feed the hungry? Isn't that what Jesus did?

If your money is god's money, how do you decide who is deserving of it? Especially if you don't know someone's homeless/hungry/needy story. I'm having a hard time putting these two things together, because to me they seem contradictory.

My faith doesn't require tithing, and I have never heard the "your money is god's money" until very recently. I certainly don't view it that way, but obviously people can differ on that.

I view giving to the poor/needy an obligation as a successful citizen of one of the greatest countries on the planet, where collectively we hold most of the world's wealth. I think this is an obligation we all have, regardless of what we believe or where we stand politically. For me, faith has very little to do with it. I don't care what you do or don't believe, think, follow, practice, or observe - if you are a productive member of American (or Canadian, British, German, etc.) society, I think you have an obligation to help people who weren't lucky enough to be born where you were born or who don't have the opportunities you were given.

As such, we give some support to local charities such as food banks and shelters.

However, we give more support to international groups providing aid in third world countries.

You have to understand that poverty in the US is generally on a different scale than poverty in places like Haiti or parts of Africa. We try to provide some aid locally, but as Americans my H and I feel particularly obligated to spread some of our dollars to more desperate parts of the world as well.

We also do some Kiva loans because microlending has been shown to be enormously successful in bringing entire communities out of poverty. The person who came up with this concept won a Nobel prize for it because of how successful it can be.

The theme in all of this is that there is some group providing oversight in how the money is spent. Many many panhandlers use money for drugs, alcohol, cigarettes, etc. If you give money to somebody who spends it on crack, you are enabling their habit and doing far more harm than good. You're also inadvertently funding an illegal drug trade. Does every panhandler spend money on drugs? Of course not. But there is absolutely 0 oversight to know if the person you are giving money to is truly hungry or just interested in funding their habit. When we give to the food bank, the international groups, or Kiva we know the money is being spent for good.

My question was only related to the religious aspect of the whole thing. I grew up going to Catholic school and attending the Catholic Church, where I never heard the views that were expressed here in the last few days regarding this topic. I understand why people have different views on panhandling. I'm asking in relation to faith. I no longer identify as any religion, or as a person of faith. But in all the years I spent in the Catholic system I had never heard the view of our money as god's money. That is why I'm asking.

hoffse · October 2015

Got it. I am Catholic too.

But I think your question would be applicable to anybody who feels obligated to give. Whether you are giving because of religion or because of some other belief, we still make choices in whether to give and who we are giving to.

I don't think a Protestant vs. Catholic vs. Jewish viewpoint makes any difference in who you are giving to, at least from a faith perspective.

vlagrl29 · October 2015

brij2006 said:

Mustard76 said:

I have a question for the people who don't give. I'm not judging, I'm genuinely curious. I am not religious in any sort of way. But I noticed the other day how many church-goers participate here. So my question is how you reconcile your beliefs that "our money is god's money" and other such beliefs with the other side that you don't give because you don't know someone's story? Again, I'm not any sort of religious, but doesn't the Bible teach to give to the poor and feed the hungry? Isn't that what Jesus did? If your money is god's money, how do you decide who is deserving of it? Especially if you don't know someone's homeless/hungry/needy story. I'm having a hard time putting these two things together, because to me they seem contradictory.

***SITB*****

We're right there with @simplyelise. We feel that God has called us to be good stewards to his money. That means not giving a drunk a drink, a pothead a smoke, etc. Giving people in need, the tools to better themselves and have hope. Which is why my H feels so passionately about giving information to the homeless shelters/warm meal locations, and a Bible. If just 1 out of those 10 Bibles gives that homeless person hope to continue living and bettering themselves, then we have done our job as a good steward to Gods works and money.

I will never fell that because I'm a Christian I should just throw my money around to every thing that comes to my door or I see. That isn't being a good steward.

We have a very strict view on how and where we give our money, time, and things. I have had someone flat out tell me that I'm a bad Christian because I didn't give to their GoFundMe page to purchase a vehicle for their family (they were wanting to raise $15,000 to buy a 2nd car and were a 2 income family). I sent that person a copy of Dave Ramseys' Total Money Makeover book. Giving to their fund wouldn't have helped their income/spending problem, it would have created even more greed for them thinking others should buy them a nice vehicle without them needing to do any work or saving for it. But giving them TMM may cause them to rethink the way they're running their household and viewing their money and this "need" for a $15,000 vehicle that they are asking others to pay for.
- But I was a bad Christian because I don't have debt and didn't give them money to their fund. They felt that I had "more than enough to give." Which is very far from the truth.

hold up - a go fund me for a vehicle? That's just cray-cray. lol. I usually associate go fund me pages with medical issues and adoption.

formerlyGDaisy09 · October 2015

vlagrl29 said:

brij2006 said:

Mustard76 said:

I have a question for the people who don't give. I'm not judging, I'm genuinely curious. I am not religious in any sort of way. But I noticed the other day how many church-goers participate here. So my question is how you reconcile your beliefs that "our money is god's money" and other such beliefs with the other side that you don't give because you don't know someone's story? Again, I'm not any sort of religious, but doesn't the Bible teach to give to the poor and feed the hungry? Isn't that what Jesus did? If your money is god's money, how do you decide who is deserving of it? Especially if you don't know someone's homeless/hungry/needy story. I'm having a hard time putting these two things together, because to me they seem contradictory.

***SITB*****

We're right there with @simplyelise. We feel that God has called us to be good stewards to his money. That means not giving a drunk a drink, a pothead a smoke, etc. Giving people in need, the tools to better themselves and have hope. Which is why my H feels so passionately about giving information to the homeless shelters/warm meal locations, and a Bible. If just 1 out of those 10 Bibles gives that homeless person hope to continue living and bettering themselves, then we have done our job as a good steward to Gods works and money.

I will never fell that because I'm a Christian I should just throw my money around to every thing that comes to my door or I see. That isn't being a good steward.

We have a very strict view on how and where we give our money, time, and things. I have had someone flat out tell me that I'm a bad Christian because I didn't give to their GoFundMe page to purchase a vehicle for their family (they were wanting to raise $15,000 to buy a 2nd car and were a 2 income family). I sent that person a copy of Dave Ramseys' Total Money Makeover book. Giving to their fund wouldn't have helped their income/spending problem, it would have created even more greed for them thinking others should buy them a nice vehicle without them needing to do any work or saving for it. But giving them TMM may cause them to rethink the way they're running their household and viewing their money and this "need" for a $15,000 vehicle that they are asking others to pay for.
- But I was a bad Christian because I don't have debt and didn't give them money to their fund. They felt that I had "more than enough to give." Which is very far from the truth.

hold up - a go fund me for a vehicle? That's just cray-cray. lol. I usually associate go fund me pages with medical issues and adoption.

woah, that's crazy! I have a low tolerance for go-fund-me type drives...I don't give to things that are really due to bad planning, pet medical emergencies, "help me take a gap year" efforts, "help me pay for college"...etc. I will give to things that seem like good samaratain efforts, my cousin recently had two puppies dropped on her doorstep (she works actively with a rescue, people that live near her must have know she would take care of the abandoned dogs). She did all the right things, got in touch with shelters and rescues, got them to the vet (the vet donated their time and the care the pups needed), and was working the right avenues to get them help through established organizations, but she had them for a few weeks before one of the rescues was able to step-in and take them off her hands. For that I was more than willing to pitch into a go-fund-me to cover some of the food/supply expenses she couldn't handle.

Spinoff from charitable giving post - panhandling

Re: Spinoff from charitable giving post - panhandling

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