new to this

myfurbaby · December 2015

I am just about to turn 26 and I have never ever had a budget. I ran across this board and noticed that it was still active so I thought I would turn to you all for some advice. In 2016 I want to begin budgeting and setting financial goals. Here are a few questions that i have and i know that everyone's situation is different.
1. would you all recommend a seperate account for savings/emergency fund or lump it into 1 account
2. would you recommend a seperate checking account for Bills or use one account? Right now i do not have a bank account at all

will open one on friday)
3. what do you all use for budgeting? spread sheets, aps, or good ole pen and paper?
4. what things should be included in a budget
5. should i do a budget monthly or for the full year
6. i do have one credit card with a 15,000.00 limit with a zero balance. Would you all recommend paying for everything with credit card or cash?
7. how much liquid cash do you all have in a checking account, savings account, and efund?- right now i have 0.00 in all 3- trying to figure out the types of accounts i should open
8. if you all have 2016 budgets prepared please share with me

SORRY for all the questions, i am so new to this and really have no idea .

julieanne912 · December 2015

Welcome! Feel free to ask questions... won't learn anything if you don't ask

1. would you all recommend a seperate account for savings/emergency fund or lump it into 1 account This is up to you. If you have the self control to know that some of the money in your savings is earmarked for your E-fund, then one account is fine. Some people would rather have 2 accounts so it's totally separate and easier to keep track of.

2. would you recommend a seperate checking account for Bills or use one account? Right now i do not have a bank account at all will open one on friday) I just use one account mainly. I do have 2 checking accounts, one at Chase and another at a credit union. But we just converted the credit union to a joint account between my H and myself, so it's not used for much except for when we need to transfer money to each other (we still have separate finances for the most part). I think having 2 working checking accounts is making things too complicated.
3. what do you all use for budgeting? spread sheets, aps, or good ole pen and paper?

I have a google doc spreadsheet for my budget that is updated per paycheck. I also use mint.com just to categorize expenses but I don't use it for anything else.
4. what things should be included in a budget

Everything. Your usual bills, plus spending money, groceries, etc. Some people even categorize their spending money down to separate items like clothing, "fun" money, etc. I don't do that except in my head... ie "Well if I spend $30 on these clothes, that means I can't eat out more than once next week"... or whatever.
5. should i do a budget monthly or for the full year

This is up to you. I budget per paycheck because my pay periods are every other Friday... so the bill due dates and expenses change depending on when in the month it is, and I also receive bonuses at work in varying amounts once a month. I can't see how budgeting for a full year at the beginning of the year is all that great though, only because things could change throughout the year.
6. i do have one credit card with a 15,000.00 limit with a zero balance. Would you all recommend paying for everything with credit card or cash?

If you decide to pay for everything with credit card, you have to have A LOT of discipline to pay it off every month before you accrue interest. I did this years ago, and did pretty good for awhile, but I found it was easier to overspend if the money wasn't coming straight out of my checking account.
7. how much liquid cash do you all have in a checking account, savings account, and efund?- right now i have 0.00 in all 3- trying to figure out the types of accounts i should open I'm very cash poor at the moment.
8. if you all have 2016 budgets prepared please share with me

There are lots of previous threads in the recent past where folks have shared their budgets. Budgets vary greatly because everyone has different bills/expenses.

orangehills · December 2015

1- Yes, I'd have a checking account, and a savings account. Use the checking account for your monthly payments, and the savings account for just savings.

2. One checking account for all bills should be sufficient.

3. I use an Excel spreadsheet for my budgeting- I just list all of my monthly bills and have them all subtract from my take home. That way, it's easy to change the amounts of everything and see how much it all adds up to, and where I have to spend less. I know there are some good apps for budgeting as well.

4. All things should be included in a budget! rent/mortgage, car insurance/registration savings (so when you go to pay it's not a shock), food, gas, fun money, dr apts, utilities, phone, any bill you pay every month!

5. Do a budget for each month, since certain bills change per month and your needs one month may be more expensive than the next. But have a goal for your entire year as well.

6. Up to you. I put almost everything on a credit card and pay it off each month, so I earn points.

7. I keep only enough in the checking account to cover each month expense, then at the beginning of the next month, I put more in to cover that month. The rest is in savings, which currently includes our efund. My bank does have free overdraft though, so if for some reason I accidentally overdraft, no fees.

Good luck!! You'll get lots of good ideas here

cbee817 · December 2015

1. would you all recommend a seperate account for savings/emergency fund or lump it into 1 account

We have a general savings account, vacation fund, and longer term savings (CDs)
2. would you recommend a seperate checking account for Bills or use one account? Right now i do not have a bank account at all will open one on friday)

We have 2 checking accounts- one for me, one for DH
3. what do you all use for budgeting? spread sheets, aps, or good ole pen and paper?

We use excel- it's worked for us since 2005 so I haven't changed it yet
4. what things should be included in a budget

All expenses, income
5. should i do a budget monthly or for the full year

We budget the full year by month- fill in with actual values as bills come in and redistribute if needed.
6. i do have one credit card with a 15,000.00 limit with a zero balance. Would you all recommend paying for everything with credit card or cash?

We pay for everything with credit cards- use points, rewards instead of worrying about carrying cash
7. how much liquid cash do you all have in a checking account, savings account, and efund?- right now i have 0.00 in all 3- trying to figure out the types of accounts i should open

checking varies day to day as bills and paychecks go in and out, but we try to have at least $500 in each checking account

savings account (that we can get to immediately) has 3 months of expenses, our vacation fund has over 1 month too that we can get to.

longer term savings (that we can get to with a small penalty) has about 5 months of expenses

AprilZ81 · December 2015

Welcome!

A lot of your questions deal with personal preference and as you get better at budgeting and saving you may change your methods and that is normal.

