People traveling internationally over the holidays and 2016

hoffse · November 2015

I'm curious to hear if you all are keeping your plans as-is? I think there are a few of us.

H and I have plans to go to Germany and Belgium in December. In fact, the Belgian portion has us staying in central Brussels, about as close to the tourist stuff you can get. Yeah. My mom is flipping out. I keep telling her that nothing has actually happened there yet, and we aren't going for another month, but she doesn't hear me.

Right now we're still planning on going, but we're watching the situation over there. Our hotels are refundable, so we might change plans slightly and stay in a different part of the city just to pacify my mom a bit. At the end of the day, if we cancelled the trip completely we would be out about $600, but we would get all of our points redeposited. I also bought trip insurance, so I might even get most of that $600 back. Still, though. I really don't want the terrorists to win.

What are others thinking?

orangehills · November 2015

I'm not traveling, but that's so sad to think this is even an issue!! Screw terrorists.

bmo88 · November 2015

I just saw the travel advisory and it is a little concerning. We have a three week trip to Europe planned soon. We have planned this trip for 5 years and dang it, we are determined to go. My mom is flipping her sh*t right now. She already worries a lot and this isn't helping. We are still going to go, but are watching the situation closely. DH is not really worried, but the newest travel warning has me on edge. We have about $4,000 spent (out of $6,000) already. We could cancel hotels, but the flights are booked. Crossing my fingers things calm down a bit, but who knows.

orangehills · November 2015

I think all you can do is take a chance, unless things get really bad. I'm a big believer of, if it's your time, it's your time.. but then again, you don't want to put yourself in worse situations. I hope you guys get to go on your trips!

short+sassy · November 2015

Me too!

dragonstarjk · November 2015

This sucks! I hope you guys get to go on your trips as planned, and then you come home and give us all of the fabulous details

hoffse · November 2015

Not going to lie, I have a strong urge to be in Paris right now. It's such an amazing place, and I would love to see it lit up for the holidays.

We actually visited Saint-Denis while we were in Paris to see the cathedral. It's where all the French kinds are buried, including Charles Martel and Marie Antoinette, among others. The fact that we visited there in July is freaking my mom out. I have no idea why, because we've been there and returned safely and have no imminent plans to go back, but she keeps saying that we "choose unsafe destinations to visit - just look at Saint-Denis!" Ugh.

For the record, Saint-Denis cathedral was absolutely incredible. I thought it was way way better than Notre Dame.

One thing my mom has a hard time contextualizing is where stuff is actually happening. Saint-Denis is a solid 40 minute metro ride from central Paris where tourists hang out. It's seriously on the fringes. In fact, I'm pretty sure it's the very last stop on one of the metro lines. I can guarantee you that virtually no other Paris residents knew the shootout happened there until they saw it on their own news.

The raids in Brussels are similar - this isn't happening in the main tourist hubs, and most of the people who live there are watching this stuff happen on their news. All of my H's relatives who live in Brussels have emailed saying that more than anything, they are just really bored.

The global travel alert has thrown me for a loop, but I'm giving myself a few days to process it before we make any decisions based on it. The state department has multiple levels (caution, alert, warning). This was an alert, not a warning. They actually issued a caution for the same reason while we were in France. We saw some armed guards do sweeps of a train station while we were in Paris, but otherwise we saw no signs of trouble.

dragonstarjk · November 2015

Totally feel you on the mom thing. My mom just sent me an urgent email as I was reading this post, about the travel alert--because H and I are flying to Washington state tomorrow. I told her it was mostly related to international travel but that of course we would be vigilant as always while traveling.

JoanE2012 · November 2015

We are traveling to Belgium in early spring with my inlaws and they've already floated around the idea that they may not want to go (and we'd probably back out too). We have about a month to decide - if we don't do it by and decide not to go later then DH and I will be out almost 10k. It feels so far off and so much can change so quickly, but it's a scary out there! Doesn't help that I'm TERRIFIED of flying.

Xstatic3333 · November 2015

Our trip isn't until mid-March, but I was thinking of those of you with December trips as I have watched the news lately. Currently, all we have booked is flights to Amsterdam and an AirBnB there. If the situation is as it is currently, we will still go. There has been no more of a specific threat to Amsterdam yet than there has been to NYC, where I'm going in a couple of weeks without a second thought. The way I see it, I still feel that the most dangerous thing I do is drive in Rhode Island, where we have awful drivers and a very high accident rate. I'm not perfect, however, and I do think about this stuff, as much as I'd love to just rise above it.

We were planning to take a night away from Amsterdam to take the train to Brussels, see the Cantillon brewery, and then another train to spend the day in Bruges. If I were leaving tomorrow, we would not be going to Brussels, and probably not to Belgium at all. The difference between our plans and yours, @hoffse, is that you have family there if I recall correctly. We're just tourists so changing around this part of the trip is not a huge deal. If we don't do an overnight in Belgium we'll probably do one in Germany--again, if things stay as they are.