1. would you all recommend a seperate account for savings/emergency fund or lump it into 1 account I keep multiple accounts, it is easier for me to think twice about spending savings when I have to actually transfer the money from savings to checking to pay for it.
2. would you recommend a seperate checking account for Bills or use one account? Right now i do not have a bank account at all will open one on friday) We have one checking account for spending, and multiple savings accounts for saving (general saving, Christmas/Gifts, Car Maintenance, ROTH, Vacation). Make sure your new account(s) don't charge monthly fees.
3. what do you all use for budgeting? spread sheets, aps, or good ole pen and paper? I use a (free) app called Good Budget. It is a virtual envelope system and helps you decide how much money you have each month and where your money is going. Having the app on my phone allows me to enter transactions as I make the purchase so I don't lose track.
4. what things should be included in a budget Here are my categories: Gas for car, Groceries/Household Supplies, My fun money, DH fun money (we can spend it on whatever we want without judgement), Entertainment, Church/Charity Giving, Mortgage/Utilities/Cell Phones, HELOC, Sinking Fund (any item we pay for annually or quarterly, like Costco Membership, Sirius Satellite Radio, Amazon Prime, etc I add it all up and divide by 12 so we have the money available), Clothes, Home Improvement, Car Insurance/Maintenance, General Savings, Vacation Fund, Christmas/Other Gifts and our ROTH accounts. All of our categories roll over from one month to the next and if for some reason the balance gets high we move money to savings and rework the budget. It is very overwhelming to try to budget for every.single.thing so I would keep some flexibility/cushion in for things like hair cuts and other things that don't get purchased every month.
5. should i do a budget monthly or for the full year I would start with a month-by-month budget. Since you've not lived with a budget before you won't get it "right" the first time (and that is okay). Don't put extra pressure on yourself to get it right for the whole year at the start.
6. i do have one credit card with a 15,000.00 limit with a zero balance. Would you all recommend paying for everything with credit card or cash? Do you get points for the purchases? Do you have any other debt? I use a credit card to put everything we can on for the points but I pay the balance every month. IF (and only if) you know you will be able to pay it off in full I think this is okay. I would also work up to this slowly so you don't get shocked by a huge bill the first month you do it. Start with gas and groceries, then add in entertainment and utilities, etc.
7. how much liquid cash do you all have in a checking account, savings account, and efund?- right now i have 0.00 in all 3- trying to figure out the types of accounts i should open We keep a $2,000 cushion in our checking account (above and beyond our normal income and expenses) in case there is a bank error or we have a hiccup in our budgeting. Everything else gets funneled into savings. We've been doing a lot of projects in our house (kitchen remodel, getting ready to do our master bathroom, etc.) so we keep building up and spending our non emergency savings account. This will be personal preference for you as well. If you aren't saving for a specific goal then after your efund is built up I would work on investing your savings to help it grow.
8. if you all have 2016 budgets prepared please share with me

dragonstarjk · December 2015

Welcome! I love seeing people take charge of their finances

1. would you all recommend a seperate account for savings/emergency fund or lump it into 1 account?Up to you, but I prefer separate accounts. I have one for e-fund, and several others for travel, home improvement, gifts, etc.
2. would you recommend a seperate checking account for Bills or use one account? Right now i do not have a bank account at all will open one on friday)Again, up to you. I have one main checking account that all bills and savings deposits come out of. H and I have separate accounts.
3. what do you all use for budgeting? spread sheets, aps, or good ole pen and paper?I use good old pen and paper.
4. what things should be included in a budgetAll of your expenses, such as bills, but also savings, retirement contributions, fun stuff, insurance, etc.
5. should i do a budget monthly or for the full year I actually do mine for every two weeks when I get paid, but I write out each paycheck for a full year and then adjust as needed.
6. i do have one credit card with a 15,000.00 limit with a zero balance. Would you all recommend paying for everything with credit card or cash? Depends how disciplined you are. I pay for everything with my credit card to earn points, but I am super disciplined and always pay the balance in full. If you can't use it without accumulating debt/interest, then don't use it.
7. how much liquid cash do you all have in a checking account, savings account, and efund?- right now i have 0.00 in all 3- trying to figure out the types of accounts i should open I am in the minority, as I keep small amounts of liquid cash. Between all of my accounts, I probably have about $2K. I also have $2K in a CD that I consider an e-fund. I don't try to maintain a certain balance in my accounts, other than if they have minimum balance. Definitely shop around for a bank/accounts that will meet your needs.
8. if you all have 2016 budgets prepared please share with me I don't have access to mine at the moment, but we are in the final stages of wrapping up our budget for next year.

P.S. I work in banking and specifically new accounts. If you have any general questions about opening bank accounts, I might be able to help. *I cannot give any legal or tax advice.

Xstatic3333 · December 2015

Welcome! You'll get lots of different answers to these questions but that's the beauty of this board

1. would you all recommend a seperate account for savings/emergency fund or lump it into 1 account

I have a checking account for money I'll be using soon, a linked savings account for things like car repair, travel and vet expenses, and an emergency fund at a separate bank. I don't have the self control to have my e-fund easily accessible.

2. would you recommend a seperate checking account for Bills or use one account? Right now i do not have a bank account at all will open one on friday)

I pay my bills out of my checking account. I don't like autopay, and only use it when it is the only option. I pay my bills manually each payday so the money is "gone" as soon as possible.

3. what do you all use for budgeting? spread sheets, aps, or good ole pen and paper?

Spread sheet

4. what things should be included in a budget

Mine includes mortgage, life insurance, homeowners insurance (not escrowed for us), dog expenses, "fun money," gas, groceries, car payments, student loan payments, sinking fund (for vet, car tax, some travel, oil changes, car maintenance, and annual memberships, AAA, etc., divided up yearly by our number of paychecks), savings, my Roth IRA, and any occasional expenses we are cash flowing. It changes week to week.

5. should i do a budget monthly or for the full year

Monthly. This will allow you to be flexible as things change. We do a monthly budget and then reevaluate before each paycheck.

6. i do have one credit card with a 15,000.00 limit with a zero balance. Would you all recommend paying for everything with credit card or cash?

Different schools of thought here. We use a CC for most purchases for the travel points but then pay it right off. Others prefer to use debit most of the time.

7. how much liquid cash do you all have in a checking account, savings account, and efund?- right now i have 0.00 in all 3- trying to figure out the types of accounts i should open

H has asked me to chill a bit on sharing specific numbers on this board. I'll say that our e-fund goal is three months of expenses, but we're not there yet. I don't keep a buffer in my checking account; just money that I'm allowed to spend (ok, maybe a $10-20 buffer).

8. if you all have 2016 budgets prepared please share with me

SORRY for all the questions, i am so new to this and really have no idea .

Xstatic3333 · December 2015

Also OP, I really recommend the book "Smart Women Finish Rich" by David Bach as you figure all this stuff out. Lots of great, basic information as well as help in identifying which goals are most meaningful for YOU to focus on.

simplyelise · December 2015

1. would you all recommend a separate account for savings/emergency fund or lump it into 1 account

One checking and one savings account is a great starting place. Savings can be where you save for your emergency fund and other savings goals (cars or vacations) and checking is where you can do most of your daily transactions. Most people like to have their paychecks deposited straight into their checking accounts. Then if you'd like, you can have automatic transfers from checking to savings (like if you want to save $100 from each paycheck, you could make it automatic).

2. would you recommend a seperate checking account for Bills or use one account? Right now i do not have a bank account at all will open one on friday)

Definitely start with just one. It's easy to set up another later if you feel like you need it.

3. what do you all use for budgeting? spread sheets, aps, or good ole pen and paper?

We use Everydollar.com right now, but we've used spreadsheets in the past. If you'd like to see an example or copy, here is the spreadsheet setup we used to use:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1ryk0pNlChaq93yBDsMZq_D0bmrnXV7FU9nrt7Z01HEk/edit?usp=sharing

The important thing to budgeting is to first write out where you want all your money to go (could base this by month or paycheck depending on which you prefer) the other half of budgeting is to track your expenses to make sure you stay on budget. The link above has the budget on one sheet and then on the second sheet it gives a place to list each expense with automatic subtractions.

4. what things should be included in a budget

Fixed expenses (bills like rent/mortgage, utilities, insurance) variable needs (fuel, groceries, haircuts, toiletries), variable wants (eating out, entertainment, gifts). It can also be helpful to save up for yearly expenses by saving a little each month. DH and I save a bit each month for our gym membership, but we only pay for it once a year.

5. should i do a budget monthly or for the full year

When you first start budgeting, you'll have a lot of adjustments that you will need to make as you remember different expenses and figure out exactly how much you should budget for groceries. So start with a monthly budget and don't worry about anything else for a few months. We don't budget yearly, but we do have yearly goals for our big things (debt payoff, car savings, other savings).

6. i do have one credit card with a 15,000.00 limit with a zero balance. Would you all recommend paying for everything with credit card or cash?

Everyone has different comfort levels here. I have the same situation with a 15k limit and zero balance, but the card is just through my bank, so there are no points or rewards. I keep using it because I've had it for several years and it helps my credit. So I just put fuel purchases on the card and pay it off monthly. Others here work CCs for points, but I wouldn't recommend that currently for you until you get your feet a bit wetter.

7. how much liquid cash do you all have in a checking account, savings account, and efund?- right now i have 0.00 in all 3- trying to figure out the types of accounts i should open

We only have 2000 in our savings right now with 1100 in a separate savings account for a car replacement. We're in debt payoff mode and have very few liabilities and little risk, so we have a low e-fund. Most financial gurus recommend saving 3-6 months of your expenses in your emergency fund. We have a buffer in our checking account of around 800. This just helps with cashflow so that we don't have to pay 100% attention to when we get paid versus when we pay bills.

8. if you all have 2016 budgets prepared please share with me

Don't really have room here, but you should be able to find these in several recent new poster questions!

As a personal shout out, DH and I have been working to pay off 55,421 in student loan debt since November 2014. We only have 21,610 left and I've been blogging about the process. Several friends have asked for help getting started towards their own financial goals, so I wrote this megapost on how to get started with budgeting and making financial goals. If you're interested, you can find it here: http://www.markelise.com/blog/how-to-start

hoffse · December 2015

1. would you all recommend a seperate account for savings/emergency fund or lump it into 1 account

Most people seem to do better when the e-fund is separate from other savings that you can dip into. Ultimately it doesn't really matter because money is fungible. But if it's easier for you to see it or not spend the e-fund by keeping it separate, then by all means keep it separate.

2. would you recommend a seperate checking account for Bills or use one account? Right now i do not have a bank account at all will open one on friday)

I would do one account that you pay bills out of and at least one account for savings (or two if you want your e-fund separate). H and I have many more than that, but 1 checking and 1 or 2 savings accounts will get you started.

3. what do you all use for budgeting? spread sheets, aps, or good ole pen and paper?

We use a google spreadsheet that we manually update each day. We do it this way so that we can each see the spreadsheet in real time on our computers at work or home.

4. what things should be included in a budget

Use categories that make sense for your lifestyle and needs. We have mortgage, student loans, car loan, utilities (I lump gas, electric, and water all into one column), insurance, columns for various monthly subscriptions, gas, groceries, sinking fund for annual dues, and "save or spend" which is really our miscellaneous column. Next year we are starting a sinking fund for clothing and also for gifts.

5. should i do a budget monthly or for the full year

I look at both. We track our budget by the month, but I try to get a sense of how much we can reasonably expect to save on a yearly basis. This is mostly because we like to travel, and that usually involves spending a lot of money on plane tickets in one month, but not actually taking the trip until many months later. So we try to get a sense of what our savings rate should look like through the year so that I know when I can pull the trigger on travel deals.

6. i do have one credit card with a 15,000.00 limit with a zero balance. Would you all recommend paying for everything with credit card or cash?

I do everything by credit card for points, and I leverage them pretty heavily for travel expenses. Consumer protection laws also favor credit cards a bit more than debit cards, so I prefer them for that reason also. But only use credit cards if you can exercise the self control to not overspend on them. You need to make sure you can always pay the balance in full.

7. how much liquid cash do you all have in a checking account, savings account, and efund?- right now i have 0.00 in all 3- trying to figure out the types of accounts i should open

We keep a minimum of about $10K spread throughout multiple accounts. It's often higher than that if we're saving for something specific.
8. if you all have 2016 budgets prepared please share with me

Noted above.

brij2006 · December 2015

1. would you all recommend a seperate account for savings/emergency fund or lump it into 1 account

I would keep it separate, but that's just my preference. We have our emergency fund in savings, and our day to day spending comes out of checking.
2. would you recommend a seperate checking account for Bills or use one account? Right now i do not have a bank account at all will open one on friday)

I would just use 1 account for all transactions. Bills you pay, groceries, gas, etc.

You could also pull out cash after every paycheck and put it into envelopes under certain categories, if you're used to using cash and like doing that. Just have an envelope for gas, groceries, eating out, entertainment, clothing, etc. Write on the front of it, what it's for and how much you started with. Then subtract each time you pull cash out of it for something.
3. what do you all use for budgeting? spread sheets, aps, or good ole pen and paper?