If things were to deteriorate or a specific, credible threat to Amsterdam came through, we have a few Plan B's. One, our flights already go through Dublin, so we could do a week there instead. Ireland seems a bit farther removed from the threats and is someplace I'd love to return to with H. Two, we have travel insurance on our plane tickets that includes a political/terrorism clause. I'm not sure how hard it is to have that applied, but if we could get our money back we'd plan a trip to the Caribbean for the same week. Our AirBnB has a pretty liberal cancellation policy.

Those of you going sooner, let us know what you decide. Hoping for safe travels for us all.

BlueBirdMB · November 2015

We don't have anything planned, but it sucks for those who do. We've been planning a trip for next year, but haven't been able to settle on a location, but when H saw the travel alert he said, "Let's settle on Hawaii." So maybe Hawaii it is.

simplyelise · November 2015

My mom watched Taken a couple months before I traveled by myself (met a group there) to rural Tanzania when I was 19, and she completely freaked herself out. I didn't see the movie until I got back and I was laughing so hard because all the girl did was share a taxi. Due to necessity, I'd hitchhiked a few times with a british girl and even once by myself. The only thing that freaked me out after the fact was that on my mid-project break from building a school, I traveled with my project friend to the coast and we went snorkeling. Turns out we were really not far from the somali pirate zone and in 2009, that was prime pirating time.

While Belgium would make me pause, I think I'd stick with my plans. Tomorrow you could get run over by bus and all that. It's still much more dangerous to drive to work each day than it is to travel under an alert.

ETA words are hard.

hoffse · November 2015

The State Department has had a worldwide travel caution or alert active for at least the last year. I'm not sure why the media jumped all over the one that was issued yesterday, except that they see it as another angle to this developing story.

If we were supposed to leave for Brussels this past weekend, we would probably have changed things up pretty seriously, if only because the lockdown in Brussels makes accessing the tourist stuff difficult. With the metro closed it's hard to get around. Everything is supposed to reopen tomorrow though.

I could be totally wrong about this, but if nothing further happens over the next couple of weeks, I think the American news media will shift away from covering the atmosphere over there. The reports coming out of Brussels right now are still just about the lockdown and a few arrests. But they literally have nothing else to report. When it all goes back to normal tomorrow I think it will fade away, unless something really big happens there.

It looks like the Christmas markets in Paris have opened. The markets for Brussels are supposed to open on Thursday.

Xstatic3333 · November 2015

I think you're right, @hoffse. The media is all about selling a news story, and the current travel alert pretty much reads as a reminder to practice common sense. Your family in Brussels is probably a much more reliable source about how safe it is to go there. I'm sure the Christmas markets will be amazing!

On a related note, if anyone is on Twitter check out the #BrusselsLockdown hashtag. Residents were told not to tweet about the raids, so they furiously tweeted cat memes instead.

jtmh2012 · November 2015

We have a cruise scheduled for September. My parents may or may not be joining us. Even though I'm still making payments on the cruise, I won't lie, I've considered cancelling it and changing itineraries.

Erikan73 · November 2015

I think for those with travel plans the best thing to do is go ahead with your travels if you comfortable to stay aware of your surroundings. Create a plan in advance with family that if by some freak chance something happens in the area you are in, that you will contact one specific person to let them know you are ok or that you will post something to facebook so that all your family & friends know you are ok. One article I read said it's important that when at places, especially buildings, to know where your exits are in case you do need to make a quick exit. By no means am I saying to go around and being paranoid, but it doesn't hurt to be an alert traveler. These things can even help you not only in the event of a terrorist attack, but what if a weather disaster hits or even dealing with someone who tries to steal your purse. I think the key is to travel as an alert prepared traveler, and that's good advise no matter where you travel be it internationally or locally.

hoffse · November 2015

@Elise, my dad watched Taken right before I went to Italy the first time. I was going with a study abroad group, so it was no big deal but he flipped out. My second day there I did leave the group to go exploring on my own, but I didn't tell him that until I got back, lol.

brij2006 · November 2015

I wouldn't change my plans and would still go. You're going to be visiting family there, right? You have been in contact with them and everything. I would feel a lot more comfortable going there because you know civilians who live there, and can have a place to go where it's "family," if something drastic were to happen.

But I don't get worked up about this kind of stuff. Unless a city is completely shut down, I still travel.

julieanne912 · November 2015

I don't have any plans to travel anywhere soon but I would still go unless it was literally a warzone. These days, nothing is 100% safe.

als1982 · November 2015

julieanne912 said:
I don't have any plans to travel anywhere soon but I would still go unless it was literally a warzone. These days, nothing is 100% safe.