I use everydollar.com. It's really easy to use, and we budget our month down to zero at the beginning of the month. So we have a rough number on what we will bring in for income, then divy that up into categories.
4. what things should be included in a budget

Every penny you will spend.
5. should i do a budget monthly or for the full year

We do monthly because no 2 months are the same. Our usual bills I just carry over, but even our utilities fluctuate depending on winter or summer. So I budget for those fluctuations, and will budget in extra for eating out if there's a birthday in that month or we know we will be going out more due to certain things.
6. i do have one credit card with a 15,000.00 limit with a zero balance. Would you all recommend paying for everything with credit card or cash?

I would recommend cash. But that's just my preference. We use our debit card for every transaction, because it's easier to track.

There's a study that says people who use credit cards for daily transactions, spend 40% more than they would if they were using cash or a debit card and it was removed directly from their checking account. I believe it. We used to use credit for everything so we could earn points, and we spent a lot more than we do now with cash and debit.
7. how much liquid cash do you all have in a checking account, savings account, and efund?- right now i have 0.00 in all 3- trying to figure out the types of accounts i should open

Well ours doesn't count and is not the norm. We have a lot in our various savings accounts. But really, we have $15,000 in our emergency fund (9 months of expenses) and $5,000 buffer in our checking account.

We also have a substantial amount in a separate savings account for various earmarked spending.
8. if you all have 2016 budgets prepared please share with me

hoffse · December 2015

@Brij, I've looked for that study before and have never been able to find it. I would be interested in reading it. Can you remember where you read that?

I'm wondering if they lump in the people who carry credit card debt with the people who don't, because that would explain such a large increase in spending.

I've personally experimented with cash, debit, and credit at times, and I never really spent more with credit. But I also look at our bank account and subtract our CC balances every couple of days, so I'm aware of how much we are obligating ourselves by using credit. If you don't watch it you can run up a big bill.

I personally never thought that using debit cards felt any different than using credit cards since they're both plastic and both require constant monitoring to make sure you aren't over-extending yourself. They do feel different than using cash though. Honestly I feel like I spend more with cash because there isn't an electronic record somewhere that I feel obligated to review that holds me accountable. I've learned that I just can't carry cash because it will be gone, and I could not tell you what I spent it on.

dragonstarjk · December 2015

hoffse said:

@Brij, I've looked for that study before and have never been able to find it. I would be interested in reading it. Can you remember where you read that?

I'm wondering if they lump in the people who carry credit card debt with the people who don't, because that would explain such a large increase in spending.

I've personally experimented with cash, debit, and credit at times, and I never really spent more with credit. But I also look at our bank account and subtract our CC balances every couple of days, so I'm aware of how much we are obligating ourselves by using credit. If you don't watch it you can run up a big bill.

I personally never thought that using debit cards felt any different than using credit cards since they're both plastic and both require constant monitoring to make sure you aren't over-extending yourself. They do feel different than using cash though. Honestly I feel like I spend more with cash because there isn't an electronic record somewhere that I feel obligated to review that holds me accountable. I've learned that I just can't carry cash because it will be gone, and I could not tell you what I spent it on.

*SITB* Ditto all of this! I not only use CCs for points, but also because I find that I am better at tracking it than if I had cash. As far as CCs vs. debit cards, I know it has come up before, but there are many situations where using a CC is just more secure than using a debit card. I never use a debit card online, at places where there is a preauth, or anywhere that it leaves my sight (like a restaurant). I have never found that I spend more using credit than I would using cash/debit. Although, like I said--I also 100% do NOT recommend CC use to anybody who knows they can't responsibly pay it off every month and stay within a budget.

bmo88 · December 2015

@ brij2006 I would like to see the study too. We use credit cards for everything and pay off at the end of the month. We did a cash system before and it didn't save us any money, but was more of a pain in the butt to track. I don't see debit cards as any different than credit cards.

If someone is irresponsible then having a credit card won't help and will be worse. But merely using a credit card does not ensure you will spend more. Correlation does not imply causation.

OP I would suggest a balanced approach based on research and trial and error. Find things that work for you and make changes when needed. Don't just stick with one specific model or become inflexible. I have found that those who adjust and continue to learn are far more financially literate, confident and successful than those who only follow specific plans created by others.

als1982 · December 2015

First, good for you for starting to think about this at 25/26! I would venture to guess once you get going with budgeting, saving and spending more wisely, you'll be way ahead of most in their mid-20s.

1. would you all recommend a seperate account for savings/emergency fund or lump it into 1 account?

I would personally separate the accounts. If you're single, start with an emergency fund of a full month's expenses: the total cost of rent, utilities, food, student loan, car, insurance payments, etc. Once you have that, I would start looking at saving for retirement. Are you doing anything in this regard?

2. would you recommend a seperate checking account for Bills or use one account?

One checking account, one savings account.

3. what do you all use for budgeting?

We use an Excel spreadsheet for budgeting but Mint to track our bigger financial picture and net worth.

4. what things should be included in a budget?

Housing, utilities, any payments such as cable, phone, internet, insurance, car, student loan, etc. Also food, any charitable giving, miscellaneous like haircuts, clothes, etc. Also, give yourself a small line item for entertainment.

5. should i do a budget monthly or for the full year?

We budget by the paycheck, which when I single was every two weeks. It was nice since it made for two 'bonus' checks per year.

6. i do have one credit card with a 15,000.00 limit with a zero balance. Would you all recommend paying for everything with credit card or cash?

I would ONLY use credit if it doesn't cause you to spent more and you can pay it off every month.

7. how much liquid cash do you all have in a checking account, savings account, and efund?

We only keep $1,000 but we have two incomes and only need one to pay all the bills. If it's just you, I'd suggest start with a full month's expenses.

Good luck and do stick around - this place is great for advice and motivation!! And know that we all started where you're sitting right now.

hoffse · December 2015

bmo88 said:

@ brij2006 I would like to see the study too. We use credit cards for everything and pay off at the end of the month. We did a cash system before and it didn't save us any money, but was more of a pain in the butt to track. I don't see debit cards as any different than credit cards. If someone is irresponsible then having a credit card won't help and will be worse. But merely using a credit card does not ensure you will spend more. Correlation does not imply causation. OP I would suggest a balanced approach based on research and trial and error. Find things that work for you and make changes when needed. Don't just stick with one specific model or become inflexible. I have found that those who adjust and continue to learn are far more financially literate, confident and successful than those who only follow specific plans created by others.

I read a really good comment about this on GRS recently. Somebody pointed out that it probably is more dependent on how you think about money than anything else.

By that, this person meant that if you think about money as the green pieces of paper - and the more of it you have, the richer you are - then you are probably going to do better with a cash system.

If you think about money as a number on a ledger somewhere, you will probably do better with cards because each transaction is captured electronically.

That's certainly true for me. I think of money as a number on a ledger. I know this is going to sound ridiculous, but I tend to approach any cash I'm carrying as a freebie. If I've taken it out of the ATM, it's already been removed from the ledger in my bank account, and so I already consider it to be gone before I've ever spent it. That's especially true with small bills, because I'm just really unlikely to take the time to go to the bank and deposit $3 or whatever. So if I took out $20 in cash for groceries and only spent $16 of it, I would find a way to spend the other $4. Whereas with a card I will just swipe for $16 and that will be the end of it.

EDIT: Point is, you have to know yourself to find the system that works best.

bmo88 · December 2015

hoffse said:

bmo88 said:

@ brij2006 I would like to see the study too. We use credit cards for everything and pay off at the end of the month. We did a cash system before and it didn't save us any money, but was more of a pain in the butt to track. I don't see debit cards as any different than credit cards. If someone is irresponsible then having a credit card won't help and will be worse. But merely using a credit card does not ensure you will spend more. Correlation does not imply causation. OP I would suggest a balanced approach based on research and trial and error. Find things that work for you and make changes when needed. Don't just stick with one specific model or become inflexible. I have found that those who adjust and continue to learn are far more financially literate, confident and successful than those who only follow specific plans created by others.

I read a really good comment about this on GRS recently. Somebody pointed out that it probably is more dependent on how you think about money than anything else.

By that, this person meant that if you think about money as the green pieces of paper - and the more of it you have, the richer you are - then you are probably going to do better with a cash system.

If you think about money as a number on a ledger somewhere, you will probably do better with cards because each transaction is captured electronically.

That's certainly true for me. I think of money as a number on a ledger. I know this is going to sound ridiculous, but I tend to approach any cash I'm carrying as a freebie. If I've taken it out of the ATM, it's already been removed from the ledger in my bank account, and so I already consider it to be gone before I've ever spent it. That's especially true with small bills, because I'm just really unlikely to take the time to go to the bank and deposit $3 or whatever. So if I took out $20 in cash for groceries and only spent $16 of it, I would find a way to spend the other $4. Whereas with a card I will just swipe for $16 and that will be the end of it.

EDIT: Point is, you have to know yourself to find the system that works best.

I actually see cash the same way. I only ever carry up to $20-$40 in cash at any given time. I don't even "account" for it in our finances. I only spend it if a place doesn't take a card or if for someone reason cash is easier. But it is like a freebie because it's been accounted for. I do think of money as numbers on a ledger. My job requires I deal with finances all day and a lot of it isn't "real time." So I do projections on expenses, look backs and try to run scenarios. So tracking things on a sheet is what seems real.

The downside to managing a $8.5 million budget though is sometimes I get in the habit of thinking "Oh, $1,500 isn't that much money" because I am cutting checks and making purchases in the $30,000-$500,000 range daily. Luckily it hasn't had a real affect on my personal spending, but I do have to "slap myself in the face" sometimes and think about it.

brij2006 · December 2015

Here's one of the studies done by Forbes about holiday shopping with a credit card.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/moneybuilder/2011/11/03/credit-card-tips-for-holiday-shopping-2/

Here's the one from NerdWallet, but that's just a blog.

https://www.nerdwallet.com/blog/credit-cards/credit-cards-make-you-spend-more/

Obviously I know that there are responsible credit card users. That isn't the point. Yes, people can be responsible with them. But we all know that those people are a very small percentage of the credit card user. If credit works for you, then that's your choice. I am just giving the other side of the spectrum. Credit worked for us. We never carried a balance on a credit card. I would subtract each CC transaction from our check register, and at the end of the month transfer that amount toward the CC to pay it off. We racked up thousands of points each year by doing so.

But I found that we were spending more at places than we normally would have had we used cash to do so. We did a trial 3 months of not using credit for any transactions. Solely debit and cash. It was eyeopening. We didn't overspend with credit, but it felt differently knowing that amount came directly out of our checking account, or from the cash in my wallet. We also found ourselves shopping around more, because we weren't buying stuff from places that gave us the most points.

Again, credit is a personal decision. For OP who has never had a bank account and has only used cash, I would recommend not using a credit card for now. Just so she can get the hang of using a checking account and debit card. Once she gets the hang of that, then maybe use the card if she really wants to. But there's no purpose to (IMHO). Why make it more complex than it needs to be?

brij2006 · December 2015

FWIW, we actually rarely have cash on us. We use our debit cards for everything. It's just easier for us to be able to track every transaction and place them into our budget categories. I find cash actually more difficult to keep track of.

simplyelise · December 2015

bmo88 said:

hoffse said:

bmo88 said:

@ brij2006 I would like to see the study too. We use credit cards for everything and pay off at the end of the month. We did a cash system before and it didn't save us any money, but was more of a pain in the butt to track. I don't see debit cards as any different than credit cards. If someone is irresponsible then having a credit card won't help and will be worse. But merely using a credit card does not ensure you will spend more. Correlation does not imply causation. OP I would suggest a balanced approach based on research and trial and error. Find things that work for you and make changes when needed. Don't just stick with one specific model or become inflexible. I have found that those who adjust and continue to learn are far more financially literate, confident and successful than those who only follow specific plans created by others.

I read a really good comment about this on GRS recently. Somebody pointed out that it probably is more dependent on how you think about money than anything else.

By that, this person meant that if you think about money as the green pieces of paper - and the more of it you have, the richer you are - then you are probably going to do better with a cash system.

If you think about money as a number on a ledger somewhere, you will probably do better with cards because each transaction is captured electronically.

That's certainly true for me. I think of money as a number on a ledger. I know this is going to sound ridiculous, but I tend to approach any cash I'm carrying as a freebie. If I've taken it out of the ATM, it's already been removed from the ledger in my bank account, and so I already consider it to be gone before I've ever spent it. That's especially true with small bills, because I'm just really unlikely to take the time to go to the bank and deposit $3 or whatever. So if I took out $20 in cash for groceries and only spent $16 of it, I would find a way to spend the other $4. Whereas with a card I will just swipe for $16 and that will be the end of it.