This. We went to Paris last May and it was the most unsafe we've felt anywhere we've ever traveled and we visited North Africa the trip before. But would we go again? Absolutely, without a doubt.

hoffse · November 2015

als1982 said:

I don't have any plans to travel anywhere soon but I would still go unless it was literally a warzone. These days, nothing is 100% safe.
This. We went to Paris last May and it was the most unsafe we've felt anywhere we've ever traveled and we visited North Africa the trip before. But would we go again? Absolutely, without a doubt.

That's really interesting. Could you pinpoint why? It felt fine to us when we were there in July.

I think the most unsafe I have ever felt was in Jamaica on our honeymoon. A few months after we got back the worldwide homicide reports were released and Jamaica was 4th in the world for homicides per capita that year. I was like, "Oh. That's why it felt sketchy."

BlueBirdMB · November 2015

hoffse said:

als1982 said:

I don't have any plans to travel anywhere soon but I would still go unless it was literally a warzone. These days, nothing is 100% safe.
This. We went to Paris last May and it was the most unsafe we've felt anywhere we've ever traveled and we visited North Africa the trip before. But would we go again? Absolutely, without a doubt.

That's really interesting. Could you pinpoint why? It felt fine to us when we were there in July.

I think the most unsafe I have ever felt was in Jamaica on our honeymoon. A few months after we got back the worldwide homicide reports were released and Jamaica was 4th in the world for homicides per capita that year. I was like, "Oh. That's why it felt sketchy."

My parents were in Paris a little over a year ago. They didn't feel unsafe per say, but they were horrified at the anti-semitism. They saw a man in a yamaka get yelled at by a Muslim man who screamed "Jew" as he walked by. They saw a giant swastika painted into the grass below the Eiffel tower and tons of anti-semitic graffiti. I honestly didn't want them to go. I had read about the amount of anti-semitic attacks in France (literally it's a daily occurrence). Even though no one would know my mom is Jewish, why would you want to visit a place where you aren't welcomed?

als1982 · November 2015

hoffse said:

als1982 said:

I don't have any plans to travel anywhere soon but I would still go unless it was literally a warzone. These days, nothing is 100% safe.
This. We went to Paris last May and it was the most unsafe we've felt anywhere we've ever traveled and we visited North Africa the trip before. But would we go again? Absolutely, without a doubt.

That's really interesting. Could you pinpoint why? It felt fine to us when we were there in July.

I think the most unsafe I have ever felt was in Jamaica on our honeymoon. A few months after we got back the worldwide homicide reports were released and Jamaica was 4th in the world for homicides per capita that year. I was like, "Oh. That's why it felt sketchy."

We were there on VE Day, and with it being the 70th anniversary there were large crowds and the Champs Elysees was closed to traffic. There were just lots of unusual behaviors within the crowds that had us concerned, such as a man dressed in bright colors and a backpack blowing a horn and whistle with the intent of attracting attention, it seemed, of the police. We just felt he was up to something.

We were also pretty shocked with the publicly voiced anti-Islamic sentiment we found both there and in London coming from conversations with complete strangers.

hoffse · November 2015

BlueBirdMB said:

hoffse said:

als1982 said:

I don't have any plans to travel anywhere soon but I would still go unless it was literally a warzone. These days, nothing is 100% safe.
This. We went to Paris last May and it was the most unsafe we've felt anywhere we've ever traveled and we visited North Africa the trip before. But would we go again? Absolutely, without a doubt.

That's really interesting. Could you pinpoint why? It felt fine to us when we were there in July.

I think the most unsafe I have ever felt was in Jamaica on our honeymoon. A few months after we got back the worldwide homicide reports were released and Jamaica was 4th in the world for homicides per capita that year. I was like, "Oh. That's why it felt sketchy."

My parents were in Paris a little over a year ago. They didn't feel unsafe per say, but they were horrified at the anti-semitism. They saw a man in a yamaka get yelled at by a Muslim man who screamed "Jew" as he walked by. They saw a giant swastika painted into the grass below the Eiffel tower and tons of anti-semitic graffiti. I honestly didn't want them to go. I had read about the amount of anti-semitic attacks in France (literally it's a daily occurrence). Even though no one would know my mom is Jewish, why would you want to visit a place where you aren't welcomed?

Eh I hate they saw all that stuff. The reality is that most people who visit Paris don't encounter that kind of thing. H and I certainly didn't, and as I mentioned we visited Saint-Denis, which is a really seedy neighborhood and is where the ISIS terrorists apparently liked to hang out.

In fact, we thought Paris was far more multicultural than even a place like NYC, judging by the nationalities of the tourists we saw. We encountered WAY more tourists than actual French people there.

I guess it's sort of like when people encounter racism in the south. Most southerners are not racist, but you have this really vocal minority that ruins the reputation of the entire region. If a visitor is unlucky enough to be a victim of racism while they are here, then it just perpetuates the stereotype and makes people feel unwelcome.

I hope they get a chance to return and have a more pleasant (and normal) visit. It's a really amazing city.

People traveling internationally over the holidays and 2016

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