EDIT: Point is, you have to know yourself to find the system that works best.

I actually see cash the same way. I only ever carry up to $20-$40 in cash at any given time. I don't even "account" for it in our finances. I only spend it if a place doesn't take a card or if for someone reason cash is easier. But it is like a freebie because it's been accounted for. I do think of money as numbers on a ledger. My job requires I deal with finances all day and a lot of it isn't "real time." So I do projections on expenses, look backs and try to run scenarios. So tracking things on a sheet is what seems real.

The downside to managing a $8.5 million budget though is sometimes I get in the habit of thinking "Oh, $1,500 isn't that much money" because I am cutting checks and making purchases in the $30,000-$500,000 range daily. Luckily it hasn't had a real affect on my personal spending, but I do have to "slap myself in the face" sometimes and think about it.

I used to be exactly the same way. If i had cash in my wallet, it was already "spent" out of the account, so I didn't worry about spending it. But these days, our only spending money is in cash, so I've really changed how I feel about it. Still, I don't think my habits on our cash items (fun money) is any different from my habits on our closely tracked other purchases (groceries, date night, and toiletries mostly).

This forum is not a representative group of typical money users though! I sometimes have to take a break from the board because I get so focused on smart financial decisions (even ones that are of a different philosophy from us) that it's hard to be quiet when people IRL start openly talking about their questionable financial decisions. I have to keep repeating to myself that they're not asking for advice! So in the general population, I can totally see how a good chunk of people would spend more freely with credit cards.

OH! I had a Kohl's credit card for about 6 months and although I did pay it off every month, the constant barrage of 20% off coupons that they sent definitely brought me into the store more often than I would have otherwise. So from that perspective, I was totally spending more money at Kohl's (but look how much I saved!) than I spent before/after I had the card.

brij2006 · December 2015

simplyelise said:

bmo88 said:

hoffse said:

bmo88 said:

@ brij2006 I would like to see the study too. We use credit cards for everything and pay off at the end of the month. We did a cash system before and it didn't save us any money, but was more of a pain in the butt to track. I don't see debit cards as any different than credit cards. If someone is irresponsible then having a credit card won't help and will be worse. But merely using a credit card does not ensure you will spend more. Correlation does not imply causation. OP I would suggest a balanced approach based on research and trial and error. Find things that work for you and make changes when needed. Don't just stick with one specific model or become inflexible. I have found that those who adjust and continue to learn are far more financially literate, confident and successful than those who only follow specific plans created by others.

I read a really good comment about this on GRS recently. Somebody pointed out that it probably is more dependent on how you think about money than anything else.

By that, this person meant that if you think about money as the green pieces of paper - and the more of it you have, the richer you are - then you are probably going to do better with a cash system.

If you think about money as a number on a ledger somewhere, you will probably do better with cards because each transaction is captured electronically.

That's certainly true for me. I think of money as a number on a ledger. I know this is going to sound ridiculous, but I tend to approach any cash I'm carrying as a freebie. If I've taken it out of the ATM, it's already been removed from the ledger in my bank account, and so I already consider it to be gone before I've ever spent it. That's especially true with small bills, because I'm just really unlikely to take the time to go to the bank and deposit $3 or whatever. So if I took out $20 in cash for groceries and only spent $16 of it, I would find a way to spend the other $4. Whereas with a card I will just swipe for $16 and that will be the end of it.

EDIT: Point is, you have to know yourself to find the system that works best.

I actually see cash the same way. I only ever carry up to $20-$40 in cash at any given time. I don't even "account" for it in our finances. I only spend it if a place doesn't take a card or if for someone reason cash is easier. But it is like a freebie because it's been accounted for. I do think of money as numbers on a ledger. My job requires I deal with finances all day and a lot of it isn't "real time." So I do projections on expenses, look backs and try to run scenarios. So tracking things on a sheet is what seems real.

The downside to managing a $8.5 million budget though is sometimes I get in the habit of thinking "Oh, $1,500 isn't that much money" because I am cutting checks and making purchases in the $30,000-$500,000 range daily. Luckily it hasn't had a real affect on my personal spending, but I do have to "slap myself in the face" sometimes and think about it.

I used to be exactly the same way. If i had cash in my wallet, it was already "spent" out of the account, so I didn't worry about spending it. But these days, our only spending money is in cash, so I've really changed how I feel about it. Still, I don't think my habits on our cash items (fun money) is any different from my habits on our closely tracked other purchases (groceries, date night, and toiletries mostly).

This forum is not a representative group of typical money users though! I sometimes have to take a break from the board because I get so focused on smart financial decisions (even ones that are of a different philosophy from us) that it's hard to be quiet when people IRL start openly talking about their questionable financial decisions. I have to keep repeating to myself that they're not asking for advice! So in the general population, I can totally see how a good chunk of people would spend more freely with credit cards.

OH! I had a Kohl's credit card for about 6 months and although I did pay it off every month, the constant barrage of 20% off coupons that they sent definitely brought me into the store more often than I would have otherwise. So from that perspective, I was totally spending more money at Kohl's (but look how much I saved!) than I spent before/after I had the card.

I had to unsubscribe to all of the store e-mails. That temptation was too much. I would tell H "I saved 70%!" His response was always, "you do realize 70% off of $0 is still $0?" Meaning that if I hadn't gone in there because I had a coupon, I wouldn't have spent any money at all and my savings would have been even larger. It's amazing at how much less I spend now that I don't receive coupons to places.

julieanne912 · December 2015

I too only use my debit card, rarely have cash.

I think this comes down to knowing yourself and your habits. For me, I kept using credit cards as a "back up". This month I'm really struggling financially due to some overspending last month and some pop up expenses I wasn't planning for. Like, I'm down to about $60 to last me through payday, which is in another week. In the past, if I came across a good sale or didn't want to put off purchasing something, I'd just put it on a credit card with the intention of paying it off when the next paycheck came. And, many times I was able to do that, especially back in the day when I made a very good income. But the good times didn't last.

I've mentioned previously that I had a BK a bit over a year ago. At this point I could get a new CC with a high interest rate. But, I don't trust myself to not fall back into old habits so I'm sticking to a cash only basis. So basically, not having credit cards is my own way of retraining myself to think differently with my money.

I think this is the way much of the general population behaves with credit cards too. Everyone here needs to remember that most posters here have very good money habits... not quite an accurate sample of the population, like Elise mentioned.

abrewer5 · December 2015

julieanne912 said:

I too only use my debit card, rarely have cash.

I think this comes down to knowing yourself and your habits. For me, I kept using credit cards as a "back up". This month I'm really struggling financially due to some overspending last month and some pop up expenses I wasn't planning for. Like, I'm down to about $60 to last me through payday, which is in another week. In the past, if I came across a good sale or didn't want to put off purchasing something, I'd just put it on a credit card with the intention of paying it off when the next paycheck came. And, many times I was able to do that, especially back in the day when I made a very good income. But the good times didn't last.

I've mentioned previously that I had a BK a bit over a year ago. At this point I could get a new CC with a high interest rate. But, I don't trust myself to not fall back into old habits so I'm sticking to a cash only basis. So basically, not having credit cards is my own way of retraining myself to think differently with my money.

I think this is the way much of the general population behaves with credit cards too. Everyone here needs to remember that most posters here have very good money habits... not quite an accurate sample of the population, like Elise mentioned.

I would 100% agree with this because I am exactly this way. If I find that run short between paychecks I'll put it on a card, is it necessary?? Not always. And all it does it put me further behind the next paycheck. So I would agree with everyone that says unless you know you can control your spending and absolutely will not over spend I wouldn't use the card.

If you want to test it out try with something like gas, and only put gas on there for a few months. If you find that works for you and you haven't used it for anything else then gradually increase what you use it for. But I wouldn't start out by putting everything on there.

Good luck! I'm 25 so I understand you desire to budget and get your life on track early. I wish I was better at sticking the budget I set, but I'm trying to learn.

dragonstarjk · December 2015

simplyelise said:

bmo88 said:

hoffse said:

bmo88 said:

@ brij2006 I would like to see the study too. We use credit cards for everything and pay off at the end of the month. We did a cash system before and it didn't save us any money, but was more of a pain in the butt to track. I don't see debit cards as any different than credit cards. If someone is irresponsible then having a credit card won't help and will be worse. But merely using a credit card does not ensure you will spend more. Correlation does not imply causation. OP I would suggest a balanced approach based on research and trial and error. Find things that work for you and make changes when needed. Don't just stick with one specific model or become inflexible. I have found that those who adjust and continue to learn are far more financially literate, confident and successful than those who only follow specific plans created by others.

I read a really good comment about this on GRS recently. Somebody pointed out that it probably is more dependent on how you think about money than anything else.

By that, this person meant that if you think about money as the green pieces of paper - and the more of it you have, the richer you are - then you are probably going to do better with a cash system.

If you think about money as a number on a ledger somewhere, you will probably do better with cards because each transaction is captured electronically.

That's certainly true for me. I think of money as a number on a ledger. I know this is going to sound ridiculous, but I tend to approach any cash I'm carrying as a freebie. If I've taken it out of the ATM, it's already been removed from the ledger in my bank account, and so I already consider it to be gone before I've ever spent it. That's especially true with small bills, because I'm just really unlikely to take the time to go to the bank and deposit $3 or whatever. So if I took out $20 in cash for groceries and only spent $16 of it, I would find a way to spend the other $4. Whereas with a card I will just swipe for $16 and that will be the end of it.

EDIT: Point is, you have to know yourself to find the system that works best.

I actually see cash the same way. I only ever carry up to $20-$40 in cash at any given time. I don't even "account" for it in our finances. I only spend it if a place doesn't take a card or if for someone reason cash is easier. But it is like a freebie because it's been accounted for. I do think of money as numbers on a ledger. My job requires I deal with finances all day and a lot of it isn't "real time." So I do projections on expenses, look backs and try to run scenarios. So tracking things on a sheet is what seems real.

The downside to managing a $8.5 million budget though is sometimes I get in the habit of thinking "Oh, $1,500 isn't that much money" because I am cutting checks and making purchases in the $30,000-$500,000 range daily. Luckily it hasn't had a real affect on my personal spending, but I do have to "slap myself in the face" sometimes and think about it.

I used to be exactly the same way. If i had cash in my wallet, it was already "spent" out of the account, so I didn't worry about spending it. But these days, our only spending money is in cash, so I've really changed how I feel about it. Still, I don't think my habits on our cash items (fun money) is any different from my habits on our closely tracked other purchases (groceries, date night, and toiletries mostly).

This forum is not a representative group of typical money users though! I sometimes have to take a break from the board because I get so focused on smart financial decisions (even ones that are of a different philosophy from us) that it's hard to be quiet when people IRL start openly talking about their questionable financial decisions. I have to keep repeating to myself that they're not asking for advice! So in the general population, I can totally see how a good chunk of people would spend more freely with credit cards.

OH! I had a Kohl's credit card for about 6 months and although I did pay it off every month, the constant barrage of 20% off coupons that they sent definitely brought me into the store more often than I would have otherwise. So from that perspective, I was totally spending more money at Kohl's (but look how much I saved!) than I spent before/after I had the card.

So true, I find myself doing the same thing.

short+sassy · December 2015

Welcome to the board! I admire you for taking charge of your budget at a relatively early age. I'll admit, I really didn't pay that much attention to my money until I started thinking about buying a house, which was about 6 years ago and I was in my mid 30s. I would be WAY better off if I'd started 10 years sooner than that.

1. would you all recommend a seperate account for savings/emergency fund or lump it into 1 account.

I don't keep mine separate, but its personal preference.

2. would you recommend a seperate checking account for Bills or use one account? Right now i do not have a bank account at all will open one on friday)

I prefer keeping as few accounts as possible, though I fail at that and have way too many for a variety of reasons, lol. But this is also personal preference.

3. what do you all use for budgeting? spread sheets, aps, or good ole pen and paper?

I use an Excel spreadsheet. It's just easiest for me because it is so simple. But certainly a lot of PPs prefer apps. I know I'm a dinosaur, but apps just irritate me and I try to keep as few as possible.

4. what things should be included in a budget

Everything! Every bill, fun money, entertaining...up to and including monies going to a 401K or other retirement, savings, etc.

5. should i do a budget monthly or for the full year

For you, I would start with monthly. I personally budget out for 2-3 months at a time, but will make changes as things adjust. Every once in awhile, I'll carry out how long it will take me to pay off my Home Equity Line of Credit (HELOC) if I devote my extra income to that. That's the only debt I'm focused on paying off as fast as possible.

6. i do have one credit card with a 15,000.00 limit with a zero balance. Would you all recommend paying for everything with credit card or cash?

Like a lot of other PPs have mentioned, while its great to pay for as much as you can with a CC in order to get points, its only great if you are disciplined enough to pay the balance in full every month. One month of interest and you'll way more than blow away whatever extra goodness you got from points. Or if you find yourself overspending.

Perhaps try paying with a CC for points for just a few purchases each month. See what your "money personality" is for that.

7. how much liquid cash do you all have in a checking account, savings account, and efund?- right now i have 0.00 in all 3- trying to figure out the types of accounts i should open

At the moment, I only keep around a $1,000 efund and $100-$500 in a variety of checking accounts. Really not enough in a crisis, but I do have multiple sources of income. Plus, I'd rather put extra money toward paying down my HELOC, which is also easily accessible money if an emergency comes up. Not perfect, because there's still 4.5% interest, but to me it is still better to pay the balance down than keep the same money in a savings account earning almost no interest...for a big emergency that may not come for months or years.

short+sassy · December 2015

On the subject of credit cards not feeling like "real" money for some people, so making it easier to use the card. I've always felt that casinos use this same principle very advantageously.

For a place that revolves around money, there is no cash to be seen unless a person is first sitting at a table or machine. Cash is converted into chips. Of course, chips equal cash, but it does not feel the same as throwing down a $20 bill for each hand of blackjack.

The machines automatically convert money to "credits". Although a player can change that option to show as currency instead, it is not the default. And machines no longer pay cash, they pay out slips of paper that can be exchanged for cash...or just take that slip of paper that looks nothing like money and slide it right into the next machine . Devious I tell you, lol!

Erikan73 · December 2015

1. would you all recommend a seperate account for savings/emergency fund or lump it into 1 account I would recommend a separate account because then it's easier to forget that you have the money and it's there when you need it. I know for myself, if I saw it in my checking account, I might be more likely to spend it
2. would you recommend a seperate checking account for Bills or use one account? Right now i do not have a bank account at all will open one on friday) I think this depends on your personal spending habits. I know for my husband, he's better off having his personal spending money that he doesn't have to account for in one account and then all the money that goes for our bills goes into our joint account. When the money in his one checking account is gone, he's done with eating out lunches or whatever he does with his personal money
3. what do you all use for budgeting? spread sheets, aps, or good ole pen and paper? I use Goodbudget which is available online or through an app. I sit down the same day of the week every week (usually wed. during my lunch hour) and do my bills and update my budget. I tried several other methods. And be open to trying different ways. Don't get discouraged if you try one way of tracking and it doesn't work. Just try another way. It's a matter of finding a method that works best for you.
4. what things should be included in a budget Any regular expenses like gas, car insurance, car payments, license plate tags, hair cuts, cell phone, emergency fund, any memberships/subscriptions, basically anything that you that repeat
5. should i do a budget monthly or for the full year I do monthly and for expenses that only come up once a year, like my license plate tags, I take the annual expense and divide it by 12 and put away that amount each month so when I have to renew the tags, I don't take a big hit that one month. It's easier on my budget to put the $10.00 a month away (we have two cars where the tags are up the same month)
6. i do have one credit card with a 15,000.00 limit with a zero balance. Would you all recommend paying for everything with credit card or cash? If you know you will be good about paying it off in full and it has a rewards program on it that you will use, then use your credit card. Like I use to shop a lot at LLBean so I got their card for the free shipping & free returns and to earn LLBean bucks to get free stuff from them. But if you don't trust yourself to stick to your budget when you use it and pay it off every month, use cash and/or debit card.
7. how much liquid cash do you all have in a checking account, savings account, and efund?- right now i have 0.00 in all 3- trying to figure out the types of accounts i should open
8. if you all have 2016 budgets prepared please share with me I'll try to post this later for you

Good luck!!

littlemushroom · December 2015

We just started to get really serious about budgeting and tracking where all our money goes. My H and I are still in our learning curve for what will work best for us, but this is what we are doing now.

1. would you all recommend a seperate account for savings/emergency fund or lump it into 1 account We have one checking account and several different savings accounts for house, vacation, car, and miscellaneous. Our efund is split between the checking account and the house savings account.

2. would you recommend a seperate checking account for Bills or use one account? Right now i do not have a bank account at all will open one on friday) I would only have one checking account and use that for everything.

3. what do you all use for budgeting? spread sheets, aps, or good ole pen and paper? We have an excel spreadsheet that we used to figure out how much money goes to our joint checking, joint savings, and our own individual accounts. That will only be updated when our salaries change or we have a major change in living expenses (like we just bought a house, so we updated it for that). For the month to month budget and tracking expenses/income, we use the app Home Budget Manager (which has a cost, but I got for free as an app of the day through the Amazon app store). This lets me add in anything we spend as soon as we do it, rather than keeping track some other way and entering everything in a spreadsheet at home. My husband texts me when he makes a purchase that I am not there for so I can get it added immediately. It also lets me allocate purchases to our different "accounts" that it is coming from like our credit card, checking account, cash on hand, etc.

4. what things should be included in a budget As everyone said, everything you can think of that you would spend money on or allocate money to...mortgage/rent, utilities, groceries, fun money, insurance, debt payments, savings amounts, household expenses, gas, etc

5. should i do a budget monthly or for the full year We do monthly because that is what I could figure out how to do. I can't imagine ever planning a year out.

6. i do have one credit card with a 15,000.00 limit with a zero balance. Would you all recommend paying for everything with credit card or cash? Again, as others said it depends on how you use it. We just switched from using our debit cards for everything to using a credit card with cash back bonuses for everything. But we will pay off the credit card each month and our spending habits don't change just because it is credit (we don't buy anything that we don't already have the money in our account to cover, and we don't spend more just for the bonus). If you don't think you will be able to keep your spending in check, then just keep using cash.

7. how much liquid cash do you all have in a checking account, savings account, and efund?- right now i have 0.00 in all 3- trying to figure out the types of accounts i should open Across all of our accounts (joint and individual), probably 30k. Joint accounts, which is what we use for pretty much everything is around 10k. We are actively saving up for eventual house necessities that we want to pay for in cash, like a new roof, though. We keep a buffer of $3000 in checking as part of our efund (we basically look at our account as having a balance of 0 when we hit that 3k mark and do not spend below that).

